moral and ethical standards of players and clubs

[test]

How is where and what grade someone plays a game of football at an extremely amateur level an indication of their moral or ethical standards? Seriously, I am one of those players who this season is stating where I would prefer to play and I give you the strong tip I sleep well at night in terms of my personal morals and ethics. I have been asked to play at a C grade level from our C grade coach and I have said I would prefer to stay in the D grade. The same has been asked of possibly one or two others and the C grade coach has respected our wishes. In our instance I guarantee you that in any given week we could swap our entire C grade side from the week before and play our D grade side there and the results would be the same regardless. To think that any club would be sitting in the board room on a Thursday night saying, lets play our best side in the D grade to get at least one flag is ridiculous. Pretty sure if we are lucky enough to get one in our D grade this year but we end up getting relegated to Div4 we will focus on that result rather than the D grade win. I pay to play football. I choose to play D grade with my mates. We beat Modbury's D grade in a GF in 08 when I was playing C grade, they were strong then and I think most of those good players are still playing in the same grade now?

Great post, surely having guys playing footy is the most important thing? Getting out the house on a Saturday, being with mates, doing something you love, that's why we play yes?? If a clubs lower side is stronger due to players lack of commitment to training etc thats tough luck to their opponents. regardless of if a guys playing a grade or d grade when you face him on a Saturday he's just another opponent. We play against guys every week who are better then div 4, quite a few of our boys are too, are we morally and ethically wrong to enjoy playing footy with our mates? HTFU

[Jabber]

If your rubbish you can play with your mates, but if your good you can't!

[mypaddock]

Have to agree with the sentiments of the last three or four posts.
This is AMATEUR football FFS! Who cares what grade a guy chooses to play at.

I choose to play at my club because I have mates playing there, no other reason. When I first started playing there we were in Div 3, eventually falling to Div 6, now climbing our way back into Div 4 this season. Does that make myself or any of my mates immoral or unethical when we were playing Div 6? I think not.
As long as a player is there to enjoy himself that's the main thing isn't it? I mean at the end of the day we play because we enjoy it, can't see how a person choosing to play sport for fun can ever be accused of being immoral or unethical.

Flawed argument Deeman.

[D14]

I also agree with the last few posts. Are you saying that every player who wins a B,C,D... Best and Fairest doesn't have moral and ethical standards because they haven't pushed themselves to play in the next grade up?

I know your more leaning towards the teams where the A's are near the bottom and B's near the top, but maybe those teams just have a lot of players who are at the same level. The bottom 10 players from the A's are very similar to the top 10 in the B's.

I guess if the higher grade team is in desperate need of a player for a 1 off game and the player in the lower grade refuses to play for no genuine reason (some people can't play at 2.10, for work and other reasons) then yes that is a problem, but to be honest I can't see this happening to often and if it does then its likely to be an isolated case.

[Hefty]

Have to agree with the sentiments of the last three or four posts.
This is AMATEUR football FFS! Who cares what grade a guy chooses to play at.

I choose to play at my club because I have mates playing there, no other reason. When I first started playing there we were in Div 3, eventually falling to Div 6, now climbing our way back into Div 4 this season. Does that make myself or any of my mates immoral or unethical when we were playing Div 6? I think not.
As long as a player is there to enjoy himself that's the main thing isn't it? I mean at the end of the day we play because we enjoy it, can't see how a person choosing to play sport for fun can ever be accused of being immoral or unethical.

Flawed argument Deeman.

Yep like it. People who get on here and have a bit of a wah wah about clubs "stacking" sides need to look at their own club first. If playing footy with your mates it's classed as "stacking" then we are "stacking" our C6 side!

[dee man]

lets answer a few of these barbs since it seems to be a hot topic

by amature i take it their is no payments in the SAAFL?
their are no inducements at clubs?
i take it clubs havent gone broke or are in trouble financially because they are trying to keep up with the other clubs that are paying,even tho they are amature

no,their not the points i was bringing to the argument
others have taken that way
might points were about the clubs that for their own gain make descions effecting lower level divisions based on the fact they cant cut it in their own so their for try to grab a flag for their own ego
if guys want to play with their mates because of age,work,family reasons what ever i dont have a problem
but when clubs do it during the season when they have no chance of making it in the higher well then i have a problem
players playing lower levels because they dont agree with a coach or get played not where they want then i have a problem
players dictating to a club what the rules will be and where and when they will play i have a problem
but then again we are only amature teams and their is no inducement except fun
i deffinately have it wrong then

[Jabber]

If thats the case then its up to the club in question - if they want to stack a B grade or C grade or whatever to the detriment of the A Grade then they will eventually be found out by not winning games up higher or in severe cases relegation. Thats nobody else's business but the Club itself.

The Club certainly does not hold any obligation to the club its playing against to choose a team that is of the same standard as the opposition, no way in the world. And if the club is in a position to be able to leave good players in low divisions and still perform well in higher grades well thats cudos to the club for working hard, doing the hard yards and creating a strong squad of players to choose from.

All these good players don't just drop off trees and land at clubs, the clubs work hard to gain alot of them, and once they are there they can do with them as they see fit!

[test]

Why is it your problem, or even your business? Just because occasionally your team will come up against a side much stronger then yours? Perhaps worry about your own backyard, control what you can control, and as long as it not going on in your club you won't have a problem

[D14]

But your not talking about guys who might get some cash to play because I wouldn't think there would be many clubs out there who will happily pay someone to play B or C grade

I just had a look at all of the ladders

Div 1 - Top 2 teams in B's are 3rd & 4th in A's
........... Bottom 3 teams are the same in both A's & B's

Div 2 - Top 2 teams in B's are mid table in A's
........... Bottom 2 teams in A's bottom 5 range in B's

Div 3 - Top 2 teams in B's are top 5 in A's
........... Bottom 2 teams in A's bottom 5 in B's

Div 4 - Top 2 teams in B's are top 3 in A's
........... Bottom 2 teams in A's bottom 5 in B's

Div 5 - Top 2 teams in B's are top 4 in A's
........... Bottom team in A's is 3rd in B's
******** But bottom in A's is only 1 game from 3rd so doesn't count ********

Div 6 - Top 2 teams in B's are top 5 in A's
........... Bottom 2 teams in A's 4&6 in B's

Div 7 - Top team in B's is 3rd in A's
........... 2nd B's (D grade) is 2nd Bottom A's (C grade)
........... Bottom team is same in both

C Grades mainly follow the higher grades with teams having similar ladder positions between A-B-C-D-E-F

So in all the Divs only Modbury (C and D Grade) in Div 7 have a lower grade team way out performing the higher team. (I am not saying Modbury are doing anything wrong).

This is hardly a major problem we are facing in SAAFL.

Yes some teams are stronger than others but **** happens sometimes.

[dee man]

Why is it your problem, or even your business? Just because occasionally your team will come up against a side much stronger then yours? Perhaps worry about your own backyard, control what you can control, and as long as it not going on in your club you won't have a problem

to be honest test,i havent complained against anyone in my division
we have been beaten badley by two clubs by 120 and 60 points
never complained because we were beaten by better teams,be trained,better drilled and probably better coached
as for why is it any of my business
the well being of the league is my business.and yours and everyone who is involved in it
because if people dont care about the league,how it is run and the clubs,we wont have a league to play in
and if people are happy watching people leave the league and clubs go under because they cant afford to compete in this amature league well we are not going to have a league
as for my club,yes we have alot of work to do to even get to a stage that we can compare to most clubs but we and i for sure never begrudge any club trying to better it self or work harder than others to gain success
but if getting a fat over premierships in lower divisions while having people that could or should be playing higher is their thing well i am in the minority then

[LaughingKookaburra]

I think Deeman has a right to ask an opinion. Personally I couldn't give a rats how clubs operate their on field and off field dramas. I'm there to play footy, talk s--t with my mates, have a few beers (and then get dragged to the Woolshed) and keep fit . Also imo there is 1 club in the league who pretty much goes against all morals mentioned. This club is also the most succesful amateur football club in Australia. Maybe we can all learn a thing or 2 from them.

[Lightning McQueen]

If you are referring to Adelaide Uni I think you'll find that they play for which campus they attend. It makes some sense, the Roseworthy blokes stick together etc.
If collectively they can fill 46 sides good on them, what's stopping Elizabeth, Smithfield, Eastern Park and Angle Vale merging, entering a bucketload of teams over all the divisions and jagging a few premierships along the way.

[morell]

So in all the Divs only Modbury (C and D Grade) in Div 7 have a lower grade team way out performing the higher team. (I am not saying Modbury are doing anything wrong).

Exactly right, great post, Modbury in Div 7 is where a lot of this started from. Check the Div 7 thread.

What the D grade players are doing to their C grade club peers is very poor form IMO.

[Jabber]

So in all the Divs only Modbury (C and D Grade) in Div 7 have a lower grade team way out performing the higher team. (I am not saying Modbury are doing anything wrong).

Exactly right, great post, Modbury in Div 7 is where a lot of this started from. Check the Div 7 thread.

What the D grade players are doing to their C grade club peers is very poor form IMO.

But thats up to Modbury to sort out isn't it? No really anything to do with anyone else. If its causing angst within Modbury circles then I'm sure they wil deal with it as they see fit.

If anything it should make thier C grade (which is other's in Div 7's A Grade) more beatable shouldn't it? Or would you rather they have it the other way around and they smack the pants off you in Div 7 instead of Div 7 res??

[test]

So in all the Divs only Modbury (C and D Grade) in Div 7 have a lower grade team way out performing the higher team. (I am not saying Modbury are doing anything wrong).

Exactly right, great post, Modbury in Div 7 is where a lot of this started from. Check the Div 7 thread.

What the D grade players are doing to their C grade club peers is very poor form IMO.

But thats up to Modbury to sort out isn't it? No really anything to do with anyone else. If its causing angst within Modbury circles then I'm sure they wil deal with it as they see fit.

If anything it should make thier C grade (which is other's in Div 7's A Grade) more beatable shouldn't it? Or would you rather they have it the other way around and they smack the pants off you in Div 7 instead of Div 7 res??

And one club supposedly doing it is hardly an epidemic worthy of bringing the whole league to it's knees

[D14]

So in all the Divs only Modbury (C and D Grade) in Div 7 have a lower grade team way out performing the higher team. (I am not saying Modbury are doing anything wrong).

Exactly right, great post, Modbury in Div 7 is where a lot of this started from. Check the Div 7 thread.

What the D grade players are doing to their C grade club peers is very poor form IMO.

But thats up to Modbury to sort out isn't it? No really anything to do with anyone else. If its causing angst within Modbury circles then I'm sure they wil deal with it as they see fit.

If anything it should make thier C grade (which is other's in Div 7's A Grade) more beatable shouldn't it? Or would you rather they have it the other way around and they smack the pants off you in Div 7 instead of Div 7 res??

And one club supposedly doing it is hardly an epidemic worthy of bringing the whole league to it's knees

Exactly Test, That is what I was trying to point out. I wasn't having a go at Modbury because I haven't seen them play for a few years now and would have no idea what is happening out there, just stating that it isn't a major problem that is destroying the league.

[morell]

So in all the Divs only Modbury (C and D Grade) in Div 7 have a lower grade team way out performing the higher team. (I am not saying Modbury are doing anything wrong).

Exactly right, great post, Modbury in Div 7 is where a lot of this started from. Check the Div 7 thread.

What the D grade players are doing to their C grade club peers is very poor form IMO.

But thats up to Modbury to sort out isn't it? No really anything to do with anyone else. If its causing angst within Modbury circles then I'm sure they wil deal with it as they see fit.

If anything it should make thier C grade (which is other's in Div 7's A Grade) more beatable shouldn't it? Or would you rather they have it the other way around and they smack the pants off you in Div 7 instead of Div 7 res??

Yes, it is up to Modbury to sort out, but it also has to do with the integrity of the rest of the competition (in our case Div 7). Some of the posters have been a bit insular with their comments in this thread - surely the betterment of the sport as a whole and the continual improvement of the competition is something all clubs in all grades should aspire to? Rather than just rocking up on Saturday to run around with mates and drink piss, maybe we should all have a look around at the health of the sport?

This selfish “I only care about my club” attitude is not going to get anyone anywhere or help anyone!

In a practical sense - the unevenness of the Modbury grades makes it difficult for the teams that are taking that division seriously to get an even and consistent season of football. Yes, each division has sides that get smashed but as pointed out previously that is usually due to a lack of numbers across the whole club, not because a group of players are holding a club ransom and demanding where they play on the weekend. It’s an avoidable situation in other words.

[morell]

So in all the Divs only Modbury (C and D Grade) in Div 7 have a lower grade team way out performing the higher team. (I am not saying Modbury are doing anything wrong).

Exactly right, great post, Modbury in Div 7 is where a lot of this started from. Check the Div 7 thread.

What the D grade players are doing to their C grade club peers is very poor form IMO.

But thats up to Modbury to sort out isn't it? No really anything to do with anyone else. If its causing angst within Modbury circles then I'm sure they wil deal with it as they see fit.

If anything it should make thier C grade (which is other's in Div 7's A Grade) more beatable shouldn't it? Or would you rather they have it the other way around and they smack the pants off you in Div 7 instead of Div 7 res??

And one club supposedly doing it is hardly an epidemic worthy of bringing the whole league to it's knees

Sure, doesn't mean those D Grade Modbury footballers don't deserve to get called out though.

[double-blue]

So in all the Divs only Modbury (C and D Grade) in Div 7 have a lower grade team way out performing the higher team. (I am not saying Modbury are doing anything wrong).

Exactly right, great post, Modbury in Div 7 is where a lot of this started from. Check the Div 7 thread.

What the D grade players are doing to their C grade club peers is very poor form IMO.

But thats up to Modbury to sort out isn't it? No really anything to do with anyone else. If its causing angst within Modbury circles then I'm sure they wil deal with it as they see fit.

If anything it should make thier C grade (which is other's in Div 7's A Grade) more beatable shouldn't it? Or would you rather they have it the other way around and they smack the pants off you in Div 7 instead of Div 7 res??

Yes, it is up to Modbury to sort out, but it also has to do with the integrity of the rest of the competition (in our case Div 7). Some of the posters have been a bit insular with their comments in this thread - surely the betterment of the sport as a whole and the continual improvement of the competition is something all clubs in all grades should aspire to? Rather than just rocking up on Saturday to run around with mates and drink piss, maybe we should all have a look around at the health of the sport?

This selfish “I only care about my club” attitude is not going to get anyone anywhere or help anyone!

In a practical sense - the unevenness of the Modbury grades makes it difficult for the teams that are taking that division seriously to get an even and consistent season of football. Yes, each division has sides that get smashed but as pointed out previously that is usually due to a lack of numbers across the whole club, not because a group of players are holding a club ransom and demanding where they play on the weekend. It’s an avoidable situation in other words.

Exactly the point in this grade. It undermines the competition and the A grade teams within it by doing what they are doing.

Now as for the C grade comp, it's harder to manage as in itself it is a less serious competition. My concern within this comp is within its nature it is quite an un-even comp. Surely the SAAFL needs to do something about this to stop teams getting pumped every week. Which results in the bi-product of increased violence and lower numbers I would safely assume.

Now in the past I have been in this C grade comp and been on the positive end of some thrashings, and it's not fun seeing a team get absolutely smashed nor would it be fun to play in such games. You only need to look as far as the playing number fluctuations between the SFL clubs to see what losing by a million points each week does to a compeititon

[Jabber]

Well work hard and get out of Div 7 then!