Unions

[Drop Bear]

I have been a member of a union practically my whole work life. Depending on the industry you are in I'd encourage people to join, I've been involved with 4 instances directly and indirectly where the union has been of benefit. It's not only limited to workplace disputes, if you get injured at work or injured to and from work they can help too, a bloke I worked with had a motorcycle accident on the way to work and was off for a year and the union payed his wage.

Isn't that what WorkCover is for?

[Dirko]

I was in the ASU for 15 years, and as they covered the Airline award, in the earlier days they were a much needed factor. Toward the middle of the 2000's the relevance of the Union had diminished although a majority of full time staff were still members. The non Union members got the exact same pay conditions as the Union members, but if push came to shove re conditions etc, they wouldn't have the back up of the Union....

We also had TWU on site as well. Some of those blokes were/are morons.

My current Casual role, I'm not in one and don't think I ever will be again.

[LMA]

I have been a member of a union practically my whole work life. Depending on the industry you are in I'd encourage people to join, I've been involved with 4 instances directly and indirectly where the union has been of benefit. It's not only limited to workplace disputes, if you get injured at work or injured to and from work they can help too, a bloke I worked with had a motorcycle accident on the way to work and was off for a year and the union payed his wage.

Isn't that what WorkCover is for?

Not to and from work

[Mythical Creature]

I have been a member of a union practically my whole work life. Depending on the industry you are in I'd encourage people to join, I've been involved with 4 instances directly and indirectly where the union has been of benefit. It's not only limited to workplace disputes, if you get injured at work or injured to and from work they can help too, a bloke I worked with had a motorcycle accident on the way to work and was off for a year and the union payed his wage.

Isn't that what WorkCover is for?

Work cover is shit. I wouldn't be relying on that for your protection. Am a firm beleiver that anyone who has a job should get at least Income Protection as a number one priority. The biggest earning asset that we all have is ourselves.

[fish]

I am paid up and proud!

[Sturtman]

I am paid up and proud!

I am a memebr of the United Firefighters Union as are 99% of SAMFS Firies. Why should the less than 1% of employees who choose not to pay union fees, benefit from the pay and conditions that our union negotiates?? The union should send them an invoice for their time representing them. And good luck sittiing down with the boss (Kevin Foley) and negotiating for yourself.
I have also been a member of the CFMEU which i believe still think its 1980, but they need to be around to stop employers exploiting workers. For example a gyprocking company that is made up almost entirely of Phillipeno workers, who cant speak english and have no hope of negotiating pay and conditions for themselves. And if one company can screw their workers pay then it can lower wages for companies who do similar work as they cannot compete with the prices that the first company can build for

[Strawb]

As I said before I am a member of the RTBU, Rail Tram and Bus Union and I feel they do a great job of looking after their members in pay conditions, working conditions and rights. If we have a problem we can talk to them and they will help us. I have never had a problem being a member of a union because they are there for their members.

[White Line Fever]

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[Hondo]

In my experience the Unions work very hard to justify the $500 fee and one of their tactics is to make workers feel the Union is the only source of help or expertise. Which they aren't. They also promote the idea that the worker will be worse off if not for the Union's help which again is not always the case.

I also don't like the implication Unions promote that the employer is the enemy and the union is your friend. In my experience the Union members carry this perception almost like a chip on their shoulder compared to the non union workers who have the better relationship with the employer. Perhaps it's just that I have seen some extreme examples.

[Psyber]

I have been a member of a union practically my whole work life. Depending on the industry you are in I'd encourage people to join, I've been involved with 4 instances directly and indirectly where the union has been of benefit. It's not only limited to workplace disputes, if you get injured at work or injured to and from work they can help too, a bloke I worked with had a motorcycle accident on the way to work and was off for a year and the union payed his wage.

Isn't that what WorkCover is for?

Having been involved as a doctor in WorkCover cases in both SA and Victoria, and done assessments and reports, and occasionally given evidence in court, I have been forced towards the conclusion that WorkCover in both states is fundamentally about cost containment. In that, it resembles the public health system where all the money goes to the major conditions that may attract media attention if neglected, and more subtly life prolonging and quality of life issues are heavily economised on.

I've also seen situations where unions have left workers high and dry in negotiations with WorkCover where there is another benefit to the union, or one of the union's friends in parliament.
In Adelaide in the late 1980s and early 1990s, I referred about 6 different patients to one private law firm after their union and their union's solicitors had been urging them to take a cheap settlement.
In each case the new lawyer got them something like triple what they had been being urged to accept by their union and its lawyers.
[There were stories about he traps that WorkCover were paying "bonuses" to those unions and their lawyers for assisting "early settlements". It looked like it was probably true to me.]

[wycbloods]

Would you strike if told by your union?

Just to be clear WLF no union official can tell you to go on strike. It is a very exhaustive process, that goes through FWA and is run by the AEC, that the members of the Union decide what they want to do.

[wycbloods]

I may be over simplifying the whole issue and as someone who has never been a Union member I best qualify my position.

If the stop work meeting Ark Tribe attended was not an official stop work meeting ( for what ever reason ) then I believe the authorities have the right to ask why that was the case.

If in turn Ark and his fellow Unionists have nothing to hide, why not just answer the questions?

Sure, if the powers that be wanted to know what went on at the meeting they should have had someone attend but if it was not properly sanctioned, how could they?

All in all I dont think the bloke should be given jail time but I cant see what he has to hide.

My understanding of Ark's scenario, and i don't profess to know it all , is that he had a meeting, in their break, with workers who signed a petition on a napkin about a health and safety issue on site at flinders uni and the workers took this to the boss. The company agreed that they were legitimate safety concerns and they were addressed and both parties went on about doing what they were paid to do.

The ABCC then investigated the situation and with the coercive powers they have, which are greater than ASIO have, and questioned Ark about what happend at the meeting and who was involved. Ark made a decision he wasn't going to be someone who dobbed on his work mates and refused to answer their questions and this is the reason his case went to trial.

Why should a construction worker be treated differently to any other worker in this country?

[mighty_tiger_79]

interesting there was a private invitation only Union meeting at my work site recently

Not all Union members were notified about this meeting which had a union organiser present

and at the meeting was a staunch old man who is anti union and not even a member.

He tells them all that they will walk off the job in 2 weeks if a particular person isnt removed who was the former Site Delegate for the union

Needless to say those 2 weeks ended about 10 days ago and they are all still there working and no sign of leaving. Why, because they all need there jobs and they all need money. The manager heard about there plan and was secretly hoping they would go on strike cos he would move them on!!

[Sturtman]

Would you strike if told by your union?

Would they also sacrifice pay while you did?

Would you want a loud-mouth illiterate unionist represent you and have a say with your life & career?

Do you notice people not in the union say they personally don't want to but whatever the individual wants to do is up to them.
But unionists say you should join, we are all in it etc etc trying to peer pressure and use a mob rule mentality.

I dislike the way they approach it and i'm yet to meet a union delegate that can hold a proper conversation without becoming argumentative or aggressive.

My experiences are purely based on construction industry and are therefore extremer than other industries.

Sturtman why should a Phillipino who can't speak english earn the same coin as an english speaking gyppy?
You need to communicate in construction and by creating equals it only bring the 'lesser' workers up to the level guys have been working hard for years.Although they may be a good worker any employer would rather english speaking employees unless they only want pure labour so no they shouldn't get paid as much as others.

The union doesn't represent the individual and usually have alterior motives for their actions.

There are other organisations that don't charge $500 a year to represent the employees WorkCover, Workplace services etc and sometimes you just need to speak to your employer instead of going direct to the union.

I was getting at the fact that it is hard for businesses to compete when tendering jobs against a company paying pretty much half the wages of another company.

[White Line Fever]

Would you strike if told by your union?

Would they also sacrifice pay while you did?

Would you want a loud-mouth illiterate unionist represent you and have a say with your life & career?

Do you notice people not in the union say they personally don't want to but whatever the individual wants to do is up to them.
But unionists say you should join, we are all in it etc etc trying to peer pressure and use a mob rule mentality.

I dislike the way they approach it and i'm yet to meet a union delegate that can hold a proper conversation without becoming argumentative or aggressive.

My experiences are purely based on construction industry and are therefore extremer than other industries.

Sturtman why should a Phillipino who can't speak english earn the same coin as an english speaking gyppy?
You need to communicate in construction and by creating equals it only bring the 'lesser' workers up to the level guys have been working hard for years.Although they may be a good worker any employer would rather english speaking employees unless they only want pure labour so no they shouldn't get paid as much as others.

The union doesn't represent the individual and usually have alterior motives for their actions.

There are other organisations that don't charge $500 a year to represent the employees WorkCover, Workplace services etc and sometimes you just need to speak to your employer instead of going direct to the union.

I was getting at the fact that it is hard for businesses to compete when tendering jobs against a company paying pretty much half the wages of another company.

True.

But you get what you pay for.
There are plenty of smart contractors out there who refuse to use the cheap subbies as they do not perform and it ends up costing more.

That is what employees miss.
For every dollar more they want it risks the company not winning work.

Then when they get laid off they go to the union but it was the union that forced up the costs in the beginning.

[Brucetiki]

In my experience the Unions work very hard to justify the $500 fee and one of their tactics is to make workers feel the Union is the only source of help or expertise. Which they aren't. They also promote the idea that the worker will be worse off if not for the Union's help which again is not always the case.

At my second job a couple of years ago we have a LHMU rep bug us in the staff room once preaching that our pay and conditions don't 'magically fall out of the sky'. I did the polite 'no thanks' but was secretly PMSL!

[wycbloods]

ABS Data suggests that Union members get paid approx 17% more than non union members.

Pretty clear indication that collective bargaining is the best way to even out the imbalance in power between the employer and employees.

[mighty_tiger_79]

ABS Data suggests that Union members get paid approx 17% more than non union members.

Pretty clear indication that collective bargaining is the best way to even out the imbalance in power between the employer and employees.

well that would be good if it was across the board but not all industries are in that situation

[White Line Fever]

ABS Data suggests that Union members get paid approx 17% more than non union members.

Pretty clear indication that collective bargaining is the best way to even out the imbalance in power between the employer and employees.

Imbalance between boss and worker?

That imbalance is there for a reason.
You work for them.

[wycbloods]

ABS Data suggests that Union members get paid approx 17% more than non union members.

Pretty clear indication that collective bargaining is the best way to even out the imbalance in power between the employer and employees.

well that would be good if it was across the board but not all industries are in that situation

No doubt MT79 the gap is larger in some industries and smaller in others but 17% is a pretty significant difference on average.