The South Australian Political Landscape

[Psyber]

We are over-represented in Parliament too.
When is Isobel going to advise us whether she intends on reducing the amount of MPs that "represent" us?
As has been mentioned, she is probably goneski. Whilst an intelligent lady, she is probably the most naive political leader I've ever known of.

I agree we have too many politicians - state and national.
But the pressure to change that will have to come from outside the parties.

And I agree, sadly, that Isobel may have made one gaff too many...
But I wonder, purely out of curiosity, which way the next polls will move.

[dedja]

And I agree, sadly, that Isobel may have made one gaff too many...

Hang on, it's all a Labor conspiracy, isn't it?

[Psyber]

And I agree, sadly, that Isobel may have made one gaff too many...

Hang on, it's all a Labor conspiracy, isn't it?

No, not a conspiracy, but a strategy.
The constant attention and pressure is part of a campaign to create the fear of getting a Martin Hamilton Smith if you vote Liberal next election.
As I've said here before, one of my one of old school friends, who is an ALP strategist, has said as much, openly.

But, unfortunately, Isobel has blinked and dropped the ball a few times under pressure lately, and this was a big one.
I don't know what will happen, but I do fear the reaction this time may give the ALP what they want.

[fish]

And I agree, sadly, that Isobel may have made one gaff too many...

Hang on, it's all a Labor conspiracy, isn't it?

No, not a conspiracy, but a strategy.
The constant attention and pressure is part of a campaign to create the fear of getting a Martin Hamilton Smith if you vote Liberal next election.
As I've said here before, one of my one of old school friends, who is an ALP strategist, has said as much, openly.

But, unfortunately, Isobel has blinked and dropped the ball a few times under pressure lately, and this was a big one.
I don't know what will happen, but I do fear the reaction this time may give the ALP what they want.

All hail the "state ALP spin machine"!

[dedja]

Izzy faarks up all on her own miles out from an election ... imagine how much more accident prone she'll be in the heat of an election campaign

[bulldogproud2]

Every teacher, nurse, or public service doctor I know believes there are far to many paper shufflers overseeing everything they do.
They also feel the demand for constant form-filling actually takes time away from doing their core job properly.
Teachers in particular have complained about having to submit teaching plans to clerks, forms to justify changing these plans, and reports afterwards to establish that they followed the plans, and if not explaining to clerks why not...

IIRC from the media, in the eastern states it has been stated that it is these people that the aim is to cut, along with those in propaganda departments.

On the contrary, there are far too few administrative staff in education and this is why we have to fill in so many forms, send in so much for moderation etc.
In days gone by, we had visits from moderators which negated half of the workload we now have to do re filling in forms, sending in work etc. Today, with the fact there are so few administrative staff, we have to do it all as paperwork and send it in to SACE ourselves.
Cheers

[Psyber]

Every teacher, nurse, or public service doctor I know believes there are far to many paper shufflers overseeing everything they do.
They also feel the demand for constant form-filling actually takes time away from doing their core job properly.
Teachers in particular have complained about having to submit teaching plans to clerks, forms to justify changing these plans, and reports afterwards to establish that they followed the plans, and if not explaining to clerks why not...

IIRC from the media, in the eastern states it has been stated that it is these people that the aim is to cut, along with those in propaganda departments.

On the contrary, there are far too few administrative staff in education and this is why we have to fill in so many forms, send in so much for moderation etc.
In days gone by, we had visits from moderators which negated half of the workload we now have to do re filling in forms, sending in work etc. Today, with the fact there are so few administrative staff, we have to do it all as paperwork and send it in to SACE ourselves.
Cheers

I've never taught anyone but postgraduate students myself.
So, forgive me if I don't understand something you think is obvious.

Why shouldn't teachers just behave like professionals and simply teach, as other professionals just do their job to the best of their ability?
Why does all this stuff have to go to SACE?

I know the health bureaucracy wants to have clerks supervising doctors too, but I assumed that was something to do with growing the public service because your grading, and hence salary, there has historically depended on how many you have working under you.
(Or has that changed since my wife quit her managerial position in DSS - now DHS I believe - some years ago?)

[bulldogproud2]

Psyber, the reason why we have to have our work moderated is to ensure that there is statewide parity between the work set by all classes and also the grades awarded. As the vast majority of work at Year 11 and 12 is now internally assessed, it is important that the work of all students is compared so that teachers who are 'softer markers' do not incorrectly reward their students and teachers who are 'harder markers' do not have their students penalised as a result.
Assessments need to be evaluated right throughout the state in each subject.
Cheers

[smac]

So there is no waste or inefficiency in the Education Dept?

Respectfully, bullshit!

[bulldogproud2]

So there is no waste or inefficiency in the Education Dept?

Respectfully, bullshit!

That was never said, Smac, respectfully. There would be inefficiences in any organisation, private or public.
However, there are not 25 000 to 35 000 people in the Education Department who could be made redundant and have it operate effectively.
Rather, it would be wonderful to have more moderators made available so that the paperwork of teachers in schools can be reduced. We already work 60-70 hour weeks on average.

[gossipgirl]

So there is no waste or inefficiency in the Education Dept?

Respectfully, bullshit!

That was never said, Smac, respectfully. There would be inefficiences in any organisation, private or public.
However, there are not 25 000 to 35 000 people in the Education Department who could be made redundant and have it operate effectively.
Rather, it would be wonderful to have more moderators made available so that the paperwork of teachers in schools can be reduced. We already work 60-70 hour weeks on average.

I'd like to see that !!!!

[bulldogproud2]

Well, I have certainly averaged 75 hours per week myself personally.
During the two week 'holiday' period coming up, I will still be at school for 60 hours helping the Year 12s get ready for their examinations and completing their final assignments.
Most Year 12 teachers at my College are doing the same.
Cheers

[Psyber]

I suspect this is a fundamental issue affecting the quality of education, and the bureaucracy burden in the field:
"As the vast majority of work at Year 11 and 12 is now internally assessed..."

Then, I thought introducing continuous assessment instead of independent examinations at the end of the year dumbed down Universities and turned everyone into plodders, tied down with constant papers and deprived of time to think and correlate learning creatively. (I admit my age shows here - that all happened long ago.)

Most specialist medical colleges still require submitted case reports at the end of at least three years training, before you are allowed to sit for the examinations.
If you pass them, there are then several vivas over two or three days.

[bulldogproud2]

I suspect this is a fundamental issue affecting the quality of education, and the bureaucracy burden in the field:
"As the vast majority of work at Year 11 and 12 is now internally assessed..."

Then, I thought introducing continuous assessment instead of independent examinations at the end of the year dumbed down Universities and turned everyone into plodders, tied down with constant papers and deprived of time to think and correlate learning creatively. (I admit my age shows here - that all happened long ago.)

Most specialist medical colleges still require submitted case reports at the end of at least three years training, before you are allowed to sit for the examinations.
If you pass them, there are then several vivas over two or three days.

Continuing assessment is actually a way of improving the education of students. The days of 'rote learning' and just cramming at the end for examinations certainly was not the best way of producing quality students who could think for themselves. At least now, students are required to think for themselves a lot more and are far more skilled at research and analysis.
What has probably 'dumbed down' education, if anything, is the retention rate. With the vast majority of students now completing their SACE, the quality that is produced by a mddle-of-the-range student would be less than in years where only the top 40-50% of students completed Year 12.

[Psyber]

My experience watching continuous assessment has been that many students are so busy trying to work out what the lecturer or tutor thinks and find sources to support the same argument that they don't think about the subject itself at all. To some extent they are right - sometimes the rare dissident opinion is marked down even if well researched and presented.

Lack of experience analysing the positives and negatives of presented ideas and studies for themselves certainly shows up at the postgraduate level in Medicine.
(Along with the inability to add a few numbers together without a calculator.)

[bulldogproud2]

My experience watching continuous assessment has been that many students are so busy trying to work out what the lecturer or tutor thinks and find sources to support the same argument that they don't think about the subject itself at all. To some extent they are right - sometimes the rare dissident opinion is marked down even if well researched and presented.

Lack of experience analysing the positives and negatives of presented ideas and studies for themselves certainly shows up at the postgraduate level in Medicine.
(Along with the inability to add a few numbers together without a calculator.)

It is a little bit surprising to hear that as the reason behind taking some of the weighting off examinations has been to encourage students to improve their research and analytical skills. If assessment was just via a three hour written examination, there would be little opportunity for research or analytical skills to be assessed. Rather, a lot of those examinations just required you to 'rote learn' for the examination. Within a month or so after the examination, a lot of what you had learned was likely to have been forgotten.
Today, at least students should have skills that they should be able to rely on for life (as long as they are taught well).
Cheers

[ORDoubleBlues]

Glad Gail Gago was called out regarding her comment about an overweight male politician as it is double standards, I don't care what anyone says.

[Jimmy_041]

No-one takes her seriously anyway

[southee]

Glad Gail Gago was called out regarding her comment about an overweight male politician as it is double standards, I don't care what anyone says.

Does not suprise me with a comment like that from her !

[GWW]

No-one takes her seriously anyway

Even some ALP people apparently.