Things that give you the sh1ts

[johntheclaret]

Hearing people say anythink, instead of anything

No good you coming over here then Ian, They would really sh1t you off. Enyfink

[johntheclaret]

The biggest thing is wearing you work uniform whilst at work and working and people ask Do you work here? I feel like saying NO I just wear this uniform cause i love the colours.

Would be a fair question if you were a professional footballer Strawb07

[zipzap]

I agree that teachers are underpaid - as usual you get what you pay for, dont get my wrong there are some good ones out there but some that have no concept of the real business world at all because they never left school!!!!

why would I go get a degree to become a teacher when I can get paid more without one?

Having just read this thread, one thing that sh!ts me is the ignorant perception of the wider community about teachers.

I am sure there are slack and selfish people in every profession, as in teaching, but the majority of teachers I have met are passionate about learning, passionate about the children in their care and genuinely want to make a positive contribution to society. From my experience this is more the case for Primary school teachers who have the same group of kids in their charge all day, all year. Their motives are to make a difference to people's lives, not to make bucketloads of cash - if teachers wanted that they would look to other professions that place self-interest and profit before people every time - which is pretty much every position in the 'real business world'.

Yep, the holidays are GREAT, there is no denying that. But anyone who thinks the average teacher works 6 hours, 5 days a week, I'd invite you to work-shadow me for a few days. Any teacher worth their salt (and there are certainly some who knock off when the bell goes, teach the same old carp every year...really slack) spends many, many hours in their own time preparing lessons, assessing work, reporting, attending training & development, parent-teacher interviews, going away on school camps etc.. Teachers are also required to do 40 hours of t&d, unpaid, in their own time each year. I'm not whinging about it BTW, just wishing I could change the perception that exists in some people's minds.

To begin with most (state govt) teachers get shunted off to the country for a few years before they build up enough points to qualify for a permanent job in the city. That's 'qualify', not 'get'. These teachers are usually on contract (i.e. they don't get paid in holidays), are often moved around from term to term and get given the worst schools / classes, and have to be prepared to pack up and move on at a minute's notice. How many graduate positions would expect that?

After I graduated with my then-girlfriend, now-wife, she was sent to Kangaroo Island for a year, I was sent to Bordertown (I was told a day before school went back so packing, driving, finding a property let alone preparing for school was very interesting). A few contracts later we managed to get to the Riverland together. After several years I finally became permanent and started getting paid for those holidays! But for a while there, on the lowest pay scale, still paying off HECS, and packing and moving and paying rent all the time, I certainly wasn't flush with funds.

This is not meant to be a sob story, just the other side of the coin. It bugs me when I hear ignorant people who think teachers have it all so easy. Sure, teaching is not digging holes or hauling bricks on a building site but it is bloody hard! This nobility-of-the-working-classes, us-against-them mentality that I hear endlessly on talkback radio and even on this thread is a piss-weak defence mechanism for covering up personal inadequacies. Don't blame the school that your kid is defiant, socially inept and hasn't learnt their times-tables by year 7 - what have YOU done about it? Most parents don't want to hear that, the reality that maybe, just maybe, their homelife has failed to give their child a good grounding for education. Much easier to blame it on the teacher.

The hardest kids to teach BTW are those with ignorant, squeaky-wheel parents who are hostile towards teachers due to their own bad experience at school (which of course would have been the teachers' fault) and who back their kids up to the hilt when it comes to any kind of discipline being administered. The best kids to teach are those with positive parents who offer their help and support, take an active interest in their kids, are realistic about what actually goes on in a classroom and see the parent-teacher relationship as one that will only succeed with teamwork.

Well, I'm off to prepare for next term

[Dutchy]

I agree that teachers are underpaid - as usual you get what you pay for, dont get my wrong there are some good ones out there but some that have no concept of the real business world at all because they never left school!!!!

why would I go get a degree to become a teacher when I can get paid more without one?

Having just read this thread, one thing that sh!ts me is the ignorant perception of the wider community about teachers.

I am sure there are slack and selfish people in every profession, as in teaching, but the majority of teachers I have met are passionate about learning, passionate about the children in their care and genuinely want to make a positive contribution to society. From my experience this is more the case for Primary school teachers who have the same group of kids in their charge all day, all year. Their motives are to make a difference to people's lives, not to make bucketloads of cash - if teachers wanted that they would look to other professions that place self-interest and profit before people every time - which is pretty much every position in the 'real business world'.

Yep, the holidays are GREAT, there is no denying that. But anyone who thinks the average teacher works 6 hours, 5 days a week, I'd invite you to work-shadow me for a few days. Any teacher worth their salt (and there are certainly some who knock off when the bell goes, teach the same old carp every year...really slack) spends many, many hours in their own time preparing lessons, assessing work, reporting, attending training & development, parent-teacher interviews, going away on school camps etc.. Teachers are also required to do 40 hours of t&d, unpaid, in their own time each year. I'm not whinging about it BTW, just wishing I could change the perception that exists in some people's minds.

To begin with most (state govt) teachers get shunted off to the country for a few years before they build up enough points to qualify for a permanent job in the city. That's 'qualify', not 'get'. These teachers are usually on contract (i.e. they don't get paid in holidays), are often moved around from term to term and get given the worst schools / classes, and have to be prepared to pack up and move on at a minute's notice. How many graduate positions would expect that?

After I graduated with my then-girlfriend, now-wife, she was sent to Kangaroo Island for a year, I was sent to Bordertown (I was told a day before school went back so packing, driving, finding a property let alone preparing for school was very interesting). A few contracts later we managed to get to the Riverland together. After several years I finally became permanent and started getting paid for those holidays! But for a while there, on the lowest pay scale, still paying off HECS, and packing and moving and paying rent all the time, I certainly wasn't flush with funds.

This is not meant to be a sob story, just the other side of the coin. It bugs me when I hear ignorant people who think teachers have it all so easy. Sure, teaching is not digging holes or hauling bricks on a building site but it is bloody hard! This nobility-of-the-working-classes, us-against-them mentality that I hear endlessly on talkback radio and even on this thread is a piss-weak defence mechanism for covering up personal inadequacies. Don't blame the school that your kid is defiant, socially inept and hasn't learnt their times-tables by year 7 - what have YOU done about it? Most parents don't want to hear that, the reality that maybe, just maybe, their homelife has failed to give their child a good grounding for education. Much easier to blame it on the teacher.

The hardest kids to teach BTW are those with ignorant, squeaky-wheel parents who are hostile towards teachers due to their own bad experience at school (which of course would have been the teachers' fault) and who back their kids up to the hilt when it comes to any kind of discipline being administered. The best kids to teach are those with positive parents who offer their help and support, take an active interest in their kids, are realistic about what actually goes on in a classroom and see the parent-teacher relationship as one that will only succeed with teamwork.

Well, I'm off to prepare for next term

I object to you taking my quote out of context, my point is with all the work you do that most parents dont see or appreciate you should get remunerated better...Im sure many potentailly great teachers are not in the profession as they look at the potential pay structure for their career. My sister is a teacher and a bloody good one so I do know the effort and stresses that goes into it (her first appointment was at Cooper Pedy!)

Having a kid that will enter schooling next year Im going to be very keen for him to develop the correct learning habits and hope his teachers are professional...hence he is going thru the Private schooling path

ZZ from the sounds of things you are a great teacher and the type that I would love my boy to have....

[Jimmy]

are ppl in oz saying ketchup????

pls nooooooo

[zipzap]

I object to you taking my quote out of context,

Sorry, didn't mean to. Could have used many from this thread. You certainly clarified your position in the last post though which is good.
But your statement that some teachers have no concept of the 'real business world' cos they've never left school is one that is widely held in society and can't go unchallenged.

What's more real? A primary classroom where you teach kids to consider all kinds of issues from different points of view, engage in conversations and debate with people from all walks of life, get outside and exercise / engage with the environment, teach kids to stretch their minds with creative problem solving and to express themselves creatively - as well as master the basic skills needed to become a positive contributor to society. Or a desk in a cubicle in an office with windows that don't open, punching information and numbers into a computer so that shareholders get a nice dividend knowing that you are a small cog in a big wheel but have ultimately contributed nothing to the betterment of the world.

OK, that's a gross generalisation. But honestly, I'd be proud if my kid wanted to become a teacher, much more than I would if they wanted to work in a bank anyway!

[zipzap]

Having a kid that will enter schooling next year Im going to be very keen for him to develop the correct learning habits and hope his teachers are professional...hence he is going thru the Private schooling path

Good luck there, but I find it funny people who equate private schooling with quality education. I'm sure you've done the research with wherever it is you are sending your kids but don't assume it will be any better than a 'good' state school. For the record, I work at a 'good' state primary school and the parents at this year's AGM stood up and congratulated the staff/parent community on making it (in their view) one of the best schools in the state, private or otherwise. That might be a lot of hot air but goes to show that people who know better don't necessarily believe you have to go private for a good education.

I get a chuckle when people send their kids to the local Catholic school (on the cheap, poor man's college) so they can say their kids get a 'private' education. I wouldn't send my dog to some such schools - extremely poor facilities, crammed in classrooms, small grounds. And half of them aren't even Catholic!

[Wedgie]

1 serious thing that gives me the sh1ts is people that turn a perfectly good "Thing that Gives you the Sh1ts" topics and turns it into a serious topic about education!

[Leaping Lindner]

People that can't pronounce Dance, Prance, France, Chance, Graph, Answer etc... correctly.
Unfortunately I am surrounded by the buggers.

[Dutchy]

I object to you taking my quote out of context,

Sorry, didn't mean to. Could have used many from this thread. You certainly clarified your position in the last post though which is good.
But your statement that some teachers have no concept of the 'real business world' cos they've never left school is one that is widely held in society and can't go unchallenged.

What's more real? A primary classroom where you teach kids to consider all kinds of issues from different points of view, engage in conversations and debate with people from all walks of life, get outside and exercise / engage with the environment, teach kids to stretch their minds with creative problem solving and to express themselves creatively - as well as master the basic skills needed to become a positive contributor to society. Or a desk in a cubicle in an office with windows that don't open, punching information and numbers into a computer so that shareholders get a nice dividend knowing that you are a small cog in a big wheel but have ultimately contributed nothing to the betterment of the world.

OK, that's a gross generalisation. But honestly, I'd be proud if my kid wanted to become a teacher, much more than I would if they wanted to work in a bank anyway!

I know a few teachers who you cant hold a decent conversation with about the business world and its mechanics and dont understand the pressure of private enterprise...thats all Im saying...

I didnt want to send my son to a private Primary school, I was quite happy with the local school, but to get him where we want him to go at high school we have to fit into the system...if the primary school doesnt shape up he will be out of there!

Funny story - my wife rang the school about enrolment and they said "now you understand we charge $XXXX per year and if that is a problem we have payment plans etc etc"...which my wife responded with "i appreciate what your saying but your fees are $6000- p.a. cheaper than what we are currently paying for Child Care!!!! we cant wait for him to start school!!!"

[RustyCage]

Having a kid that will enter schooling next year Im going to be very keen for him to develop the correct learning habits and hope his teachers are professional...hence he is going thru the Private schooling path

Good luck there, but I find it funny people who equate private schooling with quality education. I'm sure you've done the research with wherever it is you are sending your kids but don't assume it will be any better than a 'good' state school. For the record, I work at a 'good' state primary school and the parents at this year's AGM stood up and congratulated the staff/parent community on making it (in their view) one of the best schools in the state, private or otherwise. That might be a lot of hot air but goes to show that people who know better don't necessarily believe you have to go private for a good education.

I get a chuckle when people send their kids to the local Catholic school (on the cheap, poor man's college) so they can say their kids get a 'private' education. I wouldn't send my dog to some such schools - extremely poor facilities, crammed in classrooms, small grounds. And half of them aren't even Catholic!

I've always wondered why so many people think that private education is so much better than public. Is it the flashy uniforms? Is it the shitload of 4WDs out the front every day? Is it that you have to pay a lot of money to go there, so therefore it must be good? It is the higher TER scores that come out of the private schools? (which is because more people who go there want to go to uni rather than straight into work or TAFE as with a public school).

The only reason why a private school could be better is because of they generally have a bit more money than a public school (due to ripping off all the parents that send kids there). I know a lot of people who have been students and have taught at both public and private, and they ALL say that public is as good, and in some cases better, than private schooling.

It all comes down to the passion of the people working there. My mentor teacher at Ingle Farm East PS now is someone who I would very happily have teaching my (non existant) kids.

And yes, the holidays is good, if you are working full time. If you are a TRT or on a contract, you dont get paid for the holidays, so thats 11 weeks each year when you dont get a cent. And yes, as Zip Zap says, there is so much work to do out of the school hours that most people dont see, but theres nothing better than working on something for however many hours, then going and doing the lesson with the class, and everything going well. It really is a "people person" job.

[RustyCage]

I object to you taking my quote out of context,

Sorry, didn't mean to. Could have used many from this thread. You certainly clarified your position in the last post though which is good.
But your statement that some teachers have no concept of the 'real business world' cos they've never left school is one that is widely held in society and can't go unchallenged.

What's more real? A primary classroom where you teach kids to consider all kinds of issues from different points of view, engage in conversations and debate with people from all walks of life, get outside and exercise / engage with the environment, teach kids to stretch their minds with creative problem solving and to express themselves creatively - as well as master the basic skills needed to become a positive contributor to society. Or a desk in a cubicle in an office with windows that don't open, punching information and numbers into a computer so that shareholders get a nice dividend knowing that you are a small cog in a big wheel but have ultimately contributed nothing to the betterment of the world.

OK, that's a gross generalisation. But honestly, I'd be proud if my kid wanted to become a teacher, much more than I would if they wanted to work in a bank anyway!

I know a few teachers who you cant hold a decent conversation with about the business world and its mechanics and dont understand the pressure of private enterprise...thats all Im saying...

Thats because we dont need to know about all that stuff. Just the same as if I was to have a converstation with you about constructivism, or the work of Jean Piaget, or the setting up of a community or inquiry, or the new report card process, the changing dynamics of a classroom.... You learn what you need to learn to do what you do. If you are in business, you learn about business, if you are a teacher, you learn about education. Nothing to do with one being better than the other.

[Dutchy]

I object to you taking my quote out of context,

Sorry, didn't mean to. Could have used many from this thread. You certainly clarified your position in the last post though which is good.
But your statement that some teachers have no concept of the 'real business world' cos they've never left school is one that is widely held in society and can't go unchallenged.

What's more real? A primary classroom where you teach kids to consider all kinds of issues from different points of view, engage in conversations and debate with people from all walks of life, get outside and exercise / engage with the environment, teach kids to stretch their minds with creative problem solving and to express themselves creatively - as well as master the basic skills needed to become a positive contributor to society. Or a desk in a cubicle in an office with windows that don't open, punching information and numbers into a computer so that shareholders get a nice dividend knowing that you are a small cog in a big wheel but have ultimately contributed nothing to the betterment of the world.

OK, that's a gross generalisation. But honestly, I'd be proud if my kid wanted to become a teacher, much more than I would if they wanted to work in a bank anyway!

I know a few teachers who you cant hold a decent conversation with about the business world and its mechanics and dont understand the pressure of private enterprise...thats all Im saying...

Thats because we dont need to know about all that stuff. Just the same as if I was to have a converstation with you about constructivism, or the work of Jean Piaget, or the setting up of a community or inquiry, or the new report card process, the changing dynamics of a classroom.... You learn what you need to learn to do what you do. If you are in business, you learn about business, if you are a teacher, you learn about education. Nothing to do with one being better than the other.

And I present to you "Exhibit A"....

[smac]

I object to you taking my quote out of context,

Sorry, didn't mean to. Could have used many from this thread. You certainly clarified your position in the last post though which is good.
But your statement that some teachers have no concept of the 'real business world' cos they've never left school is one that is widely held in society and can't go unchallenged.

What's more real? A primary classroom where you teach kids to consider all kinds of issues from different points of view, engage in conversations and debate with people from all walks of life, get outside and exercise / engage with the environment, teach kids to stretch their minds with creative problem solving and to express themselves creatively - as well as master the basic skills needed to become a positive contributor to society. Or a desk in a cubicle in an office with windows that don't open, punching information and numbers into a computer so that shareholders get a nice dividend knowing that you are a small cog in a big wheel but have ultimately contributed nothing to the betterment of the world.

OK, that's a gross generalisation. But honestly, I'd be proud if my kid wanted to become a teacher, much more than I would if they wanted to work in a bank anyway!

I know a few teachers who you cant hold a decent conversation with about the business world and its mechanics and dont understand the pressure of private enterprise...thats all Im saying...

Thats because we dont need to know about all that stuff. Just the same as if I was to have a converstation with you about constructivism, or the work of Jean Piaget, or the setting up of a community or inquiry, or the new report card process, the changing dynamics of a classroom.... You learn what you need to learn to do what you do. If you are in business, you learn about business, if you are a teacher, you learn about education. Nothing to do with one being better than the other.

Have been interested just following this one until now. I disagree - unless you are a bore. Take an interest in the world around you and you will be amazed that there is more to it than your own sphere of influence.

Learn how to milk a cow and talk to a farmer about it (I actually did this!)
Learn about education and speak with educators (I did this too)

Makes life far more interesting.

I reckon the point trying to be made above is that teachers seem to be less inclined to do this - if that is the point being made, I concur.

[Psyber]

I've always wondered why so many people think that private education is so much better than public. Is it the flashy uniforms? Is it the shitload of 4WDs out the front every day? Is it that you have to pay a lot of money to go there, so therefore it must be good? It is the higher TER scores that come out of the private schools? (which is because more people who go there want to go to uni rather than straight into work or TAFE as with a public school).

I suspect that another factor is the feeling that as a paying customer you have a bit more weight if you are not happy with the way things are being done, whether it is in the way the curriculum is run or the way behaviour and drug issues are being handled. You can front the Principal, and policy is not determined by some unreachable bureacrat in head office, who allegedly knows better than you. More highly educated people are likely to favour this. I went to a state High School - Woodville - but my step-daughter went to a private girls' school in Adelaide.

It is much the same as health policy. My wife needed a CT Scan recently to exclude lung cancer [all clear] and the specialist she saw privately is a consultant at a local public hospital with part-time private practice rights, and he referred her to their Radiology department. But I found out from a technical contact that a local private Radiology company had a scanner that was 9x more sensitive, verified it with a doctor I knew, and had her diverted there! The cost as a privately referred patient was the same in both places.

[zipzap]

I know a few teachers who you cant hold a decent conversation with about the business world and its mechanics and dont understand the pressure of private enterprise...thats all Im saying...

Thats because we dont need to know about all that stuff. Just the same as if I was to have a converstation with you about constructivism, or the work of Jean Piaget, or the setting up of a community or inquiry, or the new report card process, the changing dynamics of a classroom.... You learn what you need to learn to do what you do. If you are in business, you learn about business, if you are a teacher, you learn about education. Nothing to do with one being better than the other.

And I present to you "Exhibit A"....

Hmm...As soon as I saw that quote pafc1870 I knew we would be in trouble

I think what you're trying to say is this: If I was a high school economics teacher I would definitely be expected to know about the machinations of the business world. But surely you wouldn't expect that from all teachers (eg a high school art teacher, or a general primary school teacher like myself)? Just like I wouldn't expect Mr Economics to teach my kid about Renaissance art or how to spell big words.

Our job, everything being equal and especially at primary level, is to turn out well-rounded individuals who have learned how to learn, get along with others and have gained the skills to become successful at whatever they pursue later on. Not to produce robotic little grey-faced economists who toe the line, look after the shareholders, snag a trophy wife, exploit others in pursuit of profit and vote Liberal.

That's for private schools

[RustyCage]

I've always wondered why so many people think that private education is so much better than public. Is it the flashy uniforms? Is it the shitload of 4WDs out the front every day? Is it that you have to pay a lot of money to go there, so therefore it must be good? It is the higher TER scores that come out of the private schools? (which is because more people who go there want to go to uni rather than straight into work or TAFE as with a public school).

I suspect that another factor is the feeling that as a paying customer you have a bit more weight if you are not happy with the way things are being done, whether it is in the way the curriculum is run or the way behaviour and drug issues are being handled. You can front the Principal, and policy is not determined by some unreachable bureacrat in head office, who allegedly knows better than you. More highly educated people are likely to favour this. I went to a state High School - Woodville - but my step-daughter went to a private girls' school in Adelaide.

It is much the same as health policy. My wife needed a CT Scan recently to exclude lung cancer [all clear] and the specialist she saw privately is a consultant at a local public hospital with part-time private practice rights, and he referred her to their Radiology department. But I found out from a technical contact that a local private Radiology company had a scanner that was 9x more sensitive, verified it with a doctor I knew, and had her diverted there! The cost as a privately referred patient was the same in both places.

Firstly, education is a lot different than the medical field. Secondly, the differences between public and private schools you mentioned are not quite right. Policy in a public school is not chosen by someone in an office miles away as you stated. Public schools aren't just puppets for the government or DECS or whoever.

[zipzap]

Getting slightly back on topic, though this probably has something to do with the teaching thing

Sign's/newspaper's/people that dont' use apostrophe's correctly.

[redden whites]

Geez,I friggin hate bloody servos that put the number 8 upside down on the price boards.If it has a little o and a big O the big O goes on the bottom of the number 8 .GEEZ that shits me....... it's everywhere.

[Psyber]

I've always wondered why so many people think that private education is so much better than public. Is it the flashy uniforms? Is it the shitload of 4WDs out the front every day? Is it that you have to pay a lot of money to go there, so therefore it must be good? It is the higher TER scores that come out of the private schools? (which is because more people who go there want to go to uni rather than straight into work or TAFE as with a public school).

I suspect that another factor is the feeling that as a paying customer you have a bit more weight if you are not happy with the way things are being done, whether it is in the way the curriculum is run or the way behaviour and drug issues are being handled. You can front the Principal, and policy is not determined by some unreachable bureacrat in head office, who allegedly knows better than you. More highly educated people are likely to favour this. I went to a state High School - Woodville - but my step-daughter went to a private girls' school in Adelaide.

It is much the same as health policy. My wife needed a CT Scan recently to exclude lung cancer [all clear] and the specialist she saw privately is a consultant at a local public hospital with part-time private practice rights, and he referred her to their Radiology department. But I found out from a technical contact that a local private Radiology company had a scanner that was 9x more sensitive, verified it with a doctor I knew, and had her diverted there! The cost as a privately referred patient was the same in both places.

Firstly, education is a lot different than the medical field. Secondly, the differences between public and private schools you mentioned are not quite right. Policy in a public school is not chosen by someone in an office miles away as you stated. Public schools aren't just puppets for the government or DECS or whoever.

Those differences were there when I acquired a teenage step-daughter, but that was I admit 15 years ago. My brother-in-law is a senior high school teacher in SA and he is very attached to the public system, but from what he has said in passing conversation recently about problems he has experienced it still seems to be true, and he is not a disgruntled teacher, he actually approves of the system and is mildly disapproving of private schooling. Then he is a nice guy but very conventional and knows very little outside his field and sport - he is another Port Adelaide supporter. [While visiting recently I cleaned over 200 spyware items off a family computer for them.]

I have known a lot of teachers socially, usually like the brother-in-law, nice people, but conventional and unimaginative, and inclined to live inside their careers. I suspect the "never left school" thing does apply to many.

On the other hand a Hells Angel of my acquaintance sends his kids to a private school and they are very well behaved - mind you Dad is also very composed, polite, and business-like - not feral at all - presumably unless you cross him or interfere with his business. He keeps his kids away from "business".