CRAIG STEPS DOWN AS COACH

[overloaded]

No, but I think he will stay employed in the game at club level in some capacity somewhere.

do you think he should have stayed for next season Hondo?

[White Line Fever]

Will be very interesting as to how the playing group respond to this.

Good call by Craigy and I'm just bemused as to how long a 'Sack Bickley' thread will take to appear...

[Hondo]

No, but I think he will stay employed in the game at club level in some capacity somewhere.

do you think he should have stayed for next season Hondo?

As head coach? No. I think it was the right time for the change.

[Hondo]

Maybe it is convenient. I looked up Mark Williams and his was 42% (with more years outside of finals than Craig). Bar a ridiculously freak result in the final match of the 2008 season, Adelaide were top 4 that year. Adelaide won 1 out of 6 games against top 4 sides that year. In 2009, when many were calling Adelaide a legit premiership threat heading into the finals, they won 1 out of 8 games against top 4 sides. This is why they were flat track bullies. They used to get very positive press after thrashing sides lower on the ladder but would inevitably fail to deliver when it mattered against teams that mattered.

I think that is where we are disagreeing. In hindsight, I think our 2008 and 2009 ladder finishes were about right and your stats show this. Our real opportunity was in 05 and 06 and I think you'll find all the W-L stats v the top sides were a lot more in Craig's favour in those years. I think after 2006 as the veterans started to retire us Crows fans hoped we were a genuine top 4 side but in reality we probably weren't. Absolutely the local media hyped us up particularly at the end of 2009 but I think you are right in that we just couldn't beat the top 4 sides that year. A lot of sensible Crows fans knew this and so expected to lose that final against Collingwood.

If you are the 5th best side and you finish 5th is that an achievement, underachievement ... I don't know the answer. I think your argument is more with the local media rather than Neil Craig?

[Hondo]

Bugga I enjoyed him coaching the crows, 55% win/loss record, has there ever been someone so mediocre go for so long?

If 55% is "mediocre" then the following coaches are mediocre:

- Alistair Clarkson 52%
- Rodney Eade 54%
- Dennis Pagan 50%
(I just picked out a sample)

And to the end of 2010, Malthouse's record at Collingwood was 54%. He is 58% all time thanks to some brilliant years and teams in Perth.

You will mention premierships and I have no answer for you that. But you didn't mention this when you posted. You simply said 55% was mediocre. If you had researched you would have found that anything above 50% is good and 50-60% is the range of most good coaches.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/afl_ ... pe=&sort=o

[mighty_tiger_79]

hows Brad Scotts record??

[Hondo]

I saw that .. 88%

[mighty_tiger_79]

I saw that .. 88%

that could be Chris Scott

[Hondo]

Oh yes, woops. I see - you were picking up on Brad Scott's 48% record ...

Dutchy is that "mediocre"? It's not even 50%!

On the other hand, Chris Scott is gunning it!

[Mopar Dog]

Bugga I enjoyed him coaching the crows, 55% win/loss record, has there ever been someone so mediocre go for so long?

If 55% is "mediocre" then the following coaches are mediocre:

- Alistair Clarkson 52%
- Rodney Eade 54%
- Dennis Pagan 50%
(I just picked out a sample)

And to the end of 2010, Malthouse's record at Collingwood was 54%. He is 58% all time thanks to some brilliant years and teams in Perth.

You will mention premierships and I have no answer for you that. But you didn't mention this when you posted. You simply said 55% was mediocre. If you had researched you would have found that anything above 50% is good and 50-60% is the range of most good coaches.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/afl_ ... pe=&sort=o

What a watse of time that post was.

HONDO as you stated you cant compare premiership coaches and those who have got their team to a GF, with those who have never ever managed to gets its team past prelims.

YOu wanted craig sacked. BUt now you are defending his coaching.

YOu are aware its the AFC are allowed to be criticised FFS!!

[Psyber]

What a watse of time that post was.
HONDO as you stated you cant compare premiership coaches and those who have got their team to a GF, with those who have never ever managed to gets its team past prelims.
YOu wanted craig sacked. BUt now you are defending his coaching.
YOu are aware its the AFC are allowed to be criticised FFS!!

Pot calling the kettlke black Mopar!
I thought Hondo was being fair and balanced, and seemed to be, productively, adding a few facts to help keep this rational.

[Hondo]

What a watse of time that post was.
HONDO as you stated you cant compare premiership coaches and those who have got their team to a GF, with those who have never ever managed to gets its team past prelims.
YOu wanted craig sacked. BUt now you are defending his coaching.
YOu are aware its the AFC are allowed to be criticised FFS!!

I think you misunderstood my post. I was responding to Dutchy's comment in which he ONLY talked about the W-L ratio. A W-L ratio that is actually pretty good by comparison to most coaches. There's not many premiership coaches out there. Had Craigy been one of them he may still be the coach. I think sometimes a premiership buys too many gold passes for some coaches TBH.

But, overall, I don't think a 55% W-L ratio over 7 years is "mediocre". So I am defending Craig to the extent that I don't think "mediocre" is the right word. That doesn't mean I think the right word should be "great".

[CUTTERMAN]

If the word "great" is being brought up from my post then I'll try to explain what I meant. Craig obviously isn't one of the "greats" when it comes to AFL coaches, but not many really are, he may never be remembered as one of Adelaides best coaches but I think he has brought with him alot of stability, professionalism and honesty into the club. He has always said that he would put the club before himself and he has done so. I think it would be very hard for a coach to maintain a stable environment at a club over 7 years especially when some all time greats are retiring, I think he has done this well and maintained a healthy perspective during it. He almost took the club to two GF's with pretty much the same list as Ayres had. So, I think Craig has been a great influence and coach for the club, it's gone pear-shaped and his time has gone but for most of his time there he's proven himself a worthy coach.

[Hondo]

Sorry Cutterman I didn't mean to drag you into my argument with Mopar Dog. I used the word "great" off my own back. I didn't realise you had used it earlier.

I agree with your sentiments though. To dismiss what he and the club achieved from 2005-2011 as mediocre is grossly unfair. We had some great times. I was at the Essendon final in 2009 and it was one of the best Crows performances I have watched live. With a little bit of luck we might have made a GF in 05 or 06 and made a prelim final in 09. We didn't and now it is time for a fresh start.

[Footy Smart]

Sorry Cutterman I didn't mean to drag you into my argument with Mopar Dog. I used the word "great" off my own back. I didn't realise you had used it earlier.

I agree with your sentiments though. To dismiss what he and the club achieved from 2005-2011 as mediocre is grossly unfair. We had some great times. I was at the Essendon final in 2009 and it was one of the best Crows performances I have watched live. With a little bit of luck we might have made a GF in 05 or 06 and made a prelim final in 09. We didn't and now it is time for a fresh start.

good post Hondo.... sums it up plain and simple!

Its funny how the people who cant bag NC have now moved onto Triggy

[Mopar Dog]

What a watse of time that post was.
HONDO as you stated you cant compare premiership coaches and those who have got their team to a GF, with those who have never ever managed to gets its team past prelims.
YOu wanted craig sacked. BUt now you are defending his coaching.
YOu are aware its the AFC are allowed to be criticised FFS!!

I think you misunderstood my post. I was responding to Dutchy's comment in which he ONLY talked about the W-L ratio. A W-L ratio that is actually pretty good by comparison to most coaches. There's not many premiership coaches out there. Had Craigy been one of them he may still be the coach. I think sometimes a premiership buys too many gold passes for some coaches TBH.

But, overall, I don't think a 55% W-L ratio over 7 years is "mediocre". So I am defending Craig to the extent that I don't think "mediocre" is the right word. That doesn't mean I think the right word should be "great".

I havent misunderstood at all. The last two posts against Criag made by Dutchy and Macca you have picked out severe technicalities out of their stats to make a feeble case for craig being a successful coach. Why ??? Its ingrained in you to defend crows at all costs maybe.

Do you really need Dutchy/myself/Macca to point out the coaches you talk about in comparison to craig have achieved so much more than neil craig that its ridiculous to compare. As you say If Craig had achieved what the above coaches had acheived he probably wouldnt be sacked. The reality is he didnt achieve what they did and was never going to. Thus why he got the a$$.

Question for anyone to answer : What was the average crows attendance when criag started ??? What is it now ??

How many loyal/traditional crows fans has he turned away ??

What was the crows average attendance when Gary Ayres started ??? what was it when he leaved ????

[Footy Smart]

What a watse of time that post was.
HONDO as you stated you cant compare premiership coaches and those who have got their team to a GF, with those who have never ever managed to gets its team past prelims.
YOu wanted craig sacked. BUt now you are defending his coaching.
YOu are aware its the AFC are allowed to be criticised FFS!!

I think you misunderstood my post. I was responding to Dutchy's comment in which he ONLY talked about the W-L ratio. A W-L ratio that is actually pretty good by comparison to most coaches. There's not many premiership coaches out there. Had Craigy been one of them he may still be the coach. I think sometimes a premiership buys too many gold passes for some coaches TBH.

But, overall, I don't think a 55% W-L ratio over 7 years is "mediocre". So I am defending Craig to the extent that I don't think "mediocre" is the right word. That doesn't mean I think the right word should be "great".

I havent misunderstood at all. The last two posts against Criag made by Dutchy and Macca you have picked out severe technicalities out of their stats to make a feeble case for craig being a successful coach. Why ??? Have to defend crows at all costs ???

Do you really need Dutchy/myself/Macca to point out the coaches you talk about in comparison to craig have achieved so much more than neil craig that its ridiculous to compare. As you say If Craig had achieved what the above coaches had acheived he probably wouldnt be sacked. The reality is he didnt achieve what they did and was never going to.

Thus why he got the a$$.

Question for anyone to answer : What was the average crows attendance when criag started ??? What is it now ??

How many loyal/traditional crows fans has he turned away ??

What was the crows average attendance when Gary Ayres started ??? what was it when he leaved ????

You cannot attribute crowd attendances to NC.... Far to many variables to even consider that question.

Next thing NC would have been responsible for Amy Winehouse addiction

[Mopar Dog]

What a watse of time that post was.
HONDO as you stated you cant compare premiership coaches and those who have got their team to a GF, with those who have never ever managed to gets its team past prelims.
YOu wanted craig sacked. BUt now you are defending his coaching.
YOu are aware its the AFC are allowed to be criticised FFS!!

I think you misunderstood my post. I was responding to Dutchy's comment in which he ONLY talked about the W-L ratio. A W-L ratio that is actually pretty good by comparison to most coaches. There's not many premiership coaches out there. Had Craigy been one of them he may still be the coach. I think sometimes a premiership buys too many gold passes for some coaches TBH.

But, overall, I don't think a 55% W-L ratio over 7 years is "mediocre". So I am defending Craig to the extent that I don't think "mediocre" is the right word. That doesn't mean I think the right word should be "great".

I havent misunderstood at all. The last two posts against Craig made by Dutchy and Macca you have picked out severe technicalities out of their stats to make a feeble case for craig being a successful coach. Why ??? Ingrained to defend crows at all costs maybe.

Do you really need Dutchy/myself/Macca to point out the coaches you talk about in comparison to craig have achieved so much more than neil craig that its ridiculous to compare. As you say If Craig had achieved what the above coaches had acheived he probably wouldnt be sacked. The reality is he didnt achieve what they did and was never going to.

Thus why he got the a$$.

Question for anyone to answer : What was the average crows attendance when craig started ??? What is it now ??

How many loyal/traditional crows fans has he turned away ??

What was the crows average attendance when Gary Ayres started ??? what was it when he leaved ????

You cannot attribute crowd attendances to NC.... Far to many variables to even consider that question.

Next thing NC would have been responsible for Amy Winehouse addiction

So you can categorically say not one crows fans stopped getting a season ticket due to Neil Craigs coaching.

And if you cant ??? how is it an unfair question ???

[Hondo]

Do you really need Dutchy/myself/Macca to point out the coaches you talk about in comparison to craig have achieved so much more than neil craig that its ridiculous to compare. As you say If Craig had achieved what the above coaches had acheived he probably wouldnt be sacked. The reality is he didnt achieve what they did and was never going to. Thus why he got the a$$.

You are talking about a relative handful of coaches who achieve premiership success. If anyone who doesn't is mediocre then most coaches in history are mediocre. Fine. There's a good chance that Brad and Chris Scott will end up as "mediocre" coaches too then. Most of them will be. Bomber Thompson will therefore be one of the greatest coaches of all time with 2 premierships. Is he? It's a good debate for another thread.

I think it's you who is too defensive BTW, not me. I am just trying to have a rational discussion about Craig's coaching record and you seem to be flying off the handle at any attempt to say his record is anything other than terrible.

[Hondo]

I think Mopar has some prejudices about Crows fans BTW! I have read some of his theories over on the SANFL board. Mopar, some of us don't fit your mould. If you think what we are doing is defending the Crows for the sake of defending them then you are wrong. The performances this year have been completely unacceptable. The worst I can recall.