APPS - now what do you think?

[Jimmy_041]

I dont believe the APPS was developed with the SAAFL as the primary user, we are unique and have promotion/relegation within our own league as well a number of other issues that does not allow the system in it's current form to be applied fairly to all clubs within.

I think that a points system that has been developed for and applied to us (with all the little tweaks) is the most sensible way forward as the salary cap is way too easy to manipulate as has been shown in the past.

Just having a points system in place makes having juniors a valuable addition and encourages clubs to move in that direction which can only be good for football, but the development of a strong junior programme takes time and perhaps clubs that are shown to be working in that direction can get some benifits re the APPS application which can be faded out as their juniors get stronger.

Ther wer too many "unknowns" with the current system and I believe it should have been phased in slower to give the SAAFL clubs and the executive time to work through the various issues as they came to light

Well, it was sort of phased in but I know what you mean.

One thing everyone forgets - Junior teams (and schools) are a good leg up but there's nothing stopping you signing juniors from any source.
Greenacres could throw on a free beer, BBQ and strip show for the entire PAC First 18 and probably sign the lot for zero points - get creative guys

[HAWKBOY]

I dont believe the APPS was developed with the SAAFL as the primary user, we are unique and have promotion/relegation within our own league as well a number of other issues that does not allow the system in it's current form to be applied fairly to all clubs within.

I think that a points system that has been developed for and applied to us (with all the little tweaks) is the most sensible way forward as the salary cap is way too easy to manipulate as has been shown in the past.

Just having a points system in place makes having juniors a valuable addition and encourages clubs to move in that direction which can only be good for football, but the development of a strong junior programme takes time and perhaps clubs that are shown to be working in that direction can get some benifits re the APPS application which can be faded out as their juniors get stronger.

Ther wer too many "unknowns" with the current system and I believe it should have been phased in slower to give the SAAFL clubs and the executive time to work through the various issues as they came to light

Well, it was sort of phased in but I know what you mean.

One thing everyone forgets - Junior teams (and schools) are a good leg up but there's nothing stopping you signing juniors from any source.
Greenacres could throw on a free beer, BBQ and strip show for the entire PAC First 18 and probably sign the lot for zero points - get creative guys

Would that be a male strip show?

[turk186]

I dont believe the APPS was developed with the SAAFL as the primary user, we are unique and have promotion/relegation within our own league as well a number of other issues that does not allow the system in it's current form to be applied fairly to all clubs within.

I think that a points system that has been developed for and applied to us (with all the little tweaks) is the most sensible way forward as the salary cap is way too easy to manipulate as has been shown in the past.

Just having a points system in place makes having juniors a valuable addition and encourages clubs to move in that direction which can only be good for football, but the development of a strong junior programme takes time and perhaps clubs that are shown to be working in that direction can get some benifits re the APPS application which can be faded out as their juniors get stronger.

Ther wer too many "unknowns" with the current system and I believe it should have been phased in slower to give the SAAFL clubs and the executive time to work through the various issues as they came to light

Well, it was sort of phased in but I know what you mean.

One thing everyone forgets - Junior teams (and schools) are a good leg up but there's nothing stopping you signing juniors from any source.
Greenacres could throw on a free beer, BBQ and strip show for the entire PAC First 18 and probably sign the lot for zero points - get creative guys

and then get busted by Senior Sargent Joe Blog acting on behalf of Crime Stoppers for serving minors

[Footy Smart]

sorry for having an opinion..if they get relegated they go to a grade they can compete in..the school of tough love that has stood the SAAFL in great stead for decades..APPS it totally biased towards clubs like Modbury and GG for example with multiple juniors in high growth areas..as i said many months ago..please tell me how my club CLG is meant to rise up the ranks with no juniors of playing age at this stage, no old scholars and in a fairly stable demographic of older people? maybe we should just wallow in our mire and wait 7 years for our u/12s to come of age

your club is getting an unfair advantage over other clubs who dont have the resources of juniors, old scholars or population growth..so yeah thats really level eh?

Not having a go at you just I dont understand the relegation/promotion system as a leveler.

Your points are contradicting however. If a side was to cop some 'tough love' and compete in the grade they can, how is this any different to CLG and their situation (admittedly i dont know to much about CLG)? CLG could still rise up the table and recruit, they dont need to all be 3 piointers but you can be creative in attracting players and add a few quality players around them(which would attract points). Then retention is the key as these players become less points and you can build on that.

[HAWKBOY]

Umm, this is a discussion about points, not Modburys C grade!

Back on topic please.

Na Na, you just got told off by Mum!!

[Footy Smart]

Umm, this is a discussion about points, not Modburys C grade!

Back on topic please.

Na Na, you just got told off by Mum!!

No by me

[zedman]

sorry for having an opinion..if they get relegated they go to a grade they can compete in..the school of tough love that has stood the SAAFL in great stead for decades..APPS it totally biased towards clubs like Modbury and GG for example with multiple juniors in high growth areas..as i said many months ago..please tell me how my club CLG is meant to rise up the ranks with no juniors of playing age at this stage, no old scholars and in a fairly stable demographic of older people? maybe we should just wallow in our mire and wait 7 years for our u/12s to come of age

your club is getting an unfair advantage over other clubs who dont have the resources of juniors, old scholars or population growth..so yeah thats really level eh?

Not having a go at you just I dont understand the relegation/promotion system as a leveler.

Your points are contradicting however. If a side was to cop some 'tough love' and compete in the grade they can, how is this any different to CLG and their situation (admittedly i dont know to much about CLG)? CLG could still rise up the table and recruit, they dont need to all be 3 piointers but you can be creative in attracting players and add a few quality players around them(which would attract points). Then retention is the key as these players become less points and you can build on that.

its not contradicting at all..they were 2 different issues in 2 different worlds..pre APPS and post APPS..pre APPS if a club lost a heap of players and got relegated it goes to a lower division where it can compete again or do the same thing and go out and recruit hard..

post APPS you are restricted to 15 points including any carry over so you not only get relegated you are also hobbled by the APPS..

we didnt need it and it favours some clubs heavily for the reasons i outlined above..no level playing field at all imo

[Jimmy_041]

I dont believe the APPS was developed with the SAAFL as the primary user, we are unique and have promotion/relegation within our own league as well a number of other issues that does not allow the system in it's current form to be applied fairly to all clubs within.

I think that a points system that has been developed for and applied to us (with all the little tweaks) is the most sensible way forward as the salary cap is way too easy to manipulate as has been shown in the past.

Just having a points system in place makes having juniors a valuable addition and encourages clubs to move in that direction which can only be good for football, but the development of a strong junior programme takes time and perhaps clubs that are shown to be working in that direction can get some benifits re the APPS application which can be faded out as their juniors get stronger.

Ther wer too many "unknowns" with the current system and I believe it should have been phased in slower to give the SAAFL clubs and the executive time to work through the various issues as they came to light

Well, it was sort of phased in but I know what you mean.

One thing everyone forgets - Junior teams (and schools) are a good leg up but there's nothing stopping you signing juniors from any source.
Greenacres could throw on a free beer, BBQ and strip show for the entire PAC First 18 and probably sign the lot for zero points - get creative guys

Would that be a male strip show?

He's taking the pi$$ out of your Turk.........

[Jimmy_041]

I dont believe the APPS was developed with the SAAFL as the primary user, we are unique and have promotion/relegation within our own league as well a number of other issues that does not allow the system in it's current form to be applied fairly to all clubs within.

I think that a points system that has been developed for and applied to us (with all the little tweaks) is the most sensible way forward as the salary cap is way too easy to manipulate as has been shown in the past.

Just having a points system in place makes having juniors a valuable addition and encourages clubs to move in that direction which can only be good for football, but the development of a strong junior programme takes time and perhaps clubs that are shown to be working in that direction can get some benifits re the APPS application which can be faded out as their juniors get stronger.

Ther wer too many "unknowns" with the current system and I believe it should have been phased in slower to give the SAAFL clubs and the executive time to work through the various issues as they came to light

Well, it was sort of phased in but I know what you mean.

One thing everyone forgets - Junior teams (and schools) are a good leg up but there's nothing stopping you signing juniors from any source.
Greenacres could throw on a free beer, BBQ and strip show for the entire PAC First 18 and probably sign the lot for zero points - get creative guys

and then get busted by Senior Sargent Joe Blog acting on behalf of Crime Stoppers for serving minors

As I recall, there were more coppers playing for Greenacres than beagle boys

[Yardy Lard]

We were appallingly told of what was going on from the beginning of the APPS, by the powers to be. Being told of a 3 year trial and then rushed in after one year was the single worst thing about it, as no-one could plan around it and it was a shambles. Having that bloke from the Barossa and Light come to a meeting and tell delegates a whole heap of garbage about losing playing to country leagues, was nothing more than scare mongering, was not the ideal start. More high quality players have probably left the SAAFL than ever before, so that was just useless.

Most importantly, the system is flawed under the current set up in so many areas. It almost definitely is some form - restraint of trade. Not allowing players to play for whoever they want, ensures that is the case.

I don't think the salary cap was or is the answer however as just too easy to manipulate. Am sure this version of the points system is not the answer either,HOWEVER, I think "some version of the points system is the way to go." Certainly not this one however. What exactly it is I really don't know at the point, but it certainly needs a lot of work on it before next season. If there are no changes then alternatives such as not having it may be the only option, "but lets hope a better version or re-vamped version of the points system might be put in place." NO to the salary cap though, as it is far too easily manipulated and any club, or person involved within the inner workings of paying players etc, etc, would have to agree that it can be manipulated. If you don't believe that then you are away with the pixies. Points System for me - BUT not under the current system which needs a major overhaul. Some argue that the relegation and promotion system does the trick - they also have a great deal of validity IMO.

[Jimmy_041]

We were appallingly told of what was going on from the beginning of the APPS, by the powers to be. Being told of a 3 year trial and then rushed in after one year was the single worst thing about it, as no-one could plan around it and it was a shambles. Having that bloke from the Barossa and Light come to a meeting and tell delegates a whole heap of garbage about losing playing to country leagues, was nothing more than scare mongering, was not the ideal start. More high quality players have probably left the SAAFL than ever before, so that was just useless.

Most importantly, the system is flawed under the current set up in so many areas. It almost definitely is some form - restraint of trade. Not allowing players to play for whoever they want, ensures that is the case.

I don't think the salary cap was or is the answer however as just too easy to manipulate. Am sure this version of the points system is not the answer either,HOWEVER, I think "some version of the points system is the way to go." Certainly not this one however. What exactly it is I really don't know at the point, but it certainly needs a lot of work on it before next season. If there are no changes then alternatives such as not having it may be the only option, "but lets hope a better version or re-vamped version of the points system might be put in place." NO to the salary cap though, as it is far too easily manipulated and any club, or person involved within the inner workings of paying players etc, etc, would have to agree that it can be manipulated. If you don't believe that then you are away with the pixies. Points System for me - BUT not under the current system which needs a major overhaul. Some argue that the relegation and promotion system does the trick - they also have a great deal of validity IMO.

You should name some of your improvements - that's what this topic is for

[Yardy Lard]

We were appallingly told of what was going on from the beginning of the APPS, by the powers to be. Being told of a 3 year trial and then rushed in after one year was the single worst thing about it, as no-one could plan around it and it was a shambles. Having that bloke from the Barossa and Light come to a meeting and tell delegates a whole heap of garbage about losing playing to country leagues, was nothing more than scare mongering, was not the ideal start. More high quality players have probably left the SAAFL than ever before, so that was just useless.

Most importantly, the system is flawed under the current set up in so many areas. It almost definitely is some form - restraint of trade. Not allowing players to play for whoever they want, ensures that is the case.

I don't think the salary cap was or is the answer however as just too easy to manipulate. Am sure this version of the points system is not the answer either,HOWEVER, I think "some version of the points system is the way to go." Certainly not this one however. What exactly it is I really don't know at the point, but it certainly needs a lot of work on it before next season. If there are no changes then alternatives such as not having it may be the only option, "but lets hope a better version or re-vamped version of the points system might be put in place." NO to the salary cap though, as it is far too easily manipulated and any club, or person involved within the inner workings of paying players etc, etc, would have to agree that it can be manipulated. If you don't believe that then you are away with the pixies. Points System for me - BUT not under the current system which needs a major overhaul. Some argue that the relegation and promotion system does the trick - they also have a great deal of validity IMO.

The topic says APPS - now what do you think? and says nothing about improvements at all. I said I don't know the answers at this points but certainly not the salary cap.

[Mr Beefy]

I want to know why YL and others keep using the phrase "manipulate the salary cap" instead of "cheat the salary cap"

[turk186]

Perhaps a Kenilworth stalwart and SAAFL life member could "cut and paste" all of the problems he has detected with the current application of the APPS (if there is enough room that is)

[Yardy Lard]

I want to know why YL and others keep using the phrase "manipulate the salary cap" instead of "cheat the salary cap"

Fine then. That is exactly what is meant, as you are fully aware. Thats why the salary cap is certainly not the answer. Just exactly what it is - I am not exactly sure at the moment

[Yardy Lard]

Perhaps a Kenilworth stalwart and SAAFL life member could "cut and paste" all of the problems he has detected with the current application of the APPS (if there is enough room that is)

Very good Turk. That would be interesting - Get the feeling that won't be posted on here though and only heard behind closed doors.

[turk186]

I want to know why YL and others keep using the phrase "manipulate the salary cap" instead of "cheat the salary cap"

If a club sponsor pays the player (in some fashion) is the club technically cheating if they claim that they do not pay the player...... I dont think so ... but they are manipulating the system

[Lightning McQueen]

I want to know why YL and others keep using the phrase "manipulate the salary cap" instead of "cheat the salary cap"

If a club sponsor pays the player (in some fashion) is the club technically cheating if they claim that they do not pay the player...... I dont think so ... but they are manipulating the system

Exactly, if Barry Jones was pretty impressed with the way young Peter Davis played during the day and slips him a couple of hundred at the bar is that cheating.

[Jimmy_041]

Perhaps a Kenilworth stalwart and SAAFL life member could "cut and paste" all of the problems he has detected with the current application of the APPS (if there is enough room that is)

Very good Turk. That would be interesting - Get the feeling that won't be posted on here though and only heard behind closed doors.

Considering he's on R&R's Committee, it would be the appropriate thing to do, wouldn't it?
He's actually got some recommendations though, which makes the right people listen to him.

[zedman]

Perhaps a Kenilworth stalwart and SAAFL life member could "cut and paste" all of the problems he has detected with the current application of the APPS (if there is enough room that is)

pretty sure hes not a member on here but it would be succinct and very thorough i would assume turk? i have heard of a few of his finds via others..