SANFL's 10th Team

[CENTURION]

why does he need to go to Wilpena Pound?

[RB]

I still don't think there is the interest or the money in SANFL to support more than 8 teams, or that there ever was...

Average crowd in 1972 in a 10 team league was 10,000.

[holden78]

Pissing the AFL back across the border is the best option.

I think a mentality like this says a lot about whats wrong with the sanfl.

Take afl away and its associated revenue away and the sanfl is screwed. Minimal sponsorship, no tv revenue.... it doesnt get close to generating the revenue it needs to stay afloat.... it relies on afl generated income.

Afl as a whole is profitable.... even if some clubs are not.

Dream On!
Any real $ input the AFL puts into the SANFL is to prop up the broke Port Flowers and junior development/regional footy.
But it's the SANFL that provides the pathway for lads to go onto the AFL in this state.
Your mob got Wingard from Sturt last year and would have loved to have taken Toumpas this year from the Eagles, so don't give me this crap..... most of our clubs here are at least breaking even financially most of the time, in tough times, and part own assets at West Lakes!!!

[SDK]

Well said Holden78 it is the SANFL who develops players into the AFL here NOT the AFL, they do very little apart from pulling funds when they don't get their way.

[beenreal]

Pissing the AFL back across the border is the best option.

I think a mentality like this says a lot about whats wrong with the sanfl.

Take afl away and its associated revenue away and the sanfl is screwed. Minimal sponsorship, no tv revenue.... it doesnt get close to generating the revenue it needs to stay afloat.... it relies on afl generated income.

Afl as a whole is profitable.... even if some clubs are not.

Dream On!
Any real $ input the AFL puts into the SANFL is to prop up the broke Port Flowers and junior development/regional footy.
But it's the SANFL that provides the pathway for lads to go onto the AFL in this state.
Your mob got Wingard from Sturt last year and would have loved to have taken Toumpas this year from the Eagles, so don't give me this crap..... most of our clubs here are at least breaking even financially most of the time, in tough times, and part own assets at West Lakes!!!

Take the blinkers off. 2012 has been the first decent intake from the SANFL in years.

TAC Cup anyone?

[MightyEagles]

I didn't know that the TAC Cup was a SANFL competition. He is talking about those from this state, not from victoria. The Eagles are the best in the country for getting young players up in to league and the AFL and that is fact.

[TimmiesChin]

Well said Holden78 it is the SANFL who develops players into the AFL here NOT the AFL, they do very little apart from pulling funds when they don't get their way.

Lets not be naive. I reckon a fair bit of the development in players is done Monday to friday during the umpteem training/weights/skills sessions.

I agree SANFL clubs play an important part, but don't mistake yourself for thinking SANFL clubs are what makes or breaks players (Sydneys setup is a perfect example of this where the competition their seconds play in is rather average to say the least).
Just like AFL clubs selecting the talented kids from SANFL clubs, SANFL clubs do exactly the same thing from feeder metro/country clubs.

The pathway of talented kids, is regional/metro clubs, to SANFL underage/senior lists to AFL draft. Development goes into them at every level, with the amount of enery put into them increasing as they progress through levels.

[TimmiesChin]

Dream On!
Any real $ input the AFL puts into the SANFL is to prop up the broke Port Flowers and junior development/regional footy.

Where did I mention direct AFL $. I was talking about $ generated by the SANFL from AFL games at AAMI and associated second string revenue streams.

If as you say the AFL is putting money into junior/regional footy, then this is helping you as the career pathway begins in these clubs and feeds through to you, and then potentially further on to AFL.

[UK Fan]

Well said Holden78 it is the SANFL who develops players into the AFL here NOT the AFL, they do very little apart from pulling funds when they don't get their way.

Lets not be naive. I reckon a fair bit of the development in players is done Monday to friday during the umpteem training/weights/skills sessions.

I agree SANFL clubs play an important part, but don't mistake yourself for thinking SANFL clubs are what makes or breaks players (Sydneys setup is a perfect example of this where the competition their seconds play in is rather average to say the least).
Just like AFL clubs selecting the talented kids from SANFL clubs, SANFL clubs do exactly the same thing from feeder metro/country clubs.

The pathway of talented kids, is regional/metro clubs, to SANFL underage/senior lists to AFL draft. Development goes into them at every level, with the amount of enery put into them increasing as they progress through levels.

So Sa draftee numbers are comparable to NSW draft numbers. And SA has a scholarship system allowing under developed kids can still be placed on afl lists.

Cos if not you know what you are talking again Timmy.

[TimmiesChin]

Lets not be naive. I reckon a fair bit of the development in players is done Monday to friday during the umpteem training/weights/skills sessions.

I agree SANFL clubs play an important part, but don't mistake yourself for thinking SANFL clubs are what makes or breaks players (Sydneys setup is a perfect example of this where the competition their seconds play in is rather average to say the least).
Just like AFL clubs selecting the talented kids from SANFL clubs, SANFL clubs do exactly the same thing from feeder metro/country clubs.

The pathway of talented kids, is regional/metro clubs, to SANFL underage/senior lists to AFL draft. Development goes into them at every level, with the amount of enery put into them increasing as they progress through levels.

So Sa draftee numbers are comparable to NSW draft numbers. And SA has a scholarship system allowing under developed kids can still be placed on afl lists.

Cos if not you know what you are talking again Timmy.

I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make here - your post is unclear and all over the place.

I'm going to guess you are saying that because more kids are drafted from SA, this proves the SANFL clubs develop them better than NSW system ?

If that's the case its obviously incorrect, SA produces more draftees because more kids play football, more kids playing football means more kids of quality filtering into SANFL systems to be further developed.

[UK Fan]

And I'm assuming you have stats that will confirm state draft rates and state participation have a correlation ???? I wonder why not many wa juniors werent drafted this year in comparison to previous years. Must have nothing to do with quality they must have lost junior teams.

So Timmy you believe afl has wasted money on port magpies developement funding for the last 20 years. As port magpies contributes nothing to the developement of footballers in its area. The just reap the rewards of a high quantity of juniors.

With theories like above it makes you realise why port Adelaide are so far behind the 8 ball on and off the field with other clubs IMHO.

[TimmiesChin]

And I'm assuming you have stats that will confirm state draft rates and state participation have a correlation ????

According to stats on another site, between the 2000 and 2011 AFL drafts, 187 South Australian players were drafted (including rookie drafts), 40 from NSW during this period.

I wonder why not many wa juniors werent drafted this year in comparison to previous years. Must have nothing to do with quality they must have lost junior teams.

So you're using a sample set of one season...... that's an interesting way of doing things. What is obvious from stats is players are more likely to make it to AFL level if they come from a traditional AFL state than the rugby states (by a big margin).

So Timmy you believe afl has wasted money on port magpies developement funding for the last 20 years. As port magpies contributes nothing to the developement of footballers in its area. The just reap the rewards of a high quantity of juniors.

With theories like above it makes you realise why port Adelaide are so far behind the 8 ball on and off the field with other clubs IMHO.

Where have I said anything of the sort. I was using exactly the same theory that suggest NSW will produce more test cricketers than South Australia. They have more to pull from.... it doesn't mean they are better at developing test cricketers.

Compare South Australian draft rates with Vic/WA/Tas and they are all 'comparable' while NSW/QLD are below ... in large this is because of the amount of participation in the Sport.

I've never said AFL wastes money on development in SA - in fact I've said they play an important part in the development part..... just that they are not the most importnat part:

Remember this statement that I made:
"I agree SANFL clubs play an important part, but don't mistake yourself for thinking SANFL clubs are what makes or breaks players (Sydneys setup is a perfect example of this where the competition their seconds play in is rather average to say the least)."

You want good development at all levels, however the process is one where the best at lower levels bubble up to SANFL and so forth..... whereas the funding bubbles down in one way or another - either directly or indirectly.

The role of the SANFL clubs in U18 players is VITAL, however I was referring to a comment from SDK saying that " it is the SANFL who develops players into the AFL here NOT the AFL". At the time I read this to be referring to already drafted AFL players playing back at SANFL clubs..... hence my comments. When talking kids pre-drafting then yes the SANFL club role is massive.

AFL needs SANFL, and vice versa.

Anyway enough if this.

[UK Fan]

And I'm assuming you have stats that will confirm state draft rates and state participation have a correlation ????

According to stats on another site, between the 2000 and 2011 AFL drafts, 187 South Australian players were drafted (including rookie drafts), 40 from NSW during this period.

I wonder why not many wa juniors werent drafted this year in comparison to previous years. Must have nothing to do with quality they must have lost junior teams.

So you're using a sample set of one season...... that's an interesting way of doing things. What is obvious from stats is players are more likely to make it to AFL level if they come from a traditional AFL state than the rugby states (by a big margin).

So Timmy you believe afl has wasted money on port magpies developement funding for the last 20 years. As port magpies contributes nothing to the developement of footballers in its area. The just reap the rewards of a high quantity of juniors.

With theories like above it makes you realise why port Adelaide are so far behind the 8 ball on and off the field with other clubs IMHO.

Where have I said anything of the sort. I was using exactly the same theory that suggest NSW will produce more test cricketers than South Australia. They have more to pull from.... it doesn't mean they are better at developing test cricketers.

Compare South Australian draft rates with Vic/WA/Tas and they are all 'comparable' while NSW/QLD are below ... in large this is because of the amount of participation in the Sport.

I've never said AFL wastes money on development in SA - in fact I've said they play an important part in the development part..... just that they are not the most importnat part:

Remember this statement that I made:
"I agree SANFL clubs play an important part, but don't mistake yourself for thinking SANFL clubs are what makes or breaks players (Sydneys setup is a perfect example of this where the competition their seconds play in is rather average to say the least)."

You want good development at all levels, however the process is one where the best at lower levels bubble up to SANFL and so forth..... whereas the funding bubbles down in one way or another - either directly or indirectly.

The role of the SANFL clubs in U18 players is VITAL, however I was referring to a comment from SDK saying that " it is the SANFL who develops players into the AFL here NOT the AFL". At the time I read this to be referring to already drafted AFL players playing back at SANFL clubs..... hence my comments. When talking kids pre-drafting then yes the SANFL club role is massive.

AFL needs SANFL, and vice versa.

Anyway enough if this.

So you read it completely wrong. Thought so.

Its a very Well conceded point you made Timmy .

[TimmiesChin]

\
So you read it completely wrong. Thought so.

Its a very Well conceded point you made Timmy .

While I focused on mature players in SANFL briefly - and hence that part of the argument is redundant, the following is the point I was trying to make:

"The pathway of talented kids, is regional/metro clubs, to SANFL underage/senior lists to AFL draft. Development goes into them at every level, with the amount of energy put into them increasing as they progress through levels."

I'm not sure what part of that is wrong.

[UK Fan]

\
So you read it completely wrong. Thought so.

Its a very Well conceded point you made Timmy .

While I focused on mature players in SANFL briefly - and hence that part of the argument is redundant, the following is the point I was trying to make:

"The pathway of talented kids, is regional/metro clubs, to SANFL underage/senior lists to AFL draft. Development goes into them at every level, with the amount of energy put into them increasing as they progress through levels."

I'm not sure what part of that is wrong.

So regional/metro clubs develope juniors without any assistance from local sanfl clubs.

We just steal them when they get 16-17 and take the glory when drafted.

You learn something new everyday.

[TimmiesChin]

\
So you read it completely wrong. Thought so.

Its a very Well conceded point you made Timmy .

While I focused on mature players in SANFL briefly - and hence that part of the argument is redundant, the following is the point I was trying to make:

"The pathway of talented kids, is regional/metro clubs, to SANFL underage/senior lists to AFL draft. Development goes into them at every level, with the amount of energy put into them increasing as they progress through levels."

I'm not sure what part of that is wrong.

So regional/metro clubs develope juniors without any assistance from local sanfl clubs.

We just steal them when they get 16-17 and take the glory when drafted.

You learn something new everyday.

No... they dont. Players flow up - support flows down (at all levels). Read up a few posts.

[StrayDog]

Also the reason Adelaide is a backwater.

Enduring wisdom from the top end. Go back to sleep.

Get back to the pound.

Truly the George Carlin of SAFooty. Awesome.

Enjoy the plums.

[StrayDog]

I still don't think there is the interest or the money in SANFL to support more than 8 teams, or that there ever was...

Average crowd in 1972 in a 10 team league was 10,000.

I've got an almanac style book "The History of League Football in South Australia" from 1978 that puts 1977's overall attendance at just under 1.1 million for "22 minor, one interstate and six league finals matches". The finals that year attracted about 180,000 which I reckon puts the minor round average at just over 8,000 per match.

For what it's worth, it also goes on to say that "over 60,000 men and boys engaged in competitive football in the State" that year.

Personal opinion only, but I'm not sure the number of sides was ever an issue per say. Just the limitations of geographic expansion in the western side of town where half the sides were already based.

Getting a bit away from the thread topic, Port went a number of years without a flag (until 1977) it was rarely far from the pace after yet another side was shoe-horned into the inner west. West and Torrens came off worst, just exacerbating an "imbalance of success" - for want of a better phrase - that had existed for decades IMO.

Expansion north was sensible, as would have been a similar move south if it had occurred at the time.

[Strawb]

What has occurred in Victoria is a disgrace - effectively pissing on about 140 years of history for some clubs.

The thing I don't understand is that we are constantly told that the AFL is a profitable, thriving powerhouse competition...

So why the **** can't they just run an 18-team seconds comp of their own and leave the state leagues be?

If each AFL list had say 54 players on it that should be sufficient (in fact, it may mean that some blokes don't get a game on a weekend - but that's fine - they are in the system, training 4 times a week, and surely the best approach would be to rotate your seconds players anyway if you have an excess). This gives every AFL team an equal footing in terms of reserve players, and does it without interfering with the integrity of the local competitions (other than obviously weakening them by cherry-picking more of the best talent).

As back up each AFL club could have a "rookie-list" of 4-5 state league based players aged between 17-18 (selected via a draft) who are effectively the cream of the up-and-coming talent across the country (ie, Teal Cup players) and most likely will be elevated to the senior list the following year anyway. An AFL club can call on this list if their senior/reserves player list is ravaged by injuries - but if they are required to call on them, then they pay the originating state-league club a fee - maybe a nominal $5k per game.

If a youngster from a state league is good enough at 17 or 18 to make it to AFL reserves via this method, then that's good for them, and the AFL club can then rightly have some influence over their development, as it's likely they will join that club the following year. If the kid doesn't quite make it, then he returns to his club of origin at season end and plays state league footy again.

well said but the VFA/VFL has always had money issues. Werribee was started in the 1960's and spent most of their life in Div 2 of the VFA. Port Melbourne, Williamstown, Northern Blues, Coburg, and Sandy are really the only clubs from the VFA div 1 glory days. Casey is a moved Springvale that started in the 70-80s, Frankston was always in Div 2. Bendigo and North Ballarat were added to the comp then you have the AFL/VFL clubs.
Geelong take great pride in the VFL and look to win premierships and games. The Geelong Football Club treat the VFL as a chance for kids to lear their trade and play great football to look to play AFL.

[Dog_ger]

AFL-18 teams

VFL-14 teams

SANFL-9 teams

WAFL-9 teams

Can't we all get together and have a truly national format.

There is so much money in footy, share it around more and maybe have a 3 div comp.

Stop players getting $1M a year and be realistic.

Should we get rid of the salary crap..?