Federal Government proposes a price on carbon.

[redandblack]

http://www.freestatevoice.com.au/politics/item/766-four-big-lies-about-carbon-pollution

Now you're quoting crackpot sites

Did you read the bit where the've seceded from the illegal Howard Government

[scoob]

Just a quick question that someone with a bit more knowledge than myself may be able to answer...
Has it every been calculated how much carbon dioxide each country absorbs? We often hear that we as Australians, produce one of the highest amounts in the world per capita, but what are our 'net' contributions. Would be an interesting comparison to see versus UK/Europe/Asia/USA.

[straight talker]

pearler.. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/gal ... 6105692475

[straight talker]

gillard says mining jobs are safe!! http://www.rossfitzgerald.com/2011/07/p ... -to-haunt/

[redandblack]

gillard says mining jobs are safe!! http://www.rossfitzgerald.com/2011/07/p ... -to-haunt/

st, for the umpteenth time, you said the PM said "not one job would be lost". So far, you haven't been able to show us where she ever said that. That quote is a lot different to saing coal jobs are safe, which is a very general statement.

Point 2: Your link is to a climate change sceptic. The one thing most of your links have in common is that the person involved has appeared on the Bolt Report, such as Professor Fitzgerald.

Bad news. The Bolt Report ratings have tanked. Only 114,000 watched last Sunday morning, the lowest ever. Most people watch him for a while and then realise he's not credible and give it away. He's just left with his cheer squad now.

[fish]

...do you get your info from the believer sites??

Nope - from credible scientific sources such as the CSIRO or any of the worlds peak scientific bodies.

[fish]

Just a quick question that someone with a bit more knowledge than myself may be able to answer...
Has it every been calculated how much carbon dioxide each country absorbs? We often hear that we as Australians, produce one of the highest amounts in the world per capita, but what are our 'net' contributions. Would be an interesting comparison to see versus UK/Europe/Asia/USA.

Good question scoob.

You are right that Australias carbon dioxide emissions per person are amongst the highest in the world. According to wikipedia we emit about 18.9 tonnes of CO2 per capita per annum, higher than most countries in the world including China (4.9 tonnes/person), India (1.4 tonnes per person) and even the United States (17.5 tonnes/person).

The question of how much each country absorbs is much more difficult - I've been unable to find any country by country comparisons and it looks like it depends largely on land management practices. This page gives a background on natural carbon sinks, how they can be augmented and some info on "artificial" sinks.

On a global scale the sinks are currently not managing to absorb the emissions from human activity, as evidenced from the increasing atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide since industrialisation.

This article gives a little more detail:

The stabilising influence that land and ocean carbon sinks have on rising carbon emissions is gradually weakening, say scientists attending this week’s international Copenhagen Climate Change Conference.

“Forests, grasslands and oceans are absorbing carbon dioxide (CO2) from the atmosphere faster than ever but they are not keeping pace with rapidly rising emissions,” says CSIRO scientist and co-Chair of the Global Carbon Project, Dr Mike Raupach.

“While these natural CO2 sinks are a huge buffer against climate change, which would occur about twice as fast without them, they cannot be taken for granted.”

[fish]

http://www.freestatevoice.com.au/politics/item/766-four-big-lies-about-carbon-pollution

Now you're quoting crackpot sites

Did you read the bit where the've seceded from the illegal Howard Government

...and flouridation!

[fish]

...but how is what gillard wants the country to undertake when countries like china are building 30 coal fired power stations a week going to help.?

st I share your concerns about China's emissions and their contribution to global climate change.

However this does not prevent me from believing that my country Australia should do our bit to curb our own emissions - after all we emit over three times as much carbon dioxide per person than China does.

Until there is a binding global agreement on emissions reductions and targets there will probably always be arguments about which country is doing more or less to curb their emissions than others, but finger pointing gets us nowhere.

In the meantime I don't believe China will be inclined to develop with a low carbon intensity if developed countries, including Australia, are doing nothing or very little to reduce their own emissions.

[dedja]

You're quite right st, won't make any difference.

Similarly, there's litter everywhere so why use a bin? ... it won't make any difference if I just throw my rubbish on the ground, will it?

[straight talker]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sc ... al_warming

[straight talker]

well when people lose their jobs companies close inflation goes thru the roof rates go up i dont think this is the best way to go about it and by the sounds of it neither does the majority of Australians!

[Gozu]

You're quite right st, won't make any difference.

Similarly, there's litter everywhere so why use a bin? ... it won't make any difference if I just throw my rubbish on the ground, will it?

That's exactly what I say when confronted with a flat-earther. If everyone is throwing their rubbish on the ground, is it okay if I do the same?

[dedja]

well when people lose their jobs companies close inflation goes thru the roof rates go up i dont think this is the best way to go about it and by the sounds of it neither does the majority of Australians!

A fan of Chicken Little perhaps?

[redandblack]

well when people lose their jobs companies close inflation goes thru the roof rates go up i dont think this is the best way to go about it and by the sounds of it neither does the majority of Australians!

No, if people lose their jobs and companies close, then inflation and interest rates usually go down.

Right now in Australia, though, unemployment is very low, inflation is low and interest rates are low (They were 6.75% when John Howard left, they're now 4.75%).

I agree that if the opposite happened, people wouldn't be happy, so it's good it's not happening.

Do you agree with the figures above, st, and if you do, why do you keep stating the opposite?

If you disagree, can you tell me where my figures are wrong?

[fish]

Scoob following on from my post about carbon sinks I found these articles on the ABC website today:

Farming and the carbon tax, which includes info on land-based carbon capture and storage.

Scientists create carbon sponge

"Scientists in the United States have created an entirely new porous material which has a high capacity for capturing carbon dioxide.

The procedure is usually expensive and energy intensive, but this time scientists say it is relatively low cost and it may be useful to capture emissions from coal-fired power stations.

Australian experts say it is a fundamental advance but is still many years away from practical application".

And this one from WA.

"Industry in Western Australia's south west has welcomed federal funding for what could be the state's first on-shore carbon capture and storage facility.

The government has allocated $52 million to the Collie facility which would capture CO2 from nearby industry and store it underground, cutting the state's carbon dioxide emissions by up to 10 per cent.

The funding will be used to pay for a detailed feasibility study.

Perdaman Chemicals and Fertilisers plans to establish a $3.5 billion dollar urea plant in the area and is one of six companies which would contribute to the total cost of the project".

And finally this one that casts doubt over the efficacy of trees for greenhouse gas storage.

"US scientists have found that the more carbon dioxide goes into soil, the more the soil releases other, more potent, greenhouse gases.

This means Australian companies planting trees to soak up CO2 in return for Carbon Credit Units under the carbon tax may not actually be counteracting their emissions.

The study, published in the science journal Nature, found that plants taking up more carbon dioxide resulted in an accelerated production of nitrous oxide and methane".

[Psyber]

... And finally this one that casts doubt over the efficacy of trees for greenhouse gas storage.
"US scientists have found that the more carbon dioxide goes into soil, the more the soil releases other, more potent, greenhouse gases.
This means Australian companies planting trees to soak up CO2 in return for Carbon Credit Units under the carbon tax may not actually be counteracting their emissions.
The study, published in the science journal Nature, found that plants taking up more carbon dioxide resulted in an accelerated production of nitrous oxide and methane".

Right! So, maybe the local council will let me remove the "significant tree" a little close to my house for my comfort in the fire season, but whose trunk is outside the defined distance from the building. I bet they'll still make me plant several to replace it...

[straight talker]

we will see about rates today after the board meeting! Inflation on the rise!!?? If you are fair dinkum you will surely agree this carbon tax is going to make a lot of companies struggle to survive and people will lose there jobs. Its going to be harder for a lot of Australians.

[straight talker]

http://www.minnesotansforglobalwarming. ... rming.html

[tipper]

we will see about rates today after the board meeting! Inflation on the rise!!?? If you are fair dinkum you will surely agree this carbon tax is going to make a lot of companies struggle to survive and people will lose there jobs. Its going to be harder for a lot of Australians.

well, rates didnt go up........