Your Best 11...

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Re: Your Best 11...

Postby westozfalcon » Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:26 pm

GWW wrote:Wright and Edgar pick themselves.

What was Jeremy Coney's record like? I'd probably see him as NZ's Mike Brealey although thats probably unfair.

Blair Pocock a little unlucky to miss out.


Jeremy Coney averaged 37.58 over 52 tests and scored three centuries with a highest score of 174 so he was no mug with the bat. He got the nod over Stephen Fleming as captain in my best Kiwi XI because he led them in an amazingly successful era during which when they defeated both Australia and the West Indies in Test series away from home.

Fleming was the more accomplished batsman but Coney was a more disciplined and inspirational leader.
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Re: Your Best 11...

Postby wristwatcher » Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:31 pm

Jeremy Coney also had one of the best pair of hands in world cricket. I saw him take 3 blinders in one day at the Adelaide Oval. Not to mention he was a handy and decieving slow medium bowler probably more effective in one day cricket.
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Re: Your Best 11...

Postby Bulls forever » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:10 pm

Rik E Boy wrote:
Bulls forever wrote:
Rik E Boy wrote:The older Kiwis had to play the West Indians at their peak and did better against them than most. The newer players have inflated averages. I'd rather Botham instead of Kallis anyday of the week. Kallis has a fine record that is true but I am probably leaning towards players who have given the Aussies more trouble and Botham won one series against us singlehandly and was a key factor in another Ashes contest.

As for putting in the chucker you reckon that's cricket but I don't. Richards is the spinner in my world XI.

regards,

REB


REB, believe me when I say I am not a Murali fan, but unfortunately the rule changed to accomodate him and let him play. Having said that, they also changed the no ball rule and took the ability away from an umpire to call during play. Really, it was only Emerson and big bad Daryl who had the cohunas big enough to stand up - they both suffered as a result, but IMO will forever be remembered for having the balls to do what they did.

You didn't answer my question about the Aussies in World 11, from what you picked I would suggest it is anyone but.



If you read the whole thread then your question is answered. I named an Aussie XI and a World XI who might 'play' against them. Therefore no Aussies in the World XI. My World XI is also a team, not merely the eleven best averages. I selected an opening pair but I don't believe that Greenidge and Haynes suffer too much in comparision to Sunny. This is why I didn't select a spinner. Why would you need a tweaker in there with that fast bowling line up? Viv can roll the arm over when he's not out there peeling off blistering hundreds!

regards,

REB


No, you are right, got put off reading when they named the best NZ side of all time - who cares I would say, picking blokes that average 30 and declaring them certainties, FFS. Not all games would be played on quick decks, your team will go at 5 an over, would put Sunny in for balance, he can bat selfishly for 2 days and make 200 while the others blast around him.
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Re: Your Best 11...

Postby LBT » Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:46 pm

Nathan Astle would be in my Kiwi lineup.....81 tests, 11 centuries including 222 off 168 balls vs England.
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Re: Your Best 11...

Postby GWW » Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:15 pm

Astle would be borderline. Was a great one day player, and from that record his Test career does look good to. I probably wouldn't have him in before M Crowe, Howarth, Jones or Reid though.
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Re: Your Best 11...

Postby Moe » Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:46 am

World XI since I was born in 1971 (No Aussies)

1. Greenidge
2. Haynes
3. Richards
4. Gower
5. Tendulkar
6. Lara
7. Botham
8. Dujon
9. Holding
10. Ambrose
11. Waquar

12. Hadlee.
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Re: Your Best 11...

Postby GWW » Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:14 am

I'd have Hadlee as first bowler selected (first after mandatory West Indian selections anyway).
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Re: Your Best 11...

Postby Hondo » Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:22 pm

Moe wrote:World XI since I was born in 1971 (No Aussies)

1. Greenidge
2. Haynes
3. Richards
4. Gower
5. Tendulkar
6. Lara
7. Botham
8. Dujon
9. Holding
10. Ambrose
11. Waquar

12. Hadlee.


I reckon if you can't fit Botham into the top 6 batsman then you have to play Hadlee in front of him. I'd also have Marshall ahead of Waqar and Holding. Imran Khan and Kapil Dev? Ahead of Botham too if you are picking Botham as a bowler I reckon. Depending on your views on Murali 800 test wickets says to me he should be in consideration. As good as Haynes and Greenidge were I think the fact that they played in such a dominant side headlined by 4 outstanding bowlers maybe makes them seem in our memories better than other brilliant opening batsman of that era who have higher averages (Greenidge 44.72, Haynes 42.29). Not that I can immediately think of who should replace them in your side.

I am just throwing stones really without putting my own team up. I just feel it is a but West Indian heavy yet you've missed who I think was the best of West Indian bowler in that era (Marshall).
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Re: Your Best 11...

Postby Lightning McQueen » Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:27 pm

Hondo wrote:
Moe wrote:World XI since I was born in 1971 (No Aussies)

1. Greenidge
2. Haynes
3. Richards
4. Gower
5. Tendulkar
6. Lara
7. Botham
8. Dujon
9. Holding
10. Ambrose
11. Waquar

12. Hadlee.


I reckon if you can't fit Botham into the top 6 batsman then you have to play Hadlee in front of him. I'd also have Marshall ahead of Waqar and Holding. Imran Khan and Kapil Dev? Ahead of Botham too if you are picking Botham as a bowler I reckon. Depending on your views on Murali 800 test wickets says to me he should be in consideration. As good as Haynes and Greenidge were I think the fact that they played in such a dominant side headlined by 4 outstanding bowlers maybe elevates them ahead of other brilliant opening batsman.

I am just throwing stones really without putting my own team up. I just feel it is a but West Indian heavy yet you've missed who I think was the best of West Indian bowler in that era (Marshall).


Holding and Ambrose were better than Marshall IMO.
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Re: Your Best 11...

Postby Hondo » Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:30 pm

Allan Border rates Marshall as the best bowler he ever faced FWIW. I'd rank them as Marshall->Ambrose->Holding. All 3 were brilliant.

Marshall took 376 wickets at 20.94. Holding 249 wickets at 23.68. Ambrose 405 at 20.99. I looked up the stats after doing my rankings I promise ;)

On Moe's team I'd also look at Sangakarra over Dujon. Again, Dujon was a terrific player but if he is finding his way into these best of teams then arguably he is being over-rated because of the team he played in. Sangakarra averages 53 compared to Dujon's 31 with the bat.
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Re: Your Best 11...

Postby Lightning McQueen » Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:42 pm

Well you put a side together, I'm trying, it's not that easy.

Hayden
Tendulkar
Ponting
Lara
Kallis
S.Waugh (c)
Gilchrist
Akram
Warne
Ambrose
McGrath
Muraliduran

Had to pick 12, incase the pitch was turning.

Viv Richards, Kapil Dev and Imran Khan will be touring aswell.
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Re: Your Best 11...

Postby Lightning McQueen » Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:43 pm

Stats are one thing, the opposition that the stats were made against is another, watching Curtly bowl was just plain scary, even from the lounge.
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Re: Your Best 11...

Postby Hondo » Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:46 pm

Lightning McQueen wrote:Well you put a side together, I'm trying, it's not that easy.


There's too many different criterias in this thread so I won't even try TBH

I agree that World XIs over any period of time are very hard to pin down
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Re: Your Best 11...

Postby Lightning McQueen » Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:04 am

Hondo wrote:
Lightning McQueen wrote:Well you put a side together, I'm trying, it's not that easy.


There's too many different criterias in this thread so I won't even try TBH

I agree that World XIs over any period of time are very hard to pin down


People see things differently and era's are different styles of game, you also let emotions get in the way, Imran Khan and Kapil Dev wereprobably my two favourite players in the 80's but at the end of the day their stats don't look great against Kallis.
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Re: Your Best 11...

Postby Media Park » Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:34 am

Media Park wrote:Had an essay written on the best World XI of my time, but I hit the wrong button and it's all gone, so no explanations, here it is

Hayden- Two-toned opener. Not only did he average in the fifties, but as I've posted previously, his first career stanza was as a dominant and imposing opener, the second half, which began on the last test of the 2005 Ashes, he became a watchful accumulator of runs. Not as good to watch, but certainly as effective.
Sehwag- What's not to like? Shahid Afridi with the batting average. Generally these overly aggressive batsmen don't convert big time, yet Sehwag owns, among other things, two Test triple hundreds. Same number as Bradman. The fact is he can change a game in a session, and add in to that his handy off spinners.
Lara- The most beautiful strokes I have ever seen came from this man. The fact that the latter part of his career he was a batsman attempting to carry a poor team only increased my estimation of the man. Had the most Test runs when he retired, Still has the highest Test score.
Tendulkar- The day today, where I give reasons for my selection is the best possible chance for the Little Master to score his 100th international century. A flawless player, who dominated Warne and Murali their pomp, he owns most relevant batting records in this day. No better batsman since Bradman, although a young West Indian may go close.
Kallis- So in the hypothetical match, you've managed to get the opposition three down, and Kallis comes to the crease. Oft forgotten when names like Lara, Sachin, Dravid and Ponting are mentioned, Kallis stacks up admirably against them, is near impossible to shift from the crease, and is a quality medium pace bowler, with over 200 Test wickets.
Mohammed Yousuf- 90 Tests, probably missed another 30 through his problems with the board, and 1788 runs in 2006 alone showed the sort of player he was. Wouldn't have much pressure at number six in this team, he would simply play his shots and dominate along the way.
Boucher- In a World XI, with the batting on display above him, you simply select the best pure wicketkeeper. This was the only selection anyone queried, and I will admit, if I selected a wicketkeeper batsman, any of McCullum, Sangakkara or Gilchrist would be ahead of him, but purely as a wicketkeeper, the best of my time gets the nod.
Pollock- I saw the arse end of Pollock's career, gone was the zip that I have seen in old footage on youtube, more cunning and guile, but a 400-Test seamer, and a token ranga selection, coming in at number 8 would be a blessing, another guy who can hit. Probably relegated to a change bowler in this team, underpinning the quality of the other two pacemen.
Bond- A short Test career through injury. We saw his best, and it was better than the rest. Pure and simple. If he had been fit, no pace bowlers record would have stayed.
Muralitharan- History will show Murali as the best spin bowler in the history of the game. Strike-rates, averages, runs per over do not do justice to the record of Murali, the eyes bulging out of the socket, the revs on the ball, all speaks volumes more than the stats. Bent arm or otherwise.
McGrath- The best accurate seam bowler of the modern era. A ridiculous ability to land the ball in the right spot every time. So many different balls on his armoury. Couldn't bat to save himself.


Edited with reasoning.
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Re: Your Best 11...

Postby Moe » Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:56 am

Hondo wrote:
Moe wrote:World XI since I was born in 1971 (No Aussies)

1. Greenidge
2. Haynes
3. Richards
4. Gower
5. Tendulkar
6. Lara
7. Botham
8. Dujon
9. Holding
10. Ambrose
11. Waquar

12. Hadlee.


I reckon if you can't fit Botham into the top 6 batsman then you have to play Hadlee in front of him. I'd also have Marshall ahead of Waqar and Holding. Imran Khan and Kapil Dev? Ahead of Botham too if you are picking Botham as a bowler I reckon. Depending on your views on Murali 800 test wickets says to me he should be in consideration. As good as Haynes and Greenidge were I think the fact that they played in such a dominant side headlined by 4 outstanding bowlers maybe makes them seem in our memories better than other brilliant opening batsman of that era who have higher averages (Greenidge 44.72, Haynes 42.29). Not that I can immediately think of who should replace them in your side.

I am just throwing stones really without putting my own team up. I just feel it is a but West Indian heavy yet you've missed who I think was the best of West Indian bowler in that era (Marshall).

All your points are valid, but my team is picked purely on who I enjoyed watching the most, based on domination of bowling attacks or destroying batting lineups. Stats tell one story, but the sheer ability of everyone in my side (bar Dujon) is IMO second to none. Sangakarra came very close, but I would have had Gilly or Heals in front of all keepers every time anyway. I just loved Dujons swagger. As for Murili, I still think he is a cheat, sorry.
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Re: Your Best 11...

Postby Hondo » Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:30 am

Fair enough Moe

Just to be clear - just because I quoted some stats doesn't mean I would pick a team just on that basis. It's very tough to pick these teams.
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Re: Your Best 11...

Postby Moe » Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:59 am

Hondo wrote:Fair enough Moe

Just to be clear - just because I quoted some stats doesn't mean I would pick a team just on that basis. It's very tough to pick these teams.

Agreed.
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Re: Your Best 11...

Postby Kick'n Back » Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:29 am

I was born early 80's this would be my best Aussie side
1 Hayden
2 Langer
3 Ponting
4 Hussey
5 S.Waugh
6 Border
7 Gilchrist
8 Warne
9 Gillespie
10 McDermott
11 McGrath
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Re: Your Best 11...

Postby Pidge » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:54 pm

Hayden
Langer
Ponting
M Waugh
S Waugh
Hussey
Gilchrist
Warne
Bichel
Gillespie
McGrath
It's Somma Time!
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