National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

[sjt]

For years on this forum, posters have floated the idea of a national comp for the SANFL, WAFL, etc.

For years on this forum, posters have bemoaned the lack of TV coverage and publicity for the SANFL.

Now the AFL float the idea of a national comp, covered on (pay) TV.

Absolute disgrace! Sellout! Puppets! Not enough prizemoney!

If I was a sponsor, my name will still be on the guernsey to a national audience as an extra I wouldn't have otherwise had.

I'm sure the SANFL lobbied for further concessions, but the knockers just presume they didn't, without knowing the facts.

We all know the AFL is a football monopoly and none of us trust it when it comes to the SANFL, but the reality is that it is a very, very, powerful body and no-one on here has ever satisfactorily explained just how the SANFL is supposed to dictate to the AFL on these matters (and keep the million dollars a year the AFl give them).

As for the SANFL Commission, most posters probably wouldn't know who was on it without looking it up. Almost all the Commissioners are dyed-in-the-wool SANFL people.

As for it affecting premiership chances, that remains to be seen, but it's nonsense to suggest any of the clubs participating aren't going flat out to go top.

My guess is that West, Port and probably North will participate.

Get over it and move on to the next whinge.

I think what irks many posters R&B, is the SANFL commission have signed their clubs up for something without knowing the terms and conditions. I can't think of too many examples of a board or business doing this.
The supposed fact, that clubs would actually be out of pocket in order to compete and promote football, is another thorn in the side. Whilst the wealthy AFL spruiks what a great job they are doing. Here is a perfect opportunity for the AFL to showcase the game and support the game, and "grass roots" football as they term it, nationally.

If I was a sponsor, my name will still be on the guernsey to a national audience as an extra I wouldn't have otherwise had.
Of course it should be, but will it? These teams Westies, Port whoever should be able to reward their sponsors and be true to their club by wearing their current guernseys.
Surely with this years top 5 clubs deeming it not viable to play, there may be something wrong. Why such a hap-hazard rush job.
As for national exposure, which is supposedly the major benefit of this comp, do you really care if some Queenslanders, Victorians etc know who Westies, Centrals or anybody else is? How does this translate to a benefit to the club? It could actually be detrimental if they performed poorly.
Part of CDFC's club ethos is "club success is measured by premierships", they can't do anything to hinder this, especially if the risk reward benefit just isn't there.
I think most posters like the concept, just do it properly though.
Anyway, I hope Westies beat every team by 20 goals.

[nickname]

Agree completely R&B.

[Sojourner]

Agree completely R&B.

x 2

[redandblack]

sjt, you have no evidence at all to claim the SANFL don't know the terms and conditions.

You are also incorrect to say that the SANFL 'signed their clubs up'. Have they signed up Centrals? Or Glenelg? Or WWT? Or Norwood? Or Sturt? Or only those clubs who want to participate?

I can also assure you that the vast majority of players are very keen to play in it.

As for the guernsey, the club sponsor's name will be on it. Regarding national exposure, yes, I would be very happy for interstaters to see West Adelaide play.

The difficulty with your argument is that perhaps it's hard to fit a pre-conceived opinion with the facts.

[tipper]

sjt, you have no evidence at all to claim the SANFL don't know the terms and conditions.

You are also incorrect to say that the SANFL 'signed their clubs up'. Have they signed up Centrals? Or Glenelg? Or WWT? Or Norwood? Or Sturt? Or only those clubs who want to participate?

I can also assure you that the vast majority of players are very keen to play in it.

As for the guernsey, the club sponsor's name will be on it. Regarding national exposure, yes, I would be very happy for interstaters to see West Adelaide play.

The difficulty with your argument is that perhaps it's hard to fit a pre-conceived opinion with the facts.

If the terms and conditions are known, why havent they been publicised?

and the club sponsors name will be on the guernsey, subject to approval from the afl. to me that means that there is a posibility that clubs may not be allowed to have their first choice sponsor displayed on their strip. i believe it is a valid concern. weighting of that concern is something for the individual clubs to determine. some may see it as a major issue, others a minor one. to each their own

[JK]

sjt, you have no evidence at all to claim the SANFL don't know the terms and conditions.

You are also incorrect to say that the SANFL 'signed their clubs up'. Have they signed up Centrals? Or Glenelg? Or WWT? Or Norwood? Or Sturt? Or only those clubs who want to participate?

I can also assure you that the vast majority of players are very keen to play in it.

As for the guernsey, the club sponsor's name will be on it. Regarding national exposure, yes, I would be very happy for interstaters to see West Adelaide play.

The difficulty with your argument is that perhaps it's hard to fit a pre-conceived opinion with the facts.

Surely it's fact though that a majority of SANFL clubs rejected the proposal that was put to them?

Don't get me wrong, I don't have any issue at all with it going ahead, and I agree with your previous point about possible ramifications with AFL funding if the SANFL doesn't comply (rock and hard place) .. But, at the end of the day the SANFL's decision directly opposed the majority of their constituents did it not?

[Hazydog]

I fully understand the reasons for those clubs not accepting the offer and taking a cautious approach.

I wonder though if they really would still be interested if all the boxes could be ticked? Also, whether the supporters would be in favour of their club competing if the club was happy with the format/conditions?

Can someone set up a poll for this??

I've seen comments saying they would like to see a 2nd tier comp played pre-season, at suburnban grounds as stand alone games, and without AFL "interference".

But the harsh reality is that no-one would be prepared to fund or sponsor that.

The Foxtel/AFL proposal is realistically the only possible way a 2nd tier comp could be introduced, so if the SANFL, it's clubs and supporters really want to see such a competition evolve, they may need to consider what changes need to be made to the way we currently operate are necessary to make it work. And in doing so, not affect the integrity of the SANFL comp.

[sjt]

sjt, you have no evidence at all to claim the SANFL don't know the terms and conditions.

You are also incorrect to say that the SANFL 'signed their clubs up'. Have they signed up Centrals? Or Glenelg? Or WWT? Or Norwood? Or Sturt? Or only those clubs who want to participate?

I can also assure you that the vast majority of players are very keen to play in it.

As for the guernsey, the club sponsor's name will be on it. Regarding national exposure, yes, I would be very happy for interstaters to see West Adelaide play.

The difficulty with your argument is that perhaps it's hard to fit a pre-conceived opinion with the facts.

"sjt, you have no evidence at all to claim the SANFL don't know the terms and conditions"

Well if they do, they shouldn't have kept it a secret from the clubs. The only evidence I have is the statements made by the non participating clubs;

Glenelg:

Thirdly, there are a number of unresolved factors with regard to conditions of
participation in the competition as currently presented by the AFL including
costs and associated commercial implications including sponsorship rights.
Notwithstanding the above, our Club remains broadly supportive of the concept for
such a competition and see some merit in future participation should the issues be
addressed and we earn the right to participate in the future.

Norwood joint press release.

Regrettably, the current version of the concept does not meet what we would consider to be the
minimum financial requirements our Club’s would need to participate effectively in the competition. It
is our view that the cost of participating would not be fully covered by the prize money on offer, and
would therefore ultimately represent a new cost to our Clubs.

As several other logistical and financial considerations also remain unresolved

Also Chandler on the radio last night said they still weren't sure of sponsorship implications, however the clubs didn't have to worry as the new guernseys would be paid for. Good one.

I can also assure you that the vast majority of players are very keen to play in it. I haven't seen this evidence, nor spoken to a vast majority of players so won't contradict your assurance.

The SANFL did sign up to the concept. Unless the commission was intending to play, I assume they intended some SANFL teams to participate. I understand participation is not compulsory nor ever said it was.
December 9th
THE SANFL has signed on to be part of the AFL's state Leagues Championship today, Localfootysa understands.

The SANFL's chief officer football and corporate operations Darren Chandler will be announcing the league's support for the champion's league-style tournament today.

I'm not sure what you have interpreted my pre-conceived opinion to be. I don't believe my opinion is hard to "fit" with the facts.
I like the concept. Good luck to the clubs that have chosen to participate. Hopefully, the clubs can negotiate better terms-quite simple.

[Hazydog]

The SANFL's chief officer football and corporate operations Darren Chandler will be announcing the league's support for the champion's league-style tournament today.

My take on this is that the SANFL were giving clubs the go ahead to accept invitations should they wish to. I would have thought that any game not originally scheduled by the SANFL would need to be ratified by them.

[FlyingHigh]

Given that this is just more than the Eagles view, I hope it is okay to copy their email across here:

Please see below for the joint media release sent by the Woodville West Torrens Football Club yesterday regarding the SANFL Champions League Cup competition.

The Clubs represented by the undersigned have all given considerable thought to the proposed Champions League Cup concept and all agree that it could offer an exciting opportunity for our clubs and players on the national stage.

There are however, a number of unresolved issues. Regrettably, the current version of the concept does not offer the financial incentive required to participate in the competition. It is our unanimous view that the cost of participating would not be covered by the prize money currently on offer, and would therefore ultimately represent a new cost to our Clubs.

In addition, the proposed draw requires the successful teams to play up to an additional four games scheduled within the current home and away season, thus forfeiting all of their scheduled byes in the lead up to the major round of the SANFL.

This is a key point. Simply, participation would severely test the resilience and depth of our team’s playing resources, and our volunteer reserves. Without considerable financial upside, the opportunity cost of reducing our focus and competitiveness within the SANFL competition cannot be justified.

Further, the clubs are unable to commit without information regarding sponsorship, given we are all contractually obliged to play in our SANFL competition guernsey’s. We are advised this is not possible.

As several other logistical and financial considerations also remain unresolved, the Central District, Norwood, Woodville West Torrens, Glenelg and Sturt Football Clubs have decided that they are unable to accept the invitation from the SANFL to participate in the proposed Champions League Cup in its current format.

Kris Grant (CEO - CDFC)

Dominic Shepley (CEO – NFC)

Kurt Slaven (Pres – WWTFC)

Rob Nelson (CEO – GFC)

Matt Benson (CEO – SFC)



Kind Regards

WWTFC

[redandblack]

So presumably they all got together to work out what they'd do, rather than each club individually?

[CUTTERMAN]

I would think that the club CEO's & Presidents would be better informed than we are concerning the terms of playing in this comp, therefore I am willing to believe that someone like Matt Benson is acting for the best interests of my club, that is what he is there for. So after looking at all the information and proposals presented he believes that it is a detriment to the club then that's good enough for me.
NATIONAL STATE LEAGUE COMPETITION- great idea
CURRENT PROPOSAL- poorly thought out and rushed
If every club has to foot their own costs for competing how many would come out of this at a loss? Is it worth your club running at a loss in this comp just to compete in it? With Sturt so financially tight I wouldn't.
Who is footing the bill for GWS etc to compete, I'd think the AFL are.
So yes, I'd like to know all of this, seems that there is a definate lack of details in the whole proposal.

[Mark_Beswick]

I'm for my club having national exposure - will help with sponsorship and future recruting

[Apachebulldog]

R&B most footy followers on this site do want to see a a real national Aussie Rules comp and not some mickey mouse comp concocted by the AFL as we know everything the AFL touches turns to crap, if they were really serious they would scrap the AFL ( vfl ) and create a national comp with teams from every state and territory, will they i don't think so they only look after what benefits Victoria AFL/VFL , too many people have been fooled and seduced by the crappy pretty footy they are manufacturing year after year to the gullible masses, thank goodness we have clubs in this state who have the balls to say how it really is and have decline their offer to participate in an ill conceived venture, while i am at it the SANFL have become and are now officially the toadies of the AFL and if people cannot see this they are obviously blind.

[redandblack]

5 clubs have declined, 4 have agreed, so it's not that clear-cut.

[CoverKing]

sjt, you have no evidence at all to claim the SANFL don't know the terms and conditions.

You are also incorrect to say that the SANFL 'signed their clubs up'. Have they signed up Centrals? Or Glenelg? Or WWT? Or Norwood? Or Sturt? Or only those clubs who want to participate?

I can also assure you that the vast majority of players are very keen to play in it.

As for the guernsey, the club sponsor's name will be on it. Regarding national exposure, yes, I would be very happy for interstaters to see West Adelaide play.

The difficulty with your argument is that perhaps it's hard to fit a pre-conceived opinion with the facts.

Incorrect RnB. Alot of players are not keen on it that iv spoken to. The bye weekend provides a week off from football, where they can just have a rest, mentally more than anything (as we know the demands are just as great as they are in the AFL), go home for the weekend (country players, interstate players). Bye weekends are as good as any for the players and this has been taken away from them. Im not happy Westies are in it to be honest. They should worry about getting the $ to pay our players to perform in our comp, and get our first premiership since 1983

[redandblack]

If you miss 4 byes, you're in the GF.

Given our form recently after a bye, I'm happy we're in

The players I've spoken to are very keen.

[JK]

5 clubs have declined, 4 have agreed, so it's not that clear-cut.

Yeah fair call, I wouldnt class 5/9 a majority either

[StrayDog]

I can also assure you that the vast majority of players are very keen to play in it.

Anecdotal at best.

[redandblack]

I can also assure you that the vast majority of players are very keen to play in it.

Anecdotal at best.

Interesting article in the 'Tiser today (can't find a link), with Andy Collin's thoughts about this comp.

He called West's decision a 'no-brainer' and thought the refusing clubs were short-sighted.

He also said that West's players were willing to play for nothing to be a part of it. (that makes it no longer anecdotal).

To all the AFL conspiracy theorists, the AFL have welcomed the SA clubs and said they respect the decision of the refusing clubs. Can anyone tell me why it's still a subversive AFL anti-SANFL plot?