(Miscellaneous debris)

[Gozu]

The House of Lords says that Christopher Monckton is not entitled to claim he is a member of that House, but he disputes this. The internet is full of scientists carefully debunking the claims about climate change made by him, but he is similarly impervious to correction.

Put simply, Lord Monckton is a case study of the emphasis placed by the media on confidence over content. A harder question for the media, however, is why they have given so much prominence to climate sceptics with no qualifications in science when they pay virtually no attention to immunisation sceptics without qualification in epidemiology or fluoride sceptics with no qualifications in chemistry or biology?

So, how do you debate someone who is impervious to evidence? It’s not easy, but here are a few suggestions.

http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/07/20/den ... -monckton/

[redandblack]

Nice cartoon

http://www.theage.com.au/national/abbot ... 1hqwx.html

[Psyber]

If he were pro ALP I bet they would defend his right to say it too..

[redandblack]

Given the events in the UK, it's wonderful to see Limited News crying foul over a possible inquiry into the media and privacy laws here. An inquiry, nothing else.

Meanwhile, it seems that James Murdoch may have been telling a few porkies to the Parliamentary Committee.

Watch this space

[Psyber]

I could believe the whole Murdoch enclave is lying and look forward to it coming out in time.
Perhaps MI5 or MI6 should hack their phones- if they haven't already!

[Leaping Lindner]

Nice cartoon

http://www.theage.com.au/national/abbot ... 1hqwx.html

Yes. But Tandberg is a baby eating, church burning, socialist, or he's a church eating, baby burning, socialist...I can't remember which.

[Psyber]

Nice cartoon

http://www.theage.com.au/national/abbot ... 1hqwx.html

Yes. But Tandberg is a baby eating, church burning, socialist, or he's a church eating, baby burning, socialist...I can't remember which.

It doesn't matter - all forms of this condition are evil..

Seriously, my only problem with outspoken socialists is that most of them seem, in my experience, to be bullies who think they should be allowed to impose on us what they think is good for us. Elliott Johnston, whom I know, is an exception - a Communist and a gentleman.

[redandblack]

Psyber, the term 'socialists' as applied to Australian politicians or supporters is a quaint, out-of-date and inaccurate term that I'm surprised someone with your knowledge still uses.

Are you referring to primary producers or business. They're the only people who I think favour socialism?

[Psyber]

Psyber, the term 'socialists' as applied to Australian politicians or supporters is a quaint, out-of-date and inaccurate term that I'm surprised someone with your knowledge still uses.
Are you referring to primary producers or business. They're the only people who I think favour socialism?

I followed up LL's use of the term - perhaps I should have put quotes around the word in my serious addition.

But it is still in the English language as the on line Oxford indicates:

socialist:
noun - a person who advocates or practises socialism.
adjective - adhering to or based on the principles of socialism
socialism: political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

That doesn't seem totally inapplicable to the Australian situation..

[redandblack]

Comment 1: No problem, understood.

DEfinition of socialism: I maintain my argument, mate. No-one advocates that any more .

PS: Business and Primary production thoughts?

[Psyber]

Comment 1: No problem, understood.
DEfinition of socialism: I maintain my argument, mate. No-one advocates that any more .
PS: Business and Primary production thoughts?

I haven't paid much attention to them lately, but I do think business tends to be self-centred, and farming is a business now.
However, I do think it is any country's interest to try to be self-sufficient in food production, and worth subsidising agriculture if necessary to maintain that.
That is not just because of the risk of blockade in war, which drives Japan and Germany in agriculture, but because of the CO2 emissions spent shipping food in from overseas.

[redandblack]

I notice Mr Hockey said he would abolish the Dept of Climate Change or whatever they're called. He said they put out false figures, so he'd sack them.

Do you think this is a worrying trend from the Coalition?

Scientists - they disagree with us, so they're wrong.

Economists - disagree with us, so that says more about them than us.

Treasury - disagree with us, so they can't be trusted.

Public Servants - put out figures disagreeing with us, so they're wrong.

Are the coalition the only ones in step?

[Squawk]

One dedicated to R&B - from the Murdoch Press, too
The comments are an equally interesting read as well.

Australia’s bipartisan balance sheet

http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/mumble/index.php/theaustralian/comments/net_debt/

[redandblack]

Thanks for that, Squawk, I'm humbled

Yes, I had already seen that.

Interesting read, although I don't take much notice of most of the comments.

[scoob]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14486128

unemployment up - growth forecasts down and worries of the implications of a two paced economy

[redandblack]

Yes, scoob, managing such an economy is difficult.

Tht's why I supported the original MRRT proposal, especially in light of the profit announcements made since.

At least it might mean a drop in interest rates, hopefully.

[Q.]

A theory that is particularly crushing for this stickler of facts:

How facts backfire

It’s one of the great assumptions underlying modern democracy that an informed citizenry is preferable to an uninformed one. “Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government,” Thomas Jefferson wrote in 1789. This notion, carried down through the years, underlies everything from humble political pamphlets to presidential debates to the very notion of a free press. Mankind may be crooked timber, as Kant put it, uniquely susceptible to ignorance and misinformation, but it’s an article of faith that knowledge is the best remedy. If people are furnished with the facts, they will be clearer thinkers and better citizens. If they are ignorant, facts will enlighten them. If they are mistaken, facts will set them straight.

In the end, truth will out. Won’t it?

Maybe not. Recently, a few political scientists have begun to discover a human tendency deeply discouraging to anyone with faith in the power of information. It’s this: Facts don’t necessarily have the power to change our minds. In fact, quite the opposite. In a series of studies in 2005 and 2006, researchers at the University of Michigan found that when misinformed people, particularly political partisans, were exposed to corrected facts in news stories, they rarely changed their minds. In fact, they often became even more strongly set in their beliefs. Facts, they found, were not curing misinformation. Like an underpowered antibiotic, facts could actually make misinformation even stronger.

[Psyber]

I just came across this while browsing the 'net: http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/latest/100 ... n-disgust/

Former treasurer quits ALP in disgust - AAP August 15, 2011, 2:39 am

Former federal treasurer John Kerin has resigned from the Labor Party in disgust, claiming factional heavies had ruined the ALP for rank-and-file members.

The minister in the Hawke and Keating governments told News Limited that Labor had become a "reign of terror from the top" of the organisation.
Mr Kerin, who briefly served as treasurer in the Hawke government, said the only role for members was to hand out how-to-vote cards on election day.
"I believe the administrative arm of the party should not become involved in the policy arm to the extent that it has," he said.
"Riding over rank-and-file membership in preselections has left little role for rank-and-file members other than handing out how to votes and stuffing letter boxes."

Mr Kerin, now 73, also held the trade and primary industry portfolios during his political career.
He is one of the most high-profile figures to resign from the Labor Party, which has seen its membership plummet by 10,000 since 2002.
The former economist held the federal seat of Werriwa, in southwest Sydney, before Mark Latham won it in a 1994 by-election.

[scoob]

I just came across this while browsing the 'net: http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/latest/100 ... n-disgust/

Former treasurer quits ALP in disgust - AAP August 15, 2011, 2:39 am

Former federal treasurer John Kerin has resigned from the Labor Party in disgust, claiming factional heavies had ruined the ALP for rank-and-file members.

The minister in the Hawke and Keating governments told News Limited that Labor had become a "reign of terror from the top" of the organisation.
Mr Kerin, who briefly served as treasurer in the Hawke government, said the only role for members was to hand out how-to-vote cards on election day.
"I believe the administrative arm of the party should not become involved in the policy arm to the extent that it has," he said.
"Riding over rank-and-file membership in preselections has left little role for rank-and-file members other than handing out how to votes and stuffing letter boxes."

Mr Kerin, now 73, also held the trade and primary industry portfolios during his political career.
He is one of the most high-profile figures to resign from the Labor Party, which has seen its membership plummet by 10,000 since 2002.
The former economist held the federal seat of Werriwa, in southwest Sydney, before Mark Latham won it in a 1994 by-election.

No comments on the topic Psybes - don't think there will be many on this story either

http://www.news.com.au/national/labors- ... 6116381753

[redandblack]

I agree with him, he's got a fair point.