SANFL Stuffing up our league

[topsywaldron]

That just fits your prejudices, topsy.

Where is the evidence that was an AFL decision?

Genuine question - is Norwood unhappy with it?

Case still open.

What you call prejudices I call opinions, much like yours.

Also don't confuse whether Norwood are happy or unhappy with a decision with what their supporters think.

If you're happy with what will always remain, despite the grandstanding of a few arrivistes, an iconic SANFL match being played as a mere sidelight then I want no part of the competition you're obviously hankering for.

[Apachebulldog]

Spot on Topsy, who wants to go see a curtain raiser for the Power puffs from what i have been hearing and reading on the Adelaide Now site, most SANFL fans are not interested especially Norwood supporters who will not be attending the game, this is just another attempt to increase crowd numbers for the Power which i think has been orchestrated by the AFL and the SANFL puppets, just like the Port merger one week all clubs were against it, 3 weeks later all clubs were for it after Demetriou hit town the SANFL are officially AFL PUPPETS/MUPPETS !!!!

[redandblack]

I agree with you about opinions, topsy. That's your opinion and I respect that. My opinion differs.

You then presume that I'm happy with the game being a curtain-raiser. Nowhere have I said that.

You say that's the sort of competition I want. Nowhere have I said that.

All I've said is show evidence, not just opinion, that it's all an AFL plot.

However, I always respect your views, so we'll just agree to disagree.

[topsywaldron]

All I've said is show evidence, not just opinion, that it's all an AFL plot

I don't think it's 'an AFL plot', I'll leave that kind of grandstanding for others. What I do think is that the SANFL need to be very careful in the next five years not to alienate it's core consituency with too many decisions that have the potential to demean their competition.

[redandblack]

Well, I have no problem agreeing with that.

[Royal City]

That's fair comment, CP, but I'd add the following:

In life, business and sport, you can only do what's possible in the circumstances you're faced with. The reality is that the AFL is a multi-million dollar empire and the SANFL, an affiliated, but independent body, has to work with that reality. I have no love of the AFL. I thin it's a Victorian-centric organisation that isn't out to do us any favours. However, the SANFL has to walk a tightrope between maintaining the independence and strength of the league and remaining onside with the AFL.

IMO, to think the SANFL can just tell the AFL to go jump is not realistic. They fund us for a million dollars a year and control so much that they could really hurt us if they wanted to. The SANFL have a balancing act to achieve and I think, albeit with errors along the way, that they do their best for the League.

In your case, CP, Norwood's representative Commissioner is Phil Gallagher. Do you think Phil is just a puppet of the AFL? No, of course you don't.

I suppose I would take more notice if just a shred of actual evidence was put forward to sustain the case that the SANFL were just puppets of the AFL or were stuffing up the league. All I read, though, is gossip, hearsay or opinion. If that is forthcoming, I'm happy to believe and respect it.

In the meantime, I look forward to some actual evidence.

No offence meant R&B and Im not quoting you specifically but reading between the lines. The SANFL is happy to keep selling out the leagues integrity,pride and future. Because the AFL makes the SANFL money.

Basically the same justification prostitiutes have had for their occupation for thousands of years.

I have been saying it for a long time the writing is on the wall. Its was time for the SANFL to stand up for itself a while ago. We are an extremely valuable asset to the AFL and need to release such. I think Like the originator of the post our/well my problem is not with the AFL anymore. But with the SANFL to get ourselves in this awful position where we are so helpless.

The fact is the SANFL's only hope now is that this inevitable golden rainbow of revenue that is the AFL. Will finally deliver to the 2 SA based AFL clubs, The SANFL, The SANFL clubs, Junior football in SA so much money, the likes of which we have never seen before.

Sorry to repeat myself . It aint going to happen.

[redandblack]

That's fine, but still no actual evidence.

Crowds are up, clubs are generally healthier.

[Hondo]

The fact is the SANFL's only hope now is that this inevitable golden rainbow of revenue that is the AFL. Will finally deliver to the 2 SA based AFL clubs, The SANFL, The SANFL clubs, Junior football in SA so much money, the likes of which we have never seen before.

Sorry to repeat myself . It aint going to happen.

Do you think the SANFL and the 9 clubs are financially healthier as a group than they were 20 years ago? I think they might be. That's not all thanks to the AFL either. A financial comparison would be interesting. There's prostituting yourself out as someone put it and then there's making the best financially out of a drastically changed national football landscape. From SA footy's POV it's a pity it wasn't the SANFL who formed the inevitable national competition but that can't be changed now. We can keep getting upset about it or make the best of it as we can.

Do you know how much money flows to the SANFL and junior football from the AFL or AFL related sources? I don't. But before we start making too big a claim we should know this figure.

I feel the SANFL comp is as strong as it has been since the Power came into the AFL and generally the financial statements coming out of the SANFL clubs seem to be positive and improving.

While I respect your opinion I feel that things are not as bad as you think they are.

[Royal City]

That's fine, but still no actual evidence.

Crowds are up, clubs are generally healthier.

Do you know how to read financial reports R&B ?????
If so Check out PAFC's financials. $3.5 mill debt after $6-7 mill in grants over the last 2 years
Or the fact an AFL club has had to merge with an SANFL to try and "cut expenses".
Or the sponsors banners all over AAMI stadium trying to hide the fact the stadium is empty.
Or the fact the SANFL clubs had their finals prize/appearance money severely cut this year.
The fact we cut future commissions to SANFL clubs for future players drafted this year.
The fact the SANFL was going to scrap the premiership dinner this year which was only re-instated after an EXTREME protest from the CDFC.


And why are all these cuts happening to the SANFL. Lack of revenue from the 2 AFL clubs .
Nothing worrying you yet ????


"Crowds are up and clubs are generally healthier" is that your rebuttal.

Crowds are up no doubt. But we the SANFL are going to be what 10000 patrons behind the eight ball this year due to the re-invention of "AFL curtain raisers". A positive for the league ????

Clubs are generally healthier. Could I now ask for some Proof R&B. ???? How many seasons ago was it 8 of the 9 SANFL clubs made losses. ??

How much debt are SANFL clubs in collectively BTW?????

More than welcome to call me paranoid.

I understand your loyalty to your employer. But personally I think it has clouded your vision as to the detrimental effect these afl clubs have had to our league.

[Royal City]

The fact is the SANFL's only hope now is that this inevitable golden rainbow of revenue that is the AFL. Will finally deliver to the 2 SA based AFL clubs, The SANFL, The SANFL clubs, Junior football in SA so much money, the likes of which we have never seen before.

Sorry to repeat myself . It aint going to happen.

Do you think the SANFL and the 9 clubs are financially healthier as a group than they were 20 years ago? I think they might be. That's not all thanks to the AFL either. A financial comparison would be interesting. There's prostituting yourself out as someone put it and then there's making the best financially out of a drastically changed national football landscape. From SA footy's POV it's a pity it wasn't the SANFL who formed the inevitable national competition but that can't be changed now. We can keep getting upset about it or make the best of it as we can.

Do you know how much money flows to the SANFL and junior football from the AFL or AFL related sources? I don't. But before we start making too big a claim we should know this figure.

I feel the SANFL comp is as strong as it has been since the Power came into the AFL and generally the financial statements coming out of the SANFL clubs seem to be positive and improving.

While I respect your opinion I feel that things are not as bad as you think they are.

Im sure, I like everyone else on this website is very suprised by your conclusion Hondo.
I would never of predicted that your "guess" is that everything is so much better now for the SANFL. Wonders never cease.

"Everything is fine. Stop being paranoid"

[redandblack]

Well, I think you've proven my point, RC.

I'm talking about the SANFL clubs, not the AFL.

You say it wasn't long ago that 8 of the 9 clubs were making losses. Precisely. That is no longer the case at all. It's also not as if clubs didn't have financial problems even in the 'golden days' of the SANFL.

Yes, I do know how to read financial reports. My club's report says it lost $600K two years ago and is now profitable. My take on it shows that all ratios are improving - Current Ratio, Liquid Ratio, etc.

I have no argument at all with you about the 2 SA AFL clubs struggling financially, but that's not what we're disagreeing about.

What do you think the SANFL should be doing to 'fix things up', apart from not having one curtain-raiser to an AFL game?

Which Commissioners do you think don't have our league's best interests at heart?

What evidence do you have that they are AFL lackeys?

What should they be doing to increase crowds and improve their financial situation?

If the answer is to tell the AFL to go jump, how do you propose to replace the million dollars a year we get from the AFL for Junior Development?

I think you should have a think about who is really being paranoid,RC

I'll look forward to a considered reply.

[Hondo]

I was talking about the SANFL Clubs as well.

In terms of the 2 AFL licenses these are possibly the most challenging times for the SANFL since 1991. It's major asset and the asset which allowed the SANFL to stand strong against the VFL/AFL in the past is now seemingly on the nose and no-one wants to go there anymore.

However I thought this thread was about the SANFL competition ("our league") which I maintain is a very strong competition involving 9 clubs who are becoming very solid financially. A few curtain raisers won't change that.

[Hondo]

Im sure, I like everyone else on this website is very suprised by your conclusion Hondo.
I would never of predicted that your "guess" is that everything is so much better now for the SANFL. Wonders never cease.

"Everything is fine. Stop being paranoid"

I think you might have too busy with pasting that picture to answer any of my questions? Not that I expect you will have all the figures handy! I don't. I think we need to get some real numbers on the table before we come to conclusions either way. Me included.

Have you asked your club about all this? They have a SANFL commissioner who is involved with all these issues who might be prepared to take you through the figures?

[Royal City]

Im sure, I like everyone else on this website is very suprised by your conclusion Hondo.
I would never of predicted that your "guess" is that everything is so much better now for the SANFL. Wonders never cease.

"Everything is fine. Stop being paranoid"

I think you might have too busy with pasting that picture to answer any of my questions? Not that I expect you will have all the figures handy! I don't. I think we need to get some real numbers on the table before we come to conclusions either way. Me included.

Have you asked your club about all this? They have a SANFL commissioner who is involved with all these issues who might be prepared to take you through the figures?

Yes I have spoken to my club about this as a financial sponsor Hondo.

Let me guess have you ?????

I find it interesting you dont know the exact figures but you can constantly assure everyone its all fine and to strop being paranoid.

If you think the SANFL clubs are better off now competing with the AFl clubs for fans ,members , sponsors , tv ratings etc............ then thats your opinion. All I can say Is I 100% disagree.

BTW the SANFL clubs survived without pokie revenue 20 years ago. Do you honestly think we could do that now ?????

2 things we all agree about.

The AFL brings in alot of revenue to the SANFL.
that revenue has been getting less and less over the last 4 years.

Were we disgree.

Somehow you think the clubs are stronger now than they have ever been. I dont.

As pointed out in the last 12 months. The SANFL has already had to cut total prize money for winning the SANFL and revenue made out of our juniors getting drafted.
Which will ofcourse effects all sanfl clubs revenue streams.

The CDFC made less money this year than they have in a decade. And it wasnt due to asset write offs. As Kris Grant stated in the CDFC annual report when addressing the concerning rate of cost cutting to the league by the SANFL "When will this all stop".

[Royal City]

Well, I think you've proven my point, RC.

I'm talking about the SANFL clubs, not the AFL.

You say it wasn't long ago that 8 of the 9 clubs were making losses. Precisely. That is no longer the case at all. It's also not as if clubs didn't have financial problems even in the 'golden days' of the SANFL.

Yes, I do know how to read financial reports. My club's report says it lost $600K two years ago and is now profitable. My take on it shows that all ratios are improving - Current Ratio, Liquid Ratio, etc.

I have no argument at all with you about the 2 SA AFL clubs struggling financially, but that's not what we're disagreeing about.

What do you think the SANFL should be doing to 'fix things up', apart from not having one curtain-raiser to an AFL game?

Which Commissioners do you think don't have our league's best interests at heart?

What evidence do you have that they are AFL lackeys?

What should they be doing to increase crowds and improve their financial situation?

If the answer is to tell the AFL to go jump, how do you propose to replace the million dollars a year we get from the AFL for Junior Development?

I think you should have a think about who is really being paranoid,RC

I'll look forward to a considered reply.

Have you Read PAFCs/AFCs/SANFLs financials R&B. As Im not sure just reading West Adelaides financials will give you the complete picture. Although Im happy to hear West have turned things around.

LEt me guess you have no proof of the statement "the clubs are generally healthy" ???

Considering what we have just gone thru with the PAMFC, I cant believe you can even consider the claim.

Yet again Ill repeat for you. The league cut the SANFLs total finals prize money from the SANFL clubs. And the commission made out of our juniors getting drafted to the AFL. And wasnt even going to celebrate the SANFL premiership with a simple dinner with thre players and its own officials /dignitories. Due to lack of funds .

So you think the SANFL wants to cut on the SANFL clubs revenue for fun. Or cos it has to ???

And if you honestly believe that all we need now after 13 years of AFL in SA. Is for the SANFL to lease a stadium in the city , Plus merge an afl club with its existing sanfl club. Finally after these two changes we will now finally be lead to this promised inevitable golden rainbow of revenue that is the AFL.

You may lable me paranoid. But anyone who believes the above scenario is absolutely deluded IMHO.

[redandblack]

RC, I'm off for NYE, so I'll answer your points later.

Firstly though, I'm self-employed, so I don't know what your term 'your employer' is about.

Secondly, it's a bit disingenuous to complain about being asked if you're paranoid when you've used the accusation first

Finally, all your points relate to the financial situation caused by less AFL profitability and you have still made no comment at all in answering the reasonable questions I've asked.The CDFC is a healthy club financially, as are the vast majority of the clubs. I said generally, because of course the Magpies were in strife. I don't blame the SANFL for that, as you do. I blame the Magpies administration.

[Royal City]

RC, I'm off for NYE, so I'll answer your points later.

Firstly though, I'm self-employed, so I don't know what your term 'your employer' is about.

Secondly, it's a bit disingenuous to complain about being asked if you're paranoid when you've used the accusation first

Finally, all your points relate to the financial situation caused by less AFL profitability and you have still made no comment at all in answering the reasonable questions I've asked.The CDFC is a healthy club financially, as are the vast majority of the clubs. I said generally, because of course the Magpies were in strife. I don't blame the SANFL for that, as you do. I blame the Magpies administration.

I dont blame the SANFL for the Magpies infact I have defended the SANFl for 12 months against the accusation. They 100% got themselves into that predicament thru terrible management.

BTW AFL footballers are also self employed. Doesnt mean they dont have a club as their employer. Or are you going to deny you work/volunteer for a club.

"you have still made no comment at all in answering the reasonable questions I've asked"

ditto R&B So I wait with baited breathe for your response after you have read more than West Adelaides financials. As Im sure they dont represent the entire SANFLs financial situation presently.

BTW I have not accused anyone of being an AFL lacky. As I have stated a few times my problem is with the SANFL/SANFL commission and the CEO of the CDFC.

Finally. Have a good new year!!!!

[Hondo]

Finally. Have a good new year!!!!

Same to you mate!

BTW, I have never called you paranoid even though you keep saying I have. I haven't called anyone paranoid. We are arguing different points and probably would agree on a lot if we spoke face to face. You keep telling me what I am saying but it's different from what I am actually saying! I said the SANFL clubs are stronger financially now than they were say 5 years ago and possibly than they were 20 years ago. North's financials look very positive and I don't reckon we were that solid 20 years ago. South posted some huge profit didn't they? Other clubs are getting licensed venues they didn't all used to have. Obviously the money is coming from AFL and pokies but it's still coming. I am not getting into the rights and wrongs and whether it's a sell out.

The SANFL still owns AAMI Stadium but now it also owns 2 AFL licences that, if managed better than they have been, should be lucrative. I support the AO move and OnePort is already showing positive signs. There's a $1b new TV rights deal coming up that all AFL clubs will share in. Yes, PAP is a big problem currently but I think that can be overcome.

So, all I am just saying it's not all as bad as you are making out. A bit of belt tightening with the dinners and the prize money does not mean the end of the world just yet.

What would you do if you were the SANFL?

[csbowes]

I can't really point to one bit of evidence here or there, but my general perception is that the AFL wants to turn the state leagues into a series of feeder leagues for the AFL. Rather than have indirect or informal relationships with the AFL, I think the AFL wants formal, regulated relationships between the lower leagues and the AFL in order to ensure that the best of the best graduate to the AFL clubs and in some cases, certain AFL clubs, regardless of it's overall effect on those lower leagues.

That's my perception.

If that perception is wrong, the AFL and the SANFL need to make a decision as to whether they try and fix that perception, as one thing I've learnt in my career is that perception means a hell of a lot and no matter how good one's intentions are, if other people have a different perception of what you're doing, you still lose out.

Finally, there's been a bunch of comments on here about whether SANFL teams are better off financially now than they were before. I won't speak for the other 8 clubs, but I believe Sturt have gone from making manageable losses and being 99% geared to making manageable losses and being 99% geared.

So no change in fortunes at Unley... that's my perception (again).

[csbowes]

* Leaving the biggest money maker Football Park, which it owns, for Adelaide Oval
* The AFL's champions league. How many of these comps have failed in the past.... remember the NFL and AFC.
* One Port Adelaide. The 1994 decision stated that two clubs would remain seperate. what has changed between now and when the SANFL said no at the start of the year. Are they blind to the downside to the Power...by merging with the traditional Port club they alienate all other supporters.
* Bringing back AFL curtain raisers - who benefits from this.
* Loss of Under 19 & 17s - verdict may still be out but I dont see any national titles for SA yet.
* Fixturing of night games..... why not reward the clubs that have the facilities as crowds obviously love it

1. I think SANFL matches at FP are rubbish. One huge empty stadium. My preference would be to see the Power move to Adelaide Oval and make it their own, leave the Crows at FP and have the SANFL finals, including the grannie, at AO. For whatever reason I have confidence this arrangement would be beneficial to everyone.

2. I like the idea, but it does seem to have been stuffed up and handled badly by the SANFL. You can't support it and then find out almost your whole league pulls out of it, how stupid does that look.

3. One PA... I think its short term gain for the AFL side at the expense of the SANFL side. I agree with PAFC and PAMFC being one club culturally, I don't think they should be trying to woo non-Magpies-type people (little kids will follow the Power if the Power win games, simple as that), but I doubt the AFL entity gives a toss about the SANFL side.

4. Curtain raisers, is there any better example of just getting on one's knees and blowing the AFL.

5. Oh wait there is... getting rid of the U19 and U17, geez what a great example of solidarity by those clubs who voted to get rid of the two leagues they barely supported, there's something called integrity and the league as a whole didn't show it.

6. I'm happy with night games, no real issue there... but the point about kids having difficulty getting to it is interesting if true.