Suicide.

[Lightning McQueen]

I agree that Suicide is selfish.
But who am I to judge anyone when I have been through some dark days myself, and all for selfish reasons.

But what about those that can't get away from their Hell? ie: Rape, loss of child/children/family

So close no matter how far.

[Hondo]

My thinking is unless you have walked in their shoes it's tough to understand and/or make a judgement on them. If we are in turmoil because they have gone imagine the turmoil in their minds leading up to their tragic decision. I can only begin to think what their mindset would be like

I wonder if suicide rates are on the rise or have always been the same. I think I heard on the radio that it's the biggest killer of males between ages 12-50 or something like that. My hope is that removing the stigma of depression and the prejudices (ie, they are weak or selfish ... they probably are but they are likely very aware of it but can't solve it) will help people seek help for their illness and reduce the rate of suicide.

From my previous workplace the General Manager and the 30 year old son of one of his partners have taken their own lives. In both cases they had outwardly successful lives with stable families and no financial problems. Seemingly no outward reason yet they are gone.

[7-Dog]

I agree that Suicide is selfish.
But who am I to judge anyone when I have been through some dark days myself, and all for selfish reasons.

But what about those that can't get away from their Hell? ie: Rape, loss of child/children/family

So close no matter how far.

Metallica do help

[Lightning McQueen]

I agree that Suicide is selfish.
But who am I to judge anyone when I have been through some dark days myself, and all for selfish reasons.

But what about those that can't get away from their Hell? ie: Rape, loss of child/children/family

So close no matter how far.

Metallica do help

A lot of their music was very relative to my teenage years.

[Psyber]

Some people become so profoundly depressed, and delusional with it, that they come to believe that their continued existence, by itself, is causing so much harm to their loved ones that the only thing they can do to save them is to cease to exist.
Therefore, it doesn't occur to them that killing themselves is harming those they leave behind - from that perspective they are saving them from intolerable suffering.
Those in this state that do consider the pain the survivors will feel may then be led by their illness to think that the only humane thing to do is to kill their family members first before disposing of themselves.

Fortunately most depressive illnesses are less severe than this, but I've seen a few people who were approaching this state.
Even so, I've sometimes had trouble convincing the public hospitals they should be given one of the precious inpatient beds.
"Have they attempted suicide yet!"

Depression can be looked at as occurring in three forms:
1. A reaction to current loss or stress - it is grief.
2. A reaction to the recall of past traumatic events that have left their mark and not been fully recovered from.
3. A state arising out of the blue for no apparent reason, or as an unusually severe reaction to what seems a minor trigger.

It is in the latter group that checking the family history for a pattern of similar tendencies suggesting a genetic factor is important.
It is also in this group that the severe form described above tends to develop.

Of course, mixed states are possible, even common..

[nuggety goodness]

Have you had to deal with divorce, custody battles, teenage children and the trouble's thay can get into, drugs, financial difficulties, rape or other victims of crime?
Try growing up or living in the northern suburbs where you are constantly labelled no matter how you present yourself.
It's all good to see life through rose coloured glasses and have everything run pretty smoothly, I've seen many good people fall to pieces through no fault of their own and only they would know what they are dealing with.
Selfish....or no-one to turn to, or don't want to burden others with their problems?
Sure enough, if you could see the signs you'd intervene, sometimes you just don't even see the signs.

Grew up in Salisbury/Elizabeth, i'm part aboriginal so labels were a plenty, mother has been married three times, i never knew my father for 17 years, lived with multiple different men, mums second husband beat me and her within inches of our lives on two occasions, i was age 9 and 11, was heavily drinking and smoking dope from age 14-17 while my mother was pre-occuppied with husband number 3 and was distanced from her by their relationship. Externally i was fine, internally unravelling....

everyone has problems, some deal with them better than others. Suicide is a selfish decision IMO, nothing can become so bad that you have no hope, people just don't look where they will find it!

[Lightning McQueen]

Have you had to deal with divorce, custody battles, teenage children and the trouble's thay can get into, drugs, financial difficulties, rape or other victims of crime?
Try growing up or living in the northern suburbs where you are constantly labelled no matter how you present yourself.
It's all good to see life through rose coloured glasses and have everything run pretty smoothly, I've seen many good people fall to pieces through no fault of their own and only they would know what they are dealing with.
Selfish....or no-one to turn to, or don't want to burden others with their problems?
Sure enough, if you could see the signs you'd intervene, sometimes you just don't even see the signs.

Grew up in Salisbury/Elizabeth, i'm part aboriginal so labels were a plenty, mother has been married three times, i never knew my father for 17 years, lived with multiple different men, mums second husband beat me and her within inches of our lives on two occasions, i was age 9 and 11, was heavily drinking and smoking dope from age 14-17 while my mother was pre-occuppied with husband number 3 and was distanced from her by their relationship. Externally i was fine, internally unravelling....

everyone has problems, some deal with them better than others. Suicide is a selfish decision IMO, nothing can become so bad that you have no hope, people just don't look where they will find it!

Looks like a tough upbringing early in your life gave you a more positive outlook for when you reached manhood, as kids we become more accustomed to what's happening around us and learn to take things in our stride.
I see it as more of those who hit the teenage years and can't handle change, setbacks, pressure and rejection amongst other things.
You have obviously turned the negative's from your life into positive's, that it is very admirable and something that isn't easily achieved, well done. I can see how you'd classify suicide as selfish, not everyone has your inner-strength though or the circle of friends to open up to.
I guess there's no right or wrong answer, if someone can sit there and hate their life that much that they want to end it, the word selfish doesn't enter the equation in my eyes. Where were those that they are being selfish to when they needed them the most?

[locky801]

A very sad topic, have lost a few friends in that way due to depression and unfortuantely went to many many more in my time in SAPOL, is really not a topic you can say alot about however what I can add is that my time in SAPOL showed that it is a very large problem within our society and moves must be made somehow to get on top of the situation. A very very sad illness

[Dogwatcher]

It's sad that this topic has resurfaced.
But also fantastic that as blokes, who generally struggle to talk about these things, people feel they can share their stories and contribute to the healing of others. Well done, honestly, to all who have contributed. And to those who haven't but have read the thread, I hope you have gained something from it.
I had a look through this thread and realised I'd posted early in its life, over three years ago.
I still think about my friend and wish he was still with us. I feel better but it has at times been a rough ride.
As I said earlier, it does get easier.

[White Line Fever]

An old footy coach of mine once said to me regardless of what happens today, win or lose, life or death, the sun will rise tomorrow.
Strangely whenever I'm having a bad day I remember tomorrow is a new day and i never allow myself to stay 'down'.

Such a taboo subject it just makes me sad.
especially young people.

And Psyber your post is a POV i've never considered.

NG.. what doesn't kill ya makes ya stronger hey mate

[Barto]

Any one who labels suicide as a selfish act hasn't got a clue. I seriously doubt that people choose to be mentally ill.

[Sojourner]

I am having a break at the moment, yet i have been a phone counsellor for Lifeline for several years and this issue is dealt with by a number of counsellors on a regular basis, there are no shortage of reasons why, yet the reason that I did want to comment is because there are also answers to for people that find themselves in that position.

What I have seen happen in a re-occuring theme is that a male will see his marriage break up, often because its his own fault through sleeping with someone else or simply having had enough of his partner, initially there can be happiness at no longer being married and so on, then often what seems to happen is that his ex meets up with someone else and suddenly he realises that this isn't actually what he wanted and there is no way of getting back what he had and this is where a number of problems suddenly seem to snowball as there is no option of marriage counselling or options to save the marriage once its done and dusted.

There is no magic list of suggestions to stop it from happening, yet I have a few that I feel may be of some help either to people that are going through depression or know someone who is struggling -

First off the best thing any male can do is to make sure that they have a GP that they see for Health Check ups. Often males simply don't go at all, or if they have to go for a sick note we just get any doctor on at the surgery and have no continuity with any Dr. Find out from your mates who is good, or who has the longest waiting lists at the surgery and you are onto a good start. Build a good relationship with your GP and get to the point where you can discuss depression or other issues with them, you might be surprised at the capacity that they have to help in all matters from impotence through to depression / anxiety.

Dont be afraid to put in a call to LifeLine or the Salvos Care Line or whoever, you can remain totally anonymous and often they can be quite helpful in working through a few issues, Lifeline can refer people on to Wesley Credit Line who free of charge deal with your creditors with you if you are facing financial problems.

Finally my suggestion is to belong to a club or community group and to put yourself out there to make friends and to keep yourself involved in something that gives you happiness be that Model Trains or your local football club or whatever.

The one thing about depression is that the rut never lasts for long term, despite the illness there will always be good days and for many the good days just become more and more once treated. I often think of those that have been lost to Suicide and wonder today what their lives could have been like if they had just hung on for a bit longer and got through the many problems that were present at the time.

Anyway there are just a few thoughts, again just my own and not the position of Lifeline.

[fisho mcspaz]

Two of my dad's family - my great-aunt and her son - took their own lives. Depression runs in the family. But no one talks about it and I don't think that's good. Dad has depression but he won't talk about it either and he used to hit the roof if the subject of mental health was ever brought up. I think for him depression is still very stigmatised, probably because of how his family has hushed up what happened to his cousin and auntie. He's better now that he's taken up cycling and triathlons and stuff but I reckon it would have been a lot easier for him if he'd been able to talk about it.

Suicide is something that I have given a bit of thought to over the last few weeks. I've been in almost constant pain with these bloody headaches and whatnot and it's turning me into someone I really don't like all that much. I seem to always be in a low mood but more than that, I can't seem to think about anything BUT how much pain I'm in. Having had depression for some time, I quite often feel low anyway, but I like to have a laugh before I have a cry, and I like to make other people laugh even if I don't feel like it myself. After months of trying various treatments and medications and nothing much happening - there are times when I think I'd be better off dead. It's having a severe impact on my work and on my quality of life. I am sure it affects my family as well, even though I'm doing my best to be cheerful and get things done around the place. Sometimes I just can't keep it up and it makes things so difficult for us all and that's when I start thinking about giving up.

I don't think I would ever kill myself because of the impact it would have on my partner and my children. I know that they still love me even though I have been a miserable twat lately. Even if I end up being crook for ages and have to give up my study and whatever else, I can still give to them, they're more than worth it. But I'm hoping I'll get some answers soon - my doctor worked out I'm not actually having headaches, the pain is something to do with the nerves in my face. So I had a brain scan today and should find out more next week. Anyway, I know I probably haven't been doing much besides whinging on here the last couple of weeks and I'm sorry. This is the last time I'm gunna mention pain or headaches or any of that s***.

[Psyber]

I can sympathise fisho. The genetic predisposition to depression is strong in my mothers' family, and I've been on antidepressants for 25 years myself.
When I was young, I'd convinced myself it wasn't going to happen to me, but symptoms began to emerge, intermittently at first, during my late teens and early adulthood.
I was resistant to accepting that it was happening to me, and I didn't look for treatment until it became consistent and was interfering with my life and putting a strain on my second marriage.
My wife pointed out to me, "You are following your mother's pattern of picking arguments because the adrenaline rush cheers you up."

I tried about 8 different antidepressants before I found the one that works for me without the side-effects which were the biggest problem with most of them.
[The problem is no one of them is superior for all sufferers, you need to find the one that suits your physiology, and you need to give each a go for at least about 8 weeks.]

On the bright side, my symptoms settled quickly on any antidepressant and the main problem for me has been the nuisance of side effects.
That lead me to try giving up on antidepressants from time to time, but the symptoms always re-emerged gradually when I did.
It has only been the last 10 years that I have found one that doesn't cause me at least some side effects.

While I never seriously considered suicide, I certainly had patches, before I accepted treatment, where I wondered if it was worth going on, and patches where I was phobic about going near the edges of cliffs or tall buildings - obviously a defence mechanism in retrospect.

[southee]

A very sad topic, have lost a few friends in that way due to depression and unfortuantely went to many many more in my time in SAPOL, is really not a topic you can say alot about however what I can add is that my time in SAPOL showed that it is a very large problem within our society and moves must be made somehow to get on top of the situation. A very very sad illness

Yep, my time in SAPOL opened my eyes to how bad this problem really is.

Society tends to "throw it under the carpet"....

Alot more needs to be done on this.

[Dogwatcher]

I thought it was worth linking this piece that I have written:

viewtopic.php?f=47&t=31970

[Phantom Gossiper]

I think anyone who thinks suicide is selfish is quite honestly stupid!!!

You dont know whats going through their heads, you dont know how they are feeling, you obviously dont understand just how serious and debilitating depression is! You really think they are thinking straight and sensibly if they are going to take their own life?!

Suicide is nothing short of tragic in my opinion, a means of a way for the person to feel like they are escaping, a person who probably has lacked a good support network and the right help, a person whose will to carry on living that way has died and so has their faith in life.

If someone came up to you and mentioned they were having thoughts of committing suicide, would you tell them they were being selfish?! Could you imagine how that would feel to them and how that message might be interpretted in their minds?

[sherminator]

Well said PG.
Quite a lot of my cricket teammates are mourning the loss of one of their friends this week. It is such a tragic thing especially as it could have been avoided given there are support networks such as Lifeline, Beyond Blue etc. Hopefully the mental illness stigma will eventually disappear and these instances become fewer and fewer.