Div1-3R v's Div 4-7

[chram88]

I think that as far as comparisons go between a div1R team and a div 4 team the players would be just about the same.
I guess the benefit of having div1R players worth 0 points is that they are not prevented from leaving a club to play a higher grade.
for example there would be some pretty good, b-graders at Henley or Goodwood who would have aspirations to play at a higher level than B's but simply cant get a gig at their club. hence their incentives for switching clubs would be different to someone from Div 4 who may just be chasing coin.

And the best players in Div 4, (the ones more likely to be jumping clubs for cash) would easily be better than the majority of Div1R players hence are probably worth about 2 points.

[woodublieve12]

shocs b grade would beat div 4 side and comfortably beat a div 5 side... and i reckon they'dbe at least competitve wit a d3 side. didnt say they would win...

also cant believe a stupid comment from some one a couple of years back is still getting air time...

[footys the winner]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say SHOCs 2s would beat any div 4 side by 40+

[footys the winner]

If you got the best 21 from div 1R vs best 21 from div 4. Div 1R would smash them.

[bara-stick]

Its easy to work out who would win. W=(x-y)/D to the power of 21(x).T+T/g squared. seeeesh how easy was that

[Freo HeaveHo]

I knew as soon as a clicked on this topic exactly the direction it was heading. Who really gives a S*** who would win . In answer to the question asked. The point system is always a tough thing to get right. But how can you monitor it. It's not like you can have a point amount allocated to each player on their ability. There would be many great pick ups in the reserves in div 1-3 who should warrant being worth points. And also blokes running round in div 4 and lower in the a grade who aren't worthy of being worth points. Each case would have it's own argument

[zedman]

Its easy to work out who would win. W=(x-y)/D to the power of 21(x).T+T/g squared. seeeesh how easy was that

i used that equation and came up with the result..a draw..end of the thread

[kickinit]

it would be very hard to gauge there would be guys playing Div1r that are probably on the verge of playing A grade or have played a few games. When you are putting it that way these guys would definitely be making a div4 side. But then you get guys in div4 that could be playing higher but as the probably love there club and have there mates around them they won't. If I had to put money on which one would win i'd go with the div1r, i'd think you would fine there is more guys in div1r that would be capable of playing div then in div4. I think it should be if that player has played in any div1 matches they should be awarded at least 1 point.

[Yardy Lard]

Each grade just is an indication of where clubs are in the pecking order. Some clubs in a lower division such as D4, might be vastly superior to all other clubs in their grade that year and would be highly competitive in D3 - etc, etc, etc. Generally they are in that grade because of the playing standard of the players, coaches, off field administrators, trainers and general culture of the club. The good clubs such as Gaza, Goodwood and Henley for instance, get it right with most things they do. They have a culture, that brings the very best people to their club. An A Grade side is about 35 players (with depth) coaches, assistant coaches, administrators, research, technology, trainers and good all round culture at their club. The lower you go through the grades, you "generally" find the quality of everything drops away. That is a fact. It starts with the players, coaches and administrators and then works its way right down to the trainers, team managers and waterboys.

It takes good clubs in the lower grades. and most importantly people not afraid to make tough decisions to then aspire to be the new Goodwood, Henley or Gaza, by doing things right and having the very best people around their club to take them higher. No great magical secret at all - you need the best people across he board to make a successful A Grade side and club. The lower you go the culture and quality of the people around doing their jobs generally slowly goes backwards. Watch in 10 years time however, as the new exciting clubs in D6 and D5, learn the secret to going forward & bringing in the best people. They also will thrive, but it takes time and bringing in the best people across their whole club and not just the players. Importantly, you need cultures to change in clubs.

[morell]

So you're saying that if you play youre football in a lower Div you have bad culture as a club, and the people involved are incompetent?

I understand your overall point eg good people = good culture = good club, but the rest of your post is a whole pile of condescending horse crap.

There is so much more to what determines a clubs standing than just a good culture. Sure its part of it, but its not the whole enchilada. Plenty of very successful clubs have had terrible cultures and plenty of ordinary clubs on the field have had great cultures off it.

Our year a while ago in Div 6 when we got smashed week in week out we were fantastic in terms of discipline, volunteering, financially, culturally etc we had a great person from a great club coaching ... but we didn't have the players!

The main reason Mitchell Park are in division 7 is because of the high density of competitive clubs around us, demographic and population shifts, no backing from an Old Scholar pool and a historically poor reputation of thuggery - so maybe one out 4 or 5 reaons could be tied to a "cultural" issue. The people running our club right now would slot into just about any other club very easily, in fact, most of them have done so in the past - Happy Valley, Edwardstown, Kilburn to name a few.

Think I am going to add this one to morell's Football Myth Busters episode 1.

[Yank Man]

Each grade just is an indication of where clubs are in the pecking order. Some clubs in a lower division such as D4, might be vastly superior to all other clubs in their grade that year and would be highly competitive in D3 - etc, etc, etc. Generally they are in that grade because of the playing standard of the players, coaches, off field administrators, trainers and general culture of the club. The good clubs such as Gaza, Goodwood and Henley for instance, get it right with most things they do. They have a culture, that brings the very best people to their club. An A Grade side is about 35 players (with depth) coaches, assistant coaches, administrators, research, technology, trainers and good all round culture at their club. The lower you go through the grades, you "generally" find the quality of everything drops away. That is a fact. It starts with the players, coaches and administrators and then works its way right down to the trainers, team managers and waterboys.

It takes good clubs in the lower grades. and most importantly people not afraid to make tough decisions to then aspire to be the new Goodwood, Henley or Gaza, by doing things right and having the very best people around their club to take them higher. No great magical secret at all - you need the best people across he board to make a successful A Grade side and club. The lower you go the culture and quality of the people around doing their jobs generally slowly goes backwards. Watch in 10 years time however, as the new exciting clubs in D6 and D5, learn the secret to going forward & bringing in the best people. They also will thrive, but it takes time and bringing in the best people across their whole club and not just the players. Importantly, you need cultures to change in clubs.

Success brings success. Success brings money. To be those top clubs you need money. It has bugger all to do with cultures. Mitchell Pk has an incredible culture, lots of quality people inc. volunteers, coaches and players who could, and have, all be involved at a much higher level. They play for the love of the club and a chance to push the club up the divisions. But if they do then money is needed cos let's not kid ourselves clubs at Div 3-4-5 all pay players. Div 7 has 5 C grade clubs in it and all very strong clubs so going up just one grade becomes difficult unless you throw some bucks at it. But do you keep those money players to become your future, my experience says probably not. Catch 22.

[Yardy Lard]

No clubs were mentioned here. Purely that good cultures in a football club bring the best results, on an overall basis. That is why at the moment - Gaza, Henley and Goodwood are the best both "on and off field." They know what is required to win and set about doing it. This comes from junior set ups and a whole range of things. Money has an enormous amount to do with it, but money alone will not get you any premierships. Plenty of sides have tried to buy a premiership, only to end up going backwards. The culture in a club, is the all round element to a club and this is what clubs such as Goodwood, Henley and Gaza do better than just about all. Every other club, should look at how they are run and perhaps model their structures, based around them. They are successful for a reason, so follow what they do, as they are currently, the leaders of the pack. Clubs like Central District some 10 years ago or more, modelled their club around the Port Adelaide Magpies and now they are the top of the tree - they learnt from the best and are now reaping the benefits.

[Yardy Lard]

So you're saying that if you play youre football in a lower Div you have bad culture as a club, and the people involved are incompetent?

I understand your overall point eg good people = good culture = good club, but the rest of your post is a whole pile of condescending horse crap.

There is so much more to what determines a clubs standing than just a good culture. Sure its part of it, but its not the whole enchilada. Plenty of very successful clubs have had terrible cultures and plenty of ordinary clubs on the field have had great cultures off it.

Our year a while ago in Div 6 when we got smashed week in week out we were fantastic in terms of discipline, volunteering, financially, culturally etc we had a great person from a great club coaching ... but we didn't have the players!

The main reason Mitchell Park are in division 7 is because of the high density of competitive clubs around us, demographic and population shifts, no backing from an Old Scholar pool and a historically poor reputation of thuggery - so maybe one out 4 or 5 reaons could be tied to a "cultural" issue. The people running our club right now would slot into just about any other club very easily, in fact, most of them have done so in the past - Happy Valley, Edwardstown, Kilburn to name a few.

Think I am going to add this one to morell's Football Myth Busters episode 1.

No where was that mentioned about any club or division being incompetent. You have put your own slant on that Morrell and then added something that was not there. Read a little closer, before getting too excited

[Yank Man]

No clubs were mentioned here. Purely that good cultures in a football club bring the best results, on an overall basis. That is why at the moment - Gaza, Henley and Goodwood are the best both "on and off field." They know what is required to win and set about doing it. This comes from junior set ups and a whole range of things. Money has an enormous amount to do with it, but money alone will not get you any premierships. Plenty of sides have tried to buy a premiership, only to end up going backwards. The culture in a club, is the all round element to a club and this is what clubs such as Goodwood, Henley and Gaza do better than just about all. Every other club, should look at how they are run and perhaps model their structures, based around them. They are successful for a reason, so follow what they do, as they are currently, the leaders of the pack. Clubs like Central District some 10 years ago or more, modelled their club around the Port Adelaide Magpies and now they are the top of the tree - they learnt from the best and are now reaping the benefits.

Agree. You left out SHOC who were a battling Div 2 or 3 club some years ago but are now a top Div 1 club. All built on culture and love of the club. Never underestimate the love for the club. Good junior programmes create future club strenghs. I coached a team of U13's a few years ago that beat Gaza by 35 goals consistently and 10 of those players from Gaza are now playing seniors. Why? Club culture. They loved the club.

[Yardy Lard]

No clubs were mentioned here. Purely that good cultures in a football club bring the best results, on an overall basis. That is why at the moment - Gaza, Henley and Goodwood are the best both "on and off field." They know what is required to win and set about doing it. This comes from junior set ups and a whole range of things. Money has an enormous amount to do with it, but money alone will not get you any premierships. Plenty of sides have tried to buy a premiership, only to end up going backwards. The culture in a club, is the all round element to a club and this is what clubs such as Goodwood, Henley and Gaza do better than just about all. Every other club, should look at how they are run and perhaps model their structures, based around them. They are successful for a reason, so follow what they do, as they are currently, the leaders of the pack. Clubs like Central District some 10 years ago or more, modelled their club around the Port Adelaide Magpies and now they are the top of the tree - they learnt from the best and are now reaping the benefits.

Agree. You left out SHOC who were a battling Div 2 or 3 club some years ago but are now a top Div 1 club. All built on culture and love of the club. Never underestimate the love for the club. Good junior programmes create future club strenghs. I coached a team of U13's a few years ago that beat Gaza by 35 goals consistently and 10 of those players from Gaza are now playing seniors. Why? Club culture. They loved the club.

Agreed. Gaza players do love their club and are hard to move on or try and recruit. Once there, they won't budge. SHOC are nearly there. You are right about them being a battling D2 and D3 club a few years ago, but premierships are still the major and only real currency in determining the great clubs. They are close, in coming second twice now, however still no cigar and I am sure the SHOC hierarchy and coaching staff, will only accept a premiership as the only currency in 2012, for determining whether they join those elite clubs who have won D1 premierships. Harsh, but fair and football is a harsh and brutal game. No other currency says success like a premiership.

[Yank Man]

No clubs were mentioned here. Purely that good cultures in a football club bring the best results, on an overall basis. That is why at the moment - Gaza, Henley and Goodwood are the best both "on and off field." They know what is required to win and set about doing it. This comes from junior set ups and a whole range of things. Money has an enormous amount to do with it, but money alone will not get you any premierships. Plenty of sides have tried to buy a premiership, only to end up going backwards. The culture in a club, is the all round element to a club and this is what clubs such as Goodwood, Henley and Gaza do better than just about all. Every other club, should look at how they are run and perhaps model their structures, based around them. They are successful for a reason, so follow what they do, as they are currently, the leaders of the pack. Clubs like Central District some 10 years ago or more, modelled their club around the Port Adelaide Magpies and now they are the top of the tree - they learnt from the best and are now reaping the benefits.

Agree. You left out SHOC who were a battling Div 2 or 3 club some years ago but are now a top Div 1 club. All built on culture and love of the club. Never underestimate the love for the club. Good junior programmes create future club strenghs. I coached a team of U13's a few years ago that beat Gaza by 35 goals consistently and 10 of those players from Gaza are now playing seniors. Why? Club culture. They loved the club.

Agreed. Gaza players do love their club and are hard to move on or try and recruit. Once there, they won't budge. SHOC are nearly there. You are right about them being a battling D2 and D3 club a few years ago, but premierships are still the major and only real currency in determining the great clubs. They are close, in coming second twice now, however still no cigar and I am sure the SHOC hierarchy and coaching staff, will only accept a premiership as the only currency in 2012, for determining whether they join those elite clubs who have won D1 premierships. Harsh, but fair and football is a harsh and brutal game. No other currency says success like a premiership.

Yes no doubt Yardy but before a premiership comes credibility. PS I am not a SHOC fan but respect the way they have developed over the years.

[LaughingKookaburra]

If you got the best 21 from div 1R vs best 21 from div 4. Div 1R would smash them.

Captain Obvious!!! Maybe because the best 21 players in div 1r are division 1 standard footballers.......

If you took the very best 21 from GSFL and Hills leagues they'd probably knock of Div 1s best 21 purely because the coin they hand out. Depth is the key......

[Jetters]

So you're saying that if you play youre football in a lower Div you have bad culture as a club, and the people involved are incompetent?

I understand your overall point eg good people = good culture = good club, but the rest of your post is a whole pile of condescending horse crap.

There is so much more to what determines a clubs standing than just a good culture. Sure its part of it, but its not the whole enchilada. Plenty of very successful clubs have had terrible cultures and plenty of ordinary clubs on the field have had great cultures off it.

Our year a while ago in Div 6 when we got smashed week in week out we were fantastic in terms of discipline, volunteering, financially, culturally etc we had a great person from a great club coaching ... but we didn't have the players!

The main reason Mitchell Park are in division 7 is because of the high density of competitive clubs around us, demographic and population shifts, no backing from an Old Scholar pool and a historically poor reputation of thuggery - so maybe one out 4 or 5 reaons could be tied to a "cultural" issue. The people running our club right now would slot into just about any other club very easily, in fact, most of them have done so in the past - Happy Valley, Edwardstown, Kilburn to name a few.

Think I am going to add this one to morell's Football Myth Busters episode 1.

Why don't more people then put up their hands to develop your juniors then!!!!

[Jetters]

If you got the best 21 from div 1R vs best 21 from div 4. Div 1R would smash them.

Captain Obvious!!! Maybe because the best 21 players in div 1r are division 1 standard footballers.......

If you took the very best 21 from GSFL and Hills leagues they'd probably knock of Div 1s best 21 purely because the coin they hand out. Depth is the key......

This is bloody stupid.

The best 21 from D4 would kill the best 21 from D1r!

Each club would have a couple of guns who would walk into D1 teams.

In saying that the best D1r teams would beat D4 imo

[Yardy Lard]

If you got the best 21 from div 1R vs best 21 from div 4. Div 1R would smash them.

Captain Obvious!!! Maybe because the best 21 players in div 1r are division 1 standard footballers.......

If you took the very best 21 from GSFL and Hills leagues they'd probably knock of Div 1s best 21 purely because the coin they hand out. Depth is the key......

This is bloody stupid.

The best 21 from D4 would kill the best 21 from D1r!

Each club would have a couple of guns who would walk into D1 teams.

In saying that the best D1r teams would beat D4 imo

For what it is worth the best 21 from D1 Reserves, would probably beat the best players from D4 downwards, due to the fact that all of them would be D1 players of a reasonable amount of experience. IMO - the best 5 sides in D1 Reserves would be about the same as the middle to bottom D5 sides. The top 4 or 5 sides in D5, would beat all the D1 Reserves sides, but the bottom five would be beaten. For all the D1 people, don't kid yourself, the top D5 sides are very, very useful with some very good players and would beat the Henley and SHOC of the D1 Reserves competition, but the bottom sides would really struggle, mainly due to pace, intensity and the big one of fitness, as the D1 Reserve players have generally put in a big pre-season.

A trial game is not the answer either, as neither side would not have the best players available, for various reasons and not all of the club coaches, or probably very few, are going to let his players be used as a guinea pig. Easier to leave it as an unanswered question as nobody will really find out the answer.