Who is Australia's Biggest ODI Waste of Space?

[magpie in the 80's]

At the age of 45 I was still the fastest bowler in my team
Only took me 64 seconds to bowl an over.

WHAT NO RUN UP MAL
BUT IF THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE JOKE IT RATES 7.2

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Agree to disagree.

heres my order of batting ability of keepers id have haddin 4th

Not having seen enough of the west indian keeper ramdin il put him above nixon and below akmal and mcullum

gily http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/austral ... /5390.html
sangakkara http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/ci/cont ... 50710.html
dhoni (havnt seen but great start) http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/india/c ... 28081.html
boucher http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/southaf ... 44111.html
akmal http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/pakista ... 41028.html
mcullum http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/newzeal ... 37737.html
ramdin http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/wc2007/ ... 52917.html
nixon http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/england ... 18023.html

You have a guy a 3 who you haven't seen? You can't form a proper view of a player from stats alone.

FRom what you hear the experts say he is the real deal. His one day average is very good. None of the guys below him are really top 6 batsman in their own right. Dhoni is. Haddin could be.

So you are giving us your opinion of where guys rank based on what other people say?

Well Im listing in order of batting ability. Everyone knows Sangakkara and Gilchrist are the only guys who could make the team as batsman alone. Dhoni Is picked in the top 6 for India with pathan at 7 sometimes. This suggests to me he is good enough to make the side as a batsman alone. His one day stats are very impressive and the next best boucher isnt close to being a top 6 batsman in his own right without keeping.

[am Bays]

From what I saw of Dhoni in the tests against South Africa, he is ok with the gloves but a long way behind, Gilchrist, Boucher, McCullum, Read, Sangakkara and dare I say it Haddin

He didn't have much to beat though in Pathan who had a shocking 18 months from September 2004 until he was dropped for Dhoni.

Dhoni isn't bad and is in the top half of 'Keeper batsmen in teh world but arguably on a par with McCullum (Dhoni better batsman but worse keeper than the Kiwi) but behind Gilchrist, Sanggakara, Boucher, and Read.

Anyone notice that against India Boucher broke Healy's record for the most test catches by a 'keeper (Healy is still in front of him though as he has more stumpings)

[rod_rooster]

But the point is you are still going on what other people say and stats not what you actually believe having made an informed judgment yourself based on what you've seen. Doesn't really give much credibility to "your" list of keepers batting abilities. It is also difficult to compare Haddin's ability against those guys who have or are playing International cricket. The step up in pressure and scrutiny is enormous and what a guy does in front of 150 people in a domestic game does not equate to what a guy does in front of 30 000 plus worldwide viewing audiences, in an International game. The same way Watson can look very good and play very well in Domestic cricket yet he's never been able to do anything of substance when the spotlight of the International cricket audiences are on him.

[rod_rooster]

From what I saw of Dhoni in the tests against South Africa, he is ok with the gloves but a long way behind, Gilchrist, Boucher, McCullum, Read, Sangakkara and dare I say it Haddin

He didn't have much to beat though in Pathan who had a shocking 18 months from September 2004 until he was dropped for Dhoni.

Dhoni isn't bad and is in the top half of 'Keeper batsmen in teh world but arguably on a par with McCullum (Dhoni better batsman but worse keeper than the Kiwi) but behind Gilchrist, Sanggakara, Boucher, and Read.

Anyone notice that against India Boucher broke Healy's record for the most test catches by a 'keeper (Healy is still in front of him though as he has more stumpings)

How do you rate Boucher's glovework tassie? I don't think he is the best by a long shot but he is above Gilchrist, McCullum IMO. Pretty close between Boucher and Sangakarra i reckon. Think you have it right with Read although i'd like to see more of him on turning tracks keeping to Panesar.

[am Bays]

Boucher is a tidy gloveman, not spectacular like Healy and Russell (the best I've seen with the gloves on) but you don't see him make many mistakes - which is arguably the key measure when assessing a keeper, you don't notice the good ones becasue they don't make mistakes - I stand out like dogs balls but thats another story....

His glovework isn't as good as Reads, and but yeah he is probably beter than Sanggakara and Gilchrist.

What I will say in Gilchrists defence is that like Healy he is always the first guy on the track working on his 'keeping and the last guy off (he certainly was in Darwin for teh two test up there). Deep down I think he knows he isn't a great keeper but he works incrediably hard at it - especially working on his soft hands / give with teh ball. Along with opposition's working him out better (around the wicket short of a length swinging in for the catch at 4th slip/gully / backward point) I think his batting has fallen away because he doesn't work as hard on it compared to his 'keeping

[rod_rooster]

Interesting you say those things about Gilchrist. Just confirms what i have heard from other sources regarding the work he puts in.

Healy and Russell i rate as the best 2 i've seen as well. Real shame Russell didn't play more Test cricket than he did.

[Rik E Boy]

Haddin is a far better player than Boucher in my opinion

Not until Haddin has performed consistently at International level could he even be considered near Boucher.

Agreed.

regards,

REB

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But the point is you are still going on what other people say and stats not what you actually believe having made an informed judgment yourself based on what you've seen. Doesn't really give much credibility to "your" list of keepers batting abilities. It is also difficult to compare Haddin's ability against those guys who have or are playing International cricket. The step up in pressure and scrutiny is enormous and what a guy does in front of 150 people in a domestic game does not equate to what a guy does in front of 30 000 plus worldwide viewing audiences, in an International game. The same way Watson can look very good and play very well in Domestic cricket yet he's never been able to do anything of substance when the spotlight of the International cricket audiences are on him.

Ok then exclude dhoni from the list otherwise it is spot on.

You cant dispute Boucher and the others couldnt make the side as a batsman alone. Just quietly Without keeping Gily wuld nealy be dropped wouldnt he?

Il except hddin hasnt done it under presure consistently due to lack of opportunity. On the other side of the coin I havnt seen any choking from him.

Watsons innings in the second final was impressive. I dont even think he is suited to that role.

Ok ive excluded Dhoni from the list. 66 ODIS AVE 46 SR 98- TO ME THATA BATSMAN. THOSE STATS OVER THAT SAMPLE SPACE DONT LIE. ITS A TREMENDOUS RECORD. I THINK IT IS FAIR TO "ASSUME" HE IS AT LEAST 3RD ON THAT LIST.


On another matter he averages 30 in tests with 1 ton. I can name players who have done worse than that from 15 tests and forged a career. Lets not forget he is a keeper.

[rod_rooster]

But the point is you are still going on what other people say and stats not what you actually believe having made an informed judgment yourself based on what you've seen. Doesn't really give much credibility to "your" list of keepers batting abilities. It is also difficult to compare Haddin's ability against those guys who have or are playing International cricket. The step up in pressure and scrutiny is enormous and what a guy does in front of 150 people in a domestic game does not equate to what a guy does in front of 30 000 plus worldwide viewing audiences, in an International game. The same way Watson can look very good and play very well in Domestic cricket yet he's never been able to do anything of substance when the spotlight of the International cricket audiences are on him.

Ok then exclude dhoni from the list otherwise it is spot on.

You cant dispute Boucher and the others couldnt make the side as a batsman alone. Just quietly Without keeping Gily wuld nealy be dropped wouldnt he?

Il except hddin hasnt done it under presure consistently due to lack of opportunity. On the other side of the coin I havnt seen any choking from him.

Watsons innings in the second final was impressive. I dont even think he is suited to that role.

Ok ive excluded Dhoni from the list. 66 ODIS AVE 46 SR 98- TO ME THATA BATSMAN. THOSE STATS OVER THAT SAMPLE SPACE DONT LIE. ITS A TREMENDOUS RECORD. I THINK IT IS FAIR TO "ASSUME" HE IS AT LEAST 3RD ON THAT LIST.


On another matter he averages 30 in tests with 1 ton. I can name players who have done worse than that from 15 tests and forged a career. Lets not forget he is a keeper.

Fair enough. I've seen Dhoni and in one dayers he could play as a batsman alone but i think he'd struggle to get a game based purely on his batting in a Test side. Time will tell though.

Boucher is pretty close. Has been selected to bat in the top 6 in Test cricket before. Probably suggests more about the depth of players available to South Africa at that time than Boucher but none the less he did play there.

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Boucher got 6 cos of pollock under him. Boje can also bat. Also klusner

[rod_rooster]

Boucher got 6 cos of pollock under him. Boje can also bat. Also klusner

When was the last time Klusener played Even Boje hasn't played for some time has he? Either way he still batted in the top 6 in Test cricket. Same can be said of Watson today. He's still made a half century (at least) regardless of how weak the attack or how flat the pitch or how little the game counts for. He's still made them.

[Blue Boy]

Looks like a vote needs to be added for the selectors as they have chosen Jaques !!!

[Adelaide Hawk]

When was the last time Klusener played

2004.

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i meant that those were some of the players that allowed boucher to bat 6. throw kemp in 2