SAAFL Div 7 & Div 7R (2011)

[D14]

DeeMan you seem to have done a triple backflip since your comments on page 1 of the div 6 forum when you stated and I quote "I for one will never get involved with the SAAFL again"

you are quite correct my friend
but for me to sit back in this case and see what is happening with our game by the selfeshness,ego driven and money hungry individuals that are involved in the game now,and not do anything would be more hypocritical.
i wrote an article thread having ago at the people who run footy and clubs that was taken down but some of the comments that came back before the removal was ,and i quote,if your not happy about the ways the footy is run,dont sit their and do nothing but put your hand up and do something instead of mouthing off.
well i have put my hand up and ovies have accepted
now if any good comes of it we will wait and see but i can say that it wont succeed because of lack of hard work and effort
hope that answers your question

All hail dee man...

[watchdog]

DeeMan you seem to have done a triple backflip since your comments on page 1 of the div 6 forum when you stated and I quote "I for one will never get involved with the SAAFL again"

you are quite correct my friend
but for me to sit back in this case and see what is happening with our game by the selfeshness,ego driven and money hungry individuals that are involved in the game now,and not do anything would be more hypocritical.
i wrote an article thread having ago at the people who run footy and clubs that was taken down but some of the comments that came back before the removal was ,and i quote,if your not happy about the ways the footy is run,dont sit their and do nothing but put your hand up and do something instead of mouthing off.
well i have put my hand up and ovies have accepted
now if any good comes of it we will wait and see but i can say that it wont succeed because of lack of hard work and effort
hope that answers your question

All hail dee man...

Good onya mate. That is good for footy and Ovingham. When I first read what you wrote I though it was a bit silly. Especially as you never backed up your comments with any facts to support why you wrpte that. You can never let a bad experience get in the way of your passion.

[Pag]

It probably would be tough to sort out. I am sure the SAAFL aren't there to look pretty though . If we can come up with something in the time it took to type it out, the surely they can come up with something much, much better.

Don't take those numbers literally, it was just an example of a possible system. As I said 10+ players from Div 4 to Div 7 in two years is way too much IMO. It pretty much means you have a Div 4 or 5 side playing in Div 7!

This is what the points system is going to stop. Glenunga can't recruit a whole Div 4 side over two years, or they'll be over the 15 they're entitled. I'm sure Bourkey has done the maths and their side will be just as legal as anyone else in Div 7.

only if div 4 is a 3 pointer which has not been confirmed i believe(in fact nothing is until the 29th)..if its a 1 pointer they will absorb them easily..plus the guys from last year all drop a point off ..yes?
good luck to them..they have endured pain for 3-4 years dropping grades..how the hell else are they meant to lift themselves out of the mire?..and MP raped HV and Kangaroo island for years..glasshouses morell..you post good material but on this one i think your off the mark slightly

I'm led to believe Div 1-3 will be worth three points and Div 4 -7 will be worth two.

[zedman]

yes but its not concrete..we have also been told things that have turned out to be wrong..until we get a vote and confirmation we are just guessing..

[morell]

good luck to them..they have endured pain for 3-4 years dropping grades..how the hell else are they meant to lift themselves out of the mire?

I agree, good luck to them, if they can get away with it and its in the rules then so be it. They have had a couple of down years so I hope they get the best out of their recruits. Let it be clear that my dig is not really aimed at Glenunga, more the SAAFL for allowing it to happen. I am also not against recruitment, thats not my point, I am against MASS recruitment, the type of upheaval that see Brahma Lodge just miss relegation one year and then make a GF the year after. The type of mass recruitment that sees clubs fortunes fluctuate wildly in other words.

Phantom mentioned Ovingham, North Pines, Wingfield as examples of clubs that have been decimated by this type of culture. What happens if Bourkey gets hit by a bus or decides to move on? It would rip the heart out of the place and see them end up like the aforementioned clubs.

The way to rise out of the mire is to build a culture from the ground up. Invest in juniors. Invest in recruiting people new to the sport. Invest in developing talent and .. sensibly bring in new people to the club from elsewhere where circumstances fit. Its about sustainability over instant success.

It's probably not a popular opinion that I hold, I dare say there would be a fair few within the Mitchell Park committee that would disagree with me as well.

..and MP raped HV and Kangaroo island for years..glasshouses morell..you post good material but on this one i think your off the mark slightly

We raped Happy Valley? Are you for real? The net gain of player movement between Happy Valley and Mitchell Park over the years would be pretty even and if anything would be in their favour. We have lost the Potters lads to them. They nicked Luke for a couple of years and they are always in Nat, Ben Weekley and others ears.

I chuckled a little when I saw your post because I was actually going to use the MP/HV situation as another example of what can happen when mass recruitment goes wrong. We gained a fair few (5+) players from Happy Valley in the 2008 off season and had a pretty good side in 2009, we were competitive in Div 6 that year and would have done very well in Div 7. Unfortunately they all went back to Happy Valley last year and as a result we just had the worst season on Mitchell Park's record. That mass player movement gutted our club. I'm not sure about Fitzroy's strength but I would hazard a guess that they have been severely weakened because of this.

In regards to the Kangaroo Island lads, your argument really doesn't make any sense. All of the KI lads that play for Mitchell Park live (or lived) in the area, were on the mainland for work/love and wanted to play a bit of footy as well. It's not like we poached them from their original clubs. They would literally have been unable to play footy on KI each weekend, so they played for us instead.

[zedman]

morell

you did just admit that you raped HV..5 players in one year..so thats the same as glenunga..thats all i was trying to get across..the fact they went back is irrelevant..your club has done what glenunga is doing..thats my point..hence glasshouses..

so no players from KI ever came over each saturday just to play for MP? they ALL lived here and worked here and had no intention of playing for their old clubs on KI? its 1 hour on the ferry..not hard to go back and forth..

[Jetters]

good luck to them..they have endured pain for 3-4 years dropping grades..how the hell else are they meant to lift themselves out of the mire?

I agree, good luck to them, if they can get away with it and its in the rules then so be it. They have had a couple of down years so I hope they get the best out of their recruits. Let it be clear that my dig is not really aimed at Glenunga, more the SAAFL for allowing it to happen. I am also not against recruitment, thats not my point, I am against MASS recruitment, the type of upheaval that see Brahma Lodge just miss relegation one year and then make a GF the year after. The type of mass recruitment that sees clubs fortunes fluctuate wildly in other words.

Phantom mentioned Ovingham, North Pines, Wingfield as examples of clubs that have been decimated by this type of culture. What happens if Bourkey gets hit by a bus or decides to move on? It would rip the heart out of the place and see them end up like the aforementioned clubs.

The way to rise out of the mire is to build a culture from the ground up. Invest in juniors. Invest in recruiting people new to the sport. Invest in developing talent and .. sensibly bring in new people to the club from elsewhere where circumstances fit. Its about sustainability over instant success.
It's probably not a popular opinion that I hold, I dare say there would be a fair few within the Mitchell Park committee that would disagree with me as well.


I think you are right on the money Morell. Problem is most are looking for instant success and aren't prepared to put in the work and stay patient until that hard work pays off. Thats how you build a sustainably successful club.

[zedman]

if you have 2 teams and no juniors pleases tell me how you are meant to get your club up if it is down..thx..

yes we all know about sustained success blah blah..and that is what we all want but it is not reality..also tell me who is going to coach a club who will tell him they wont recruit..they have no juniors..but in 10 years we will have so can you accept losing for 10 years as we make our way back to being competitive? who would you attract to your club to play 10 years of losing football.. what sponsors will pay up for that?..its fine for you to sit here all condescending on glenunga who are trying to get their juniors up and going again..you have juniors already(with a number in the 15s and 16s poached from other clubs as well )..yet unley still went and looted glenunga 2 years ago..go figure..

[morell]

morell

you did just admit that you raped HV..5 players in one year..so thats the same as glenunga..thats all i was trying to get across..the fact they went back is irrelevant..your club has done what glenunga is doing..thats my point..hence glasshouses..

We did a very similar thing to what Glenunga did yes, and we paid (are paying?) the price. Which is why I am arguing against it. It's the perfect example of what not to do.

I will also point out that Mitchell Park were promoted that year after not making the GF in the Div below, if we didn't recruit aggressively then we would have been spanked every game. Its not like we were already strong and making finals like Glenunga were last year.

What happens to Glenunga when the inevitable happens:

is is true fitzroy tried to get bourke back as coach this year so he wouldnt take any more players, he said no as he had a two year deal with glenunga he was going to honour.

i heard that is true.

this is not true.
Chad has never applied for the position as A grade coach at Fitzroy, nor has the club offered him the position
That is not to say that neither party may or may not be interested in the future, but are the facts as they stand.
Chad saw an opportunity, when Glenunga advertised the position of A grade coach, & the club wishes him all the best with his endeavours.

so no players from KI ever came over each saturday just to play for MP? they ALL lived here and worked here and had no intention of playing for their old clubs on KI? its 1 hour on the ferry..not hard to go back and forth..

Nope. Not that I know of. I think a couple might have gone back and played the odd cameo, but nothing serious.

Put it this way, we had representatives of the KI clubs the boys originally were from for a function at the club. What do you reckon the chances of having Fitzroy people at a Glenunga function this year? There is a difference between poaching and recruiting.

[zedman]

cheers morell..good chat..i would call it 40 all

[morell]

if you have 2 teams and no juniors pleases tell me how you are meant to get your club up if it is down..thx..

Develop an attractive culture and positive football environment for young men to enjoy. Make it a club that blokes will want to join because of the existing framework and not because of money or mates.

yes we all know about sustained success blah blah..and that is what we all want but it is not reality..also tell me who is going to coach a club who will tell him they wont recruit..

No-one is saying clubs cant recruit zedman, but there ought to be something limiting the number and quality of players able to join a club within a certain time frame. Otherwise it causes what we are seeing now - uneven competitions and clubs either dying off or struggling. I know there is a system in place but it clearly isn't working

they have no juniors..but in 10 years we will have so can you accept losing for 10 years as we make our way back to being competitive? who would you attract to your club to play 10 years of losing football.. what sponsors will pay up for that?..

The point would be that they should be in competitions and divisions that they are competitive in so that they don't have to play 10 years of losing football. You have essentially agreed with my initial notion of ensuring the integrity of the divisional structure of the SAAFL. Having 10+ Div 4 players move to Div 7 in two years perturbs that structure.

its fine for you to sit here all condescending on glenunga who are trying to get their juniors up and going again..you have juniors already(with a number in the 15s and 16s poached from other clubs as well )..yet unley still went and looted glenunga 2 years ago..go figure..

Your language gives your real thoughts away zedman. Why do you keep using pejorative terms like "rape" and "loot". It's this raping and looting that I am arguing against!

[morell]

cheers morell..good chat..i would call it 40 all

Oh man, I was just starting to have fun!

[zedman]

ok then..one more reply i will do

[zedman]

"Develop an attractive culture and positive football environment for young men to enjoy. Make it a club that blokes will want to join because of the existing framework and not because of money or mates"

sounds beautiful in utopia but at the coalface of result driven presidents supporters and the like..they dont have the patience..

"No-one is saying clubs cant recruit zedman, but there ought to be something limiting the number and quality of players able to join a club within a certain time frame. Otherwise it causes what we are seeing now - uneven competitions and clubs either dying off or struggling. I know there is a system in place but it clearly isn't working"

the APPS should/could/would fix that..we think..

"Your language gives your real thoughts away zedman. Why do you keep using pejorative terms like "rape" and "loot". It's this raping and looting that I am arguing against!"

i like the using the words "rape" and "loot"..takes me back to my viking spirit

peace

[dee man]

"Develop an attractive culture and positive football environment for young men to enjoy. Make it a club that blokes will want to join because of the existing framework and not because of money or mates"

sounds beautiful in utopia but at the coalface of result driven presidents supporters and the like..they dont have the patience..

"No-one is saying clubs cant recruit zedman, but there ought to be something limiting the number and quality of players able to join a club within a certain time frame. Otherwise it causes what we are seeing now - uneven competitions and clubs either dying off or struggling. I know there is a system in place but it clearly isn't working"

the APPS should/could/would fix that..we think..

"Your language gives your real thoughts away zedman. Why do you keep using pejorative terms like "rape" and "loot". It's this raping and looting that I am arguing against!"

i like the using the words "rape" and "loot"..takes me back to my viking spirit

peace

zedman,i normally agree with you but unfortunately i cant agree with the definition of the recruitment of players from happy valley and kangaroo island.i was apart of the club at the time and the one thing that has been left out of your comments and morells for that matter is the amount of money the players were offered and got.
the sum was zero.no sign on fees,no payments and no drink cards.the reason they came on board from the valley that year was the fact work commitments did not allow three of them to train and play every week and the other two were family reasons.out of them 5 only one played the whole season and even then only every second week.two transfered back and the others went fishing and work.as for ki,well the fact that some maybe able to pay the fees to travel every week might give them reason to but not all.we got 6 players from ki with only three of them playing regulary.i believe when i left that left them with none or maybe 1.as with the valley,no payments.alot different than what is happening now.apart from that i actually agree with parts of both sides of the argument

[Freo HeaveHo]

hahahhaha Zedman that is probably the funniest comment i have ever read on this forum . What would possess someone to pay there own way and travel for hours from Kangaroo Island to play div 6 football . I think of the 6 -8 guys that played there a handful lived within two or three streets of the club. And that was the draw card for anyone else relocating to the mainland to go to the lions . Probably a fair call regarding the Valley tho

[zedman]

no worries deeman..its just opinions..the reason i didnt mention money was because i didnt think it was relevant as we were discussing the actual movement of the players..perhaps not the why..i knew of a valleys connection previously through a few ppl i know at parks and morell himself actually used them as an example so i thought it was reasonable to use them as well

im glad you got a laugh freo

buts its actually no different than tavelling 2 hours..or 3-4 in some cases when players go to the far country..admittedly that would be for coin and deeman has verified no coin was involved but i also believe that the group were very close and its not above the realm of possibility that they WOULD come over on the ferry to play each work..if the bond is there..and they were winning games

[Perfect Drug]

Put it this way, we had representatives of the KI clubs the boys originally were from for a function at the club. What do you reckon the chances of having Fitzroy people at a Glenunga function this year? There is a difference between poaching and recruiting.

Fitzroy captain Matthew Nelson was at a Glenunga function this year. Myself, Bourke and a few others were at a couple of Fitzroy functions this year. I see no reason why that would not be the case next year. They are still my friends and I am theirs (well the ones that didn't dislike me already!) Its not personal.

[morell]

i believe when i left that left them with none or maybe 1

Young Lukas Newton is still going around and making a fool of himself. Nah, Doof played some good football for us last year. Wouldn't be surprised to see a couple of them drift back over time either.

Put it this way, we had representatives of the KI clubs the boys originally were from for a function at the club. What do you reckon the chances of having Fitzroy people at a Glenunga function this year? There is a difference between poaching and recruiting.

Fitzroy captain Matthew Nelson was at a Glenunga function this year. Myself, Bourke and a few others were at a couple of Fitzroy functions this year. I see no reason why that would not be the case next year. They are still my friends and I am theirs (well the ones that didn't dislike me already!) Its not personal.

I did actually mean the year coming up, sorry.

I am assuming that those events were more because there were good mates at both clubs and went along to socialise. That is a little bit different to the scenario I was trying to describe as we actually invited official representatives of the KI football clubs i.e. committee members to a function.

Having said that I guess it is evidence of the class and fortitude of the people involved in the Fitzroy football club as well...

[Phantom Gossiper]

BOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRING!!!!! ....

... sick of reading about bloody glenunga!! In case people haven't realised there are other sides in this div - sides who will be setting themselves the same sort of goals and building towards finals