1st Test V India starting Boxing Day

[am Bays]

Who was our 5th bowler from 1995-2005 when we smacked all comers

Any of Bevan, Mark Waugh, Steve Waugh, Symonds (started in 04), Lehmann, Blewett.

All batsmen who could bowl, not all-rounders, but hey, Hussey is superior to Steve Smith, so why not call these guys all-rounders...?

M Waugh's last significant spell was at Lords in 1993 when McDermott was injured.

S Waugh barely bowled after 1996 with his hamstring and groin problems, yes he bowled occasionaly but not as a 5th bowler for extended spells like he did in the early 90s when he got test 4 fors.

Beavan was getting picked in 1996-97 to cover Taylors run of outs. He was actually getting picked as the fourth bowler, batting 7 with Healy at 8.


yes we used a fifth bowler in 1995-2005 but it was a shock tactic to break a partnership. We never picked a genuine all-rounder in the Botham/Flintoff mould which was the significant selection philosphy change when Watson got picked in the 2005 Sydney test as someone who could bowl a significant 5th bowler spells test after test (20 overs plus) not as one who bowled 4-5 overs per test

[rod_rooster]

IN 2/130
THE GREAT WALL OF INDIA 34*[93]
LITTLE CHAMP 24*[23]
With no 5th bowler , the 4 man attack might struggle

How many teams play 5 bowlers.

Australia until Watson got injured

Australia until Andrew Symonds retired

Who was our 5th bowler from 1995-2005 when we smacked all comers like problem children?? And no, Mcgrath and Warne didn't play every test match.

But when Warne missed, MacGill was waiting in the wings. In the pace department we had Gillespie, Lee, Kasprowicz etc.

Now we have Siddle leading the attack. Sure he is improving and i for one love the way he goes about it but he's not Jason Gillespie. Pattinson and Cummins look really promising though and hopefully they can step up and make Siddle the guy like Bichel who tries hard but makes a great 12th man.

[am Bays]

But when Warne missed, MacGill was waiting in the wings. In the pace department we had Gillespie, Lee, Kasprowicz etc.

Now we have Siddle leading the attack. Sure he is improving and i for one love the way he goes about it but he's not Jason Gillespie. Pattinson and Cummins look really promising though and hopefully they can step up and make Siddle the guy like Bichel who tries hard but makes a great 12th man.

exactly we stuck to a basic fomula, six batsmen, 1 keeper and four bowlers. As players got injured or lost form we replaced like for like. Only real variation was where we played two spinners two pace men or three pacemen one spinner.

We lack the ability to pressure the Indians as our bowlers don't have runs to bowl at.

And PG, dodgy decisions have pre dated test cricket as Edmond Barton found out in 1870. Good sides rise above that. And only one of those may have been reversed as Snicko isn't a valid DRS technology, it's a good TV gimick. Only the pitch in line, ball tracker and hot spot are the valid DRS technology, as I understand it. Cowan's would've have stayed as umpires call. I haven't seen a hot spot of his dismissal only the super slomos and snickos so I'm happy to be corrected on that.

[MAY-Z]

And PG, dodgy decisions have pre dated test cricket as Edmond Barton found out in 1870. Good sides rise above that. And only one of those may have been reversed as Snicko isn't a valid DRS technology, it's a good TV gimick. Only the pitch in line, ball tracker and hot spot are the valid DRS technology, as I understand it. Cowan's would've have stayed as umpires call. I haven't seen a hot spot of his dismissal only the super slomos and snickos so I'm happy to be corrected on that.

they did show cowans with hot spot and that didnt show an edge but in a interview in the morning before play started haddin had said he thought it was out even if drs was in play cowan said he wouldve walked off based on haddin's thoughts. a similar situation arose in england during the india tests this year when dravid played and missed at a ball, there was a loud noise and taufel gave him out. dravid thought he didnt hit so he went to consult with sachin who was his partner at the time and sachin told him to go as he thought dravid hit it too (the drs was being used at the time). after a few replays it was confirmed that the noise was dravid's shoe lace flicking the bottom of the bat

there is a problem with hotspot when the camera is placed a long way from the batsmen, the gambhir dismassal where he clearly hit the ball didnt show much of an edge, if any edge, on hotspot so it isnt definitive

[rod_rooster]

But when Warne missed, MacGill was waiting in the wings. In the pace department we had Gillespie, Lee, Kasprowicz etc.

Now we have Siddle leading the attack. Sure he is improving and i for one love the way he goes about it but he's not Jason Gillespie. Pattinson and Cummins look really promising though and hopefully they can step up and make Siddle the guy like Bichel who tries hard but makes a great 12th man.

exactly we stuck to a basic fomula, six batsmen, 1 keeper and four bowlers. As players got injured or lost form we replaced like for like. Only real variation was where we played two spinners two pace men or three pacemen one spinner.

We lack the ability to pressure the Indians as our bowlers don't have runs to bowl at.

The point is that whilst we don't have the bowlers like we used to we perhaps need to play an extra one. I am of the opinion that an allrounder needs to be able to justify his spot on one discipline alone so in previous years i wouldn't suggest Christian for a second. Currently though his form with the bat in first class cricket suggests he would be a more that suitable option in the top six. Marsh has no form of late and no record of note to justify coming straight back into the side after a two month injury lay off. Christian should've played.

[Jim05]

But when Warne missed, MacGill was waiting in the wings. In the pace department we had Gillespie, Lee, Kasprowicz etc.

Now we have Siddle leading the attack. Sure he is improving and i for one love the way he goes about it but he's not Jason Gillespie. Pattinson and Cummins look really promising though and hopefully they can step up and make Siddle the guy like Bichel who tries hard but makes a great 12th man.

exactly we stuck to a basic fomula, six batsmen, 1 keeper and four bowlers. As players got injured or lost form we replaced like for like. Only real variation was where we played two spinners two pace men or three pacemen one spinner.

We lack the ability to pressure the Indians as our bowlers don't have runs to bowl at.

The point is that whilst we don't have the bowlers like we used to we perhaps need to play an extra one. I am of the opinion that an allrounder needs to be able to justify his spot on one discipline alone so in previous years i wouldn't suggest Christian for a second. Currently though his form with the bat in first class cricket suggests he would be a more that suitable option in the top six. Marsh has no form of late and no record of note to justify coming straight back into the side after a two month injury lay off. Christian should've played.

Our batting is the problem not the bowling. We keep producing pathetic innings with the bat. The MCG pitch is almost a road, with India's attack 450 minimum would have been acceptable. Our bowlers keep getting shit totals to defend

[rod_rooster]

But when Warne missed, MacGill was waiting in the wings. In the pace department we had Gillespie, Lee, Kasprowicz etc.

Now we have Siddle leading the attack. Sure he is improving and i for one love the way he goes about it but he's not Jason Gillespie. Pattinson and Cummins look really promising though and hopefully they can step up and make Siddle the guy like Bichel who tries hard but makes a great 12th man.

exactly we stuck to a basic fomula, six batsmen, 1 keeper and four bowlers. As players got injured or lost form we replaced like for like. Only real variation was where we played two spinners two pace men or three pacemen one spinner.

We lack the ability to pressure the Indians as our bowlers don't have runs to bowl at.

The point is that whilst we don't have the bowlers like we used to we perhaps need to play an extra one. I am of the opinion that an allrounder needs to be able to justify his spot on one discipline alone so in previous years i wouldn't suggest Christian for a second. Currently though his form with the bat in first class cricket suggests he would be a more that suitable option in the top six. Marsh has no form of late and no record of note to justify coming straight back into the side after a two month injury lay off. Christian should've played.

Our batting is the problem not the bowling. We keep producing pathetic innings with the bat. The MCG pitch is almost a road, with India's attack 450 minimum would have been acceptable. Our bowlers keep getting shit totals to defend

How much worse off would our batting have been with Christian instead of Marsh? Our bowling would sure be better off.

[Jim05]

Yes Marsh had a poor innings but he is a genuine top order batter. Christian is a number 6 at best. As for Dan's bowling I think its pedestrian at best, struggle to see him getting a wicket at test level

[rod_rooster]

Yes Marsh had a poor innings but he is a genuine top order batter. Christian is a number 6 at best. As for Dan's bowling I think its pedestrian at best, struggle to see him getting a wicket at test level

A genuine top order bat would have made more than 7 hundreds in 65 first class games. He averages basically the same as Brad Haddin as well. Does that make Brad Haddin a genuine top order bat? Marsh is not the player everyone wants him to be.

[Jim05]

Yes Marsh had a poor innings but he is a genuine top order batter. Christian is a number 6 at best. As for Dan's bowling I think its pedestrian at best, struggle to see him getting a wicket at test level

A genuine top order bat would have made more than 7 hundreds in 65 first class games. He averages basically the same as Brad Haddin as well. Does that make Brad Haddin a genuine top order bat? Marsh is not the player everyone wants him to be.

That may be the case but he is a far better batter than Christian.
Australia needs a number 3 so it was Marsh, Khawaja or someone else who can bat 3. You wouldnt bring Christian in to bat 3

[rod_rooster]

Yes Marsh had a poor innings but he is a genuine top order batter. Christian is a number 6 at best. As for Dan's bowling I think its pedestrian at best, struggle to see him getting a wicket at test level

A genuine top order bat would have made more than 7 hundreds in 65 first class games. He averages basically the same as Brad Haddin as well. Does that make Brad Haddin a genuine top order bat? Marsh is not the player everyone wants him to be.

That may be the case but he is a far better batter than Christian.
Australia needs a number 3 so it was Marsh, Khawaja or someone else who can bat 3. You wouldnt bring Christian in to bat 3

Nope you wouldn't bring Christian in to bat at three but what about RT Ponting? The guy might have done it a few times before. Sure he's not the player he once was but he's still better than any other alternative including Marsh. Allows Christian to bat at 6. Regardless, Watson will come back in for Sydney and i hope it's at the expense of Marsh not Hussey.

[mal]

AM BAYS
When Australia had a menu of say this attack
Mcgrath
Lee
Gillespie
Warne
Clark
Macgill
These guys were good enough to bowl Australia to more wins than losses, hence 4 of them were picked

The bowlers we have these days are a menu of [I will name as many as possible]
HILF
SIDDLE
PATTINSON
BOLLINGER
HARRIS
CUMMINS
STARC
JOHNSON
LYON

Now lets face some facts these guys are not as good as the bowlers AU had a decade ago
Some might be as good, time will tell
This attack needs a 5th bowler to assist them
Guys like Watson have done the job as a 5th bowler

This Indian team is a star studded batting line up
Shewag, Dravid, Tendulkar, Laxman are stars
Gambhir, Kholi are handy as well

To bowl 4 bowlers at this mob is not an option in my opinion
The Indians are likely wear this attack out over a 4 test series, as they did today

This side needs Watto, if he aint fit then the other options are in this order
Mitch Marsh
Dan Christian
Steve Smith [but not the answer]

They may as well bat 6 in the current batting line up that is not performing anyway

PS
4 bowlers has not consistently worked to well against India for a long time

[Jim05]

Yes Marsh had a poor innings but he is a genuine top order batter. Christian is a number 6 at best. As for Dan's bowling I think its pedestrian at best, struggle to see him getting a wicket at test level

A genuine top order bat would have made more than 7 hundreds in 65 first class games. He averages basically the same as Brad Haddin as well. Does that make Brad Haddin a genuine top order bat? Marsh is not the player everyone wants him to be.

That may be the case but he is a far better batter than Christian.
Australia needs a number 3 so it was Marsh, Khawaja or someone else who can bat 3. You wouldnt bring Christian in to bat 3

Nope you wouldn't bring Christian in to bat at three but what about RT Ponting? The guy might have done it a few times before. Sure he's not the player he once was but he's still better than any other alternative including Marsh. Allows Christian to bat at 6. Regardless, Watson will come back in for Sydney and i hope it's at the expense of Marsh not Hussey.

Ive said all along i would have persisted with Khawaja.
Dont think Ponting could handle 3 now. Very prone to the swinging ball, if we lost an opener early i wouldnt be confident Ponting would last an over. Ponting better now when the ball is 20 overs or more older.
Id rather them stick with Marsh and bring in Watto for Hussey.

[rod_rooster]

A genuine top order bat would have made more than 7 hundreds in 65 first class games. He averages basically the same as Brad Haddin as well. Does that make Brad Haddin a genuine top order bat? Marsh is not the player everyone wants him to be.

That may be the case but he is a far better batter than Christian.
Australia needs a number 3 so it was Marsh, Khawaja or someone else who can bat 3. You wouldnt bring Christian in to bat 3

Nope you wouldn't bring Christian in to bat at three but what about RT Ponting? The guy might have done it a few times before. Sure he's not the player he once was but he's still better than any other alternative including Marsh. Allows Christian to bat at 6. Regardless, Watson will come back in for Sydney and i hope it's at the expense of Marsh not Hussey.

Ive said all along i would have persisted with Khawaja.
Dont think Ponting could handle 3 now. Very prone to the swinging ball, if we lost an opener early i wouldnt be confident Ponting would last an over. Ponting better now when the ball is 20 overs or more older.
Id rather them stick with Marsh and bring in Watto for Hussey.

On what planet is Marsh anywhere near Hussey? Honestly i've been over this before. Marsh had a good series in Sri Lanka which is the only reason people could suggest he should be in the side now. It's not like he's been doing much lately. Hussey in the same series was man of the match in all three games and made twice as many runs. FFS Marsh doesn't average 40 in first class cricket. Hussey who had to make 15000 first class runs to get his chance to play Test cricket would have every right to feel ripped off being left out whilst a guy like Marsh gets a game having one nothing particularly impressive in his first class career.

I wonder if guys like Lehmann, Siddons, Hodge, Law, Love, Rogers, etc. etc. are wishing they played in an era where Marsh was in line for a Test spot.

[Phantom Gossiper]

And PG, dodgy decisions have pre dated test cricket as Edmond Barton found out in 1870. Good sides rise above that. And only one of those may have been reversed as Snicko isn't a valid DRS technology, it's a good TV gimick. Only the pitch in line, ball tracker and hot spot are the valid DRS technology, as I understand it. Cowan's would've have stayed as umpires call. I haven't seen a hot spot of his dismissal only the super slomos and snickos so I'm happy to be corrected on that.

I understand and agree that dodgy decisions have always had a part in sport, as a kid you learn to take the good with the bad etc. My point was more that the below par score cannot completely be blamed on poor batting or application.

The fact we copped two bad calls in the space of 10min completely ruined our momentum and swung the game India's way. We went from being 3 down to 6 in the blink of an eye and suddenly relying on the tail to get us to a decent total.

[Phantom Gossiper]

I like Marsh, but I dont think there is any way he should've even been considered for this test!

Time off with a serious back injury, and the only lead up to the biggest test on the calender is a stupid mickey mouse T20 game a couple of days prior?! WTF!!

Has T20 seriously become the form guide for Australias best cricketers??

[Pidge]

I like Marsh, but I dont think there is any way he should've even been considered for this test!

Time off with a serious back injury, and the only lead up to the biggest test on the calender is a stupid mickey mouse T20 game a couple of days prior?! WTF!!

Has T20 seriously become the form guide for Australias best cricketers??

Yes. That's how Warner got a call-up.

[Punk Rooster]

Indian
Cricket
Council

[CoverKing]

I like Marsh, but I dont think there is any way he should've even been considered for this test!

Time off with a serious back injury, and the only lead up to the biggest test on the calender is a stupid mickey mouse T20 game a couple of days prior?! WTF!!

Has T20 seriously become the form guide for Australias best cricketers??

Yes it was just a t20.

However, he did make some runs and in the field he ran nearly 15 kms. He gave it a big workout that day.

[Gozu]

Marsh is a great T20 batsman but as agreed with above he hasn't done enough in FC cricket to warrant a spot in the side.

Hopefully the selectors are realising the error of their ways in not picking an all-rounder who gives our bowling attack another option in Christian (and he is also the top runscorer in Shield cricket this season).

I don't really care who has to go Marsh or Hussey but someone should be for Christian.