APPS

[nuggety goodness]

i am not a SAAFL basher FS..so dont even think of moving it in that direction..

now what about some answers to serious questions?

Good

what was so broken that had to be fixed?

The game has changed, external infuences affecting players decisions on where to play and no system allows other clubs to poach them with ease

why have we given up the extra 2 year trial period?
did or did not the delegates get told they had to vote it in or all our players would be rated at zero by other leagues?

Your main gripe is that you feel the SAAFL has been blackmailed? As i said, to an extent they have been however its not un reasonable request in 98% of the clubs cases IMO

Could SAAFL $afford$ not to implement it?

why do we have to have tiered system in our own league?

Still makes it very hard for lower clubs to comepete with the higher/bigger and $$ up clubs.

how is a club with no juniors or school connections supposed to get itself out of hole and improve its playing stocks?

How many clubs has no juniors or school connections? Ovingham? allowances are made for special circumstance


Zed its not a slinging match im trying to get into either i think a few people are slightly over reacting and over estimating the impact of the points system.....

Dont resist change people

I'm with FS all the way here, I think the points system wil be an excellent concept, not just in the SAAFL, but all over the state. It will be nice to know that if our club is going to lose players to clubs with coin, that they may at least think twice with players having the points value attached. And as a club that promotes juniors, I think it will only benefit us, as well as the 95% of other SAAFL clubs with a junior set-up.

Give it a chance people.

i'm all for it too, i think those that have to recruit heavily and those with a high turnover rate of players are the ones that will be affected the most. I have a feeling we may get a slight allowance for this year but i'm not sure we'll need it to be honest, we aren't recruiting many, if any, A grade players from other clubs and looking to get some ex players back .

For those players that jump clubs every year/couple years this will make their life a little more interesting as clubs will have to make sure they will fit in their limits. Interesting times ahead.

I can see however how some clubs will be a bit dirty on the league because of the timing issue, but everyone's in the same boat, so play on!

[Footy Smart]

Well said Pag and NG.

and i think Zed your main issue is with the timing and the CFB $pressure$ on the SAAFL not so much the system itself? am i correct in saying that?

[X Runna]

did or did not the clubs get told 3-4 weeks ago at the meeting that if they didnt bring in the points system now all other leagues would rate our players at zero???? "if i dont get a yes vote tonight they will all be rated zero"

that is blackmail..it was meant to be trialled for another 2 years.. why the change?answer some questions instead of sounding so smug at other clubs problems..and pag..the fact it was out since may means nothing..it wasnt coming in for another 2 years remember??????..sheesh..then we get told 4 weeks ago its in NOW!

of course we have to deal with it..doesnt mean i have to like it or agree with it FS..i think you are really highlighting your own clubs personal beefs at losing players..and using this as a way to stop it..what was so broken that had to be fixed?

Check the minutes of the 2009 AGM - it was decided then the trial of the APPS would apply in 2010, NOTHING about 2011 or 2012. Some clubs did monitor it & internally trial it.......& those who did have made the informed decision.

It has had a couple of tweaks over the past few weeks, but in principle - it is a winner.

[zedman]

i understand why a club like yourselves would vote for it. and i know clubs have to do what is right by themselves. but what about clubs who too be sucessful (play div1/div2) rely on attracting other players from both within the saafl and country leagues? now im not saying i know all the ins and out of the APPS but it seems its not the best option for the WHOLE league.

time will tell i guess

There are a lot of positives to it, and I couldn't find a negative.

Under the system, points are to be worked out for season 2011 based on where a player was in 2009. So someone who has been with you a couple of years won't have many points to worry about. Then every year he is with you after that, another point drops off, as it does with every player on your list.

The whole idea of the scheme right around the state is to prevent clubs spending the big bucks that other clubs can't afford to match & stacking their sides.

Nobby Symes from the Barossa, Light & Gawler League was one of the guest speakers. He had absolutely nothing to gain by being there, other than in the spirit of sportsmanship. He stated quite categorically that there were many country clubs with big fat budgets ready to virtually rape the SAAFL of talent if we voted no to the affiliation.

The money would be so big, and carrying no points because we weren't involved - country clubs were about to go beserk & when you are talking sometimes $2000.00 a week from some clubs, you CAN see why the players would go.

Teoboy.........the colleges are being given a zero rating for any lad who played 25 games for the college as a 12-18yo. Even if that lad goes on to AFL and then comes back to his college the year after he retires from the AFL - zero points.

SAAFL are to operate within the basic guidelines of the CFL, however - the SAAFL does have the right to grant & support concessions. It also has the right to have certain conditions altered to suit the SAAFL as an individual body.

I think you'll find the clubs who voted for this tonight had done their homework pretty well, there were a lot of questions asked and answered. The more one read on the merits of the APPS, and the more one heard at the meeting tonight - it became pretty clear to most I think and that is why the count was so one-sided.

"He stated quite categorically that there were many country clubs with big fat budgets ready to virtually rape the SAAFL of talent if we voted no to the affiliation."

you said it yourself..thats blackmail to me..but not for you..ok..and i wont be reading the minutes of an agm months ago when i am just a person involved in SAAFL ..are you saying there was NEVER a 3 year trial?

[zedman]

Well said Pag and NG.

and i think Zed your main issue is with the timing and the CFB $pressure$ on the SAAFL not so much the system itself? am i correct in saying that?

yes FS..thats all..the timing mainly..

[Pag]

i understand why a club like yourselves would vote for it. and i know clubs have to do what is right by themselves. but what about clubs who too be sucessful (play div1/div2) rely on attracting other players from both within the saafl and country leagues? now im not saying i know all the ins and out of the APPS but it seems its not the best option for the WHOLE league.

time will tell i guess

There are a lot of positives to it, and I couldn't find a negative.

Under the system, points are to be worked out for season 2011 based on where a player was in 2009. So someone who has been with you a couple of years won't have many points to worry about. Then every year he is with you after that, another point drops off, as it does with every player on your list.

The whole idea of the scheme right around the state is to prevent clubs spending the big bucks that other clubs can't afford to match & stacking their sides.

Nobby Symes from the Barossa, Light & Gawler League was one of the guest speakers. He had absolutely nothing to gain by being there, other than in the spirit of sportsmanship. He stated quite categorically that there were many country clubs with big fat budgets ready to virtually rape the SAAFL of talent if we voted no to the affiliation.

The money would be so big, and carrying no points because we weren't involved - country clubs were about to go beserk & when you are talking sometimes $2000.00 a week from some clubs, you CAN see why the players would go.

Teoboy.........the colleges are being given a zero rating for any lad who played 25 games for the college as a 12-18yo. Even if that lad goes on to AFL and then comes back to his college the year after he retires from the AFL - zero points.

SAAFL are to operate within the basic guidelines of the CFL, however - the SAAFL does have the right to grant & support concessions. It also has the right to have certain conditions altered to suit the SAAFL as an individual body.

I think you'll find the clubs who voted for this tonight had done their homework pretty well, there were a lot of questions asked and answered. The more one read on the merits of the APPS, and the more one heard at the meeting tonight - it became pretty clear to most I think and that is why the count was so one-sided.

"He stated quite categorically that there were many country clubs with big fat budgets ready to virtually rape the SAAFL of talent if we voted no to the affiliation."

you said it yourself..thats blackmail to me..but not for you..ok..and i wont be reading the minutes of an agm months ago when i am just a person involved in SAAFL ..are you saying there was NEVER a 3 year trial?

He did say that zed, but would you rather him be honest and tell you thats how it was gonna be, or find out later on when all your guns are getting pinched for zero points? I can see where your coming from with the blackmail thing, and he did make it very clear on the night that's what would happen, but I'd much rather he be upfront and honest about it rather than miss that bit of information out.

[zedman]

yes i agree..better to know before it eventuates.

[LaughingKookaburra]

we'll see some very interesting results next year...... Just out of curiosity I would like to see the stats for the amounts of 200 point floggings @ SAAFL across the top 6 divs this year compared to those leagues with the points system. I just hope no clubs go under during the initial progress of the new system. Make no mistake this is a major change and certain clubs will struggle because of it. To say in hindsight that they should not have themselves in that position in the first place sounds easier than it actually is.
There is not a single club in the entire league that can honestly say that one of their off seasons recruiting in its existance would not have crept over the points allowance. Some of those clubs might be going through that cycle now.
If clubs had that 2 more years to come under then each of their recruits if from 3 point leagues would be worth 1 point by the end of the introduction. Anyway all the best to ALL clubs under the new system.
I wonder how clubs would have voted if their players were still worth points to country leagues but we would come in line in 2 years.....

[silent hour]

we'll see some very interesting results next year...... Just out of curiosity I would like to see the stats for the amounts of 200 point floggings @ SAAFL across the top 6 divs this year compared to those leagues with the points system. I just hope no clubs go under during the initial progress of the new system. Make no mistake this is a major change and certain clubs will struggle because of it. To say in hindsight that they should not have themselves in that position in the first place sounds easier than it actually is.
There is not a single club in the entire league that can honestly say that one of their off seasons recruiting in its existance would not have crept over the points allowance. Some of those clubs might be going through that cycle now.
If clubs had that 2 more years to come under then each of their recruits if from 3 point leagues would be worth 1 point by the end of the introduction. Anyway all the best to ALL clubs under the new system.
I wonder how clubs would have voted if their players were still worth points to country leagues but we would come in line in 2 years.....

Very good LK!

I think what I've bolded above would have been a better option for all clubs rather than the scare tactic (blackmail) which wAs used.

[X Runna]

we'll see some very interesting results next year...... Just out of curiosity I would like to see the stats for the amounts of 200 point floggings @ SAAFL across the top 6 divs this year compared to those leagues with the points system. I just hope no clubs go under during the initial progress of the new system. Make no mistake this is a major change and certain clubs will struggle because of it. To say in hindsight that they should not have themselves in that position in the first place sounds easier than it actually is.
There is not a single club in the entire league that can honestly say that one of their off seasons recruiting in its existance would not have crept over the points allowance. Some of those clubs might be going through that cycle now.
If clubs had that 2 more years to come under then each of their recruits if from 3 point leagues would be worth 1 point by the end of the introduction. Anyway all the best to ALL clubs under the new system.
I wonder how clubs would have voted if their players were still worth points to country leagues but we would come in line in 2 years.....

Very good LK!

I think what I've bolded above would have been a better option for all clubs rather than the scare tactic (blackmail) which wAs used.

One can't have their cake and eat it too !

[One Eyed]

I have a question. With this new system will it take into account and then inturn give exemption to a club that say has lost 10 players the season before and needs to re stock ? If not they are in a bucket load of trouble

[Footy Smart]

I have a question. With this new system will it take into account and then inturn give exemption to a club that say has lost 10 players the season before and needs to re stock ? If not they are in a bucket load of trouble

If you have lost 10 players then you no doubt have lost some points, meaning you will be able to add 3-4 reasonable players and the trouble wont be a bucket load. Its the clubs responsability to manage players properly now.

[zedman]

I have a question. With this new system will it take into account and then inturn give exemption to a club that say has lost 10 players the season before and needs to re stock ? If not they are in a bucket load of trouble

If you have lost 10 players then you no doubt have lost some points, meaning you will be able to add 3-4 reasonable players and the trouble wont be a bucket load. Its the clubs responsability to manage players properly now.

you have assumed that the 10 are worth points..what if they arent? 10 out is 10 out..you need 42 to run A and B grades..you cant cut someone in half and make them two players..

its always been the clubs responsibilty to manage players..nothing new there..

[Footy Smart]

I have a question. With this new system will it take into account and then inturn give exemption to a club that say has lost 10 players the season before and needs to re stock ? If not they are in a bucket load of trouble

If you have lost 10 players then you no doubt have lost some points, meaning you will be able to add 3-4 reasonable players and the trouble wont be a bucket load. Its the clubs responsability to manage players properly now.

you have assumed that the 10 are worth points..what if they arent? 10 out is 10 out..you need 42 to run A and B grades..you cant cut someone in half and make them two players..

its always been the clubs responsibilty to manage players..nothing new there..

yes assumed, knew someone who pick that up. You have also assumed/scenario that 10 players are all worth 0 points and have left? applications for additional points can be made and granted with disgretion (i believe)

sorry better manage their players

[One Eyed]

Not necessarily so FS, I suppose if you can prove of those 10, say 7 were A grade players. I am just playing devils advocate thats all. If you believe the talk Fitzroy have lost half there A grade. If they go and try to replace, the likelyhood is these guys will attract points and Fitroy will be at a loss. ( just using Roys as a case study )

[Pag]

Not necessarily so FS, I suppose if you can prove of those 10, say 7 were A grade players. I am just playing devils advocate thats all. If you believe the talk Fitzroy have lost half there A grade. If they go and try to replace, the likelyhood is these guys will attract points and Fitroy will be at a loss. ( just using Roys as a case study )

Then that would be bad luck for Fitzroy. Not every club's list gets better every year, and if this is their year to go backwards, then so be it.

[TheAussieBogan]

Has anyone done the Maths on their 2010 sides and how many points you would have attracted?

[piccachu]

Has anyone done the Maths on their 2010 sides and how many points you would have attracted?
Has anyone done the Maths on their 2010 sides and how many points you would have attracted?

i tried to tally it up yesterday and i believe Portland would have only had 5 points this year and next year we will have 2 carry over points. which leaves us 13 points to recruit with

[Mr Beefy]

Has anyone done the Maths on their 2010 sides and how many points you would have attracted?

Everybody should have, otherwise you have no idea how many carryover points you have and what you have left to play with.

[FOURTH ESTATE]

Question was posed to the SAAFL office yesterday and they did not know the answer.

With D1 - D3 players now worth 3pts are the players you recruited in 2010 from other D1 - D3 clubs are they still 1pt under the old system or will they now carry the 3pts less 1pt for 2011.

If we follow the new system most clubs could be in trouble very quickly.

I wonder how many delegates at the meeting Monday night knew how many pts they were on and who their recruiting committees are talking to and have commitments from.

I would say less than 1/4 of the delegates in the room would know.

We have dug our selves a big whole now and the standard of the league will drop as a result of it.

The SAAFL wasn't broken so why try and fix it????????????????