National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

[PhilH]

Re Scheduling & Byes .... how would this work

2011 current structure

- start week after AFL

- 24 week regular season (23 rounds & state game)

- each team 20 games, 4 weeks off (3 byes + 1 state game)



2011 proposed

- start SANFL Season week before AFL only with 4 Foxtel Cup teams only
(Norwood v Glenelg Fri Night, Central v Eagles Sat)

- rest of league starts 1 week later (same as AFL)

- lose state game (alas)

- have 2 split rounds
in July (Foxtel Cup Semi Finals)
& August (Foxtel Cup Grand Final)

- For Foxtel Cup teams
- 26 week season, 20 SANFL games, max 4 FC games,
- Grand Finalists get 2 byes
- Semi Finalists get 3 byes
- Quarter Finalists get 4 byes
- First Round Losers get 5 byes (same as non FC teams)

- For 5 non Foxtel cup teams
- 25 week season, 20 SANFL games, 5 weeks off
- up from 4 for non state players

So at worst the Foxtel Cup teams lose max 1 bye
And your average non Foxtel Cup player has 1 extra week off


AND

We have good games to promote the start of the SANFL in the AFL Free weekend window between
the NAB Cup / AFL Rd 1.

AND

We get to see how this national competition could work.

[Hazydog]

You raise some valid points WHUFC (which is more than the hammers are doing at the minute )

If history is anything to go by - I dont think it will be a matter of Centrals, or any other club for that matter saying that they aren't interested, more so an all out or all in type of stance from the League itself.

As mentioned previously though - if the parties involved were seriously committed to the long term future of this concept - I think it would be small minded of the League not to grasp the opportunity and make it work, even if that meant reducing the SANFL minor round season or whatever it took, to take state league footy to a new level.

In fact there you are! Reduce the minor round by 4 games so that each club playes the other twice and there are all your problems fixed. Would be a fairer minor round format to boot!

This is the sort of attitude I'd like to see the SANFL embrace.

[Hazydog]

Great post Phil - there is no doubt that if the SANFL want this to happen they can make it happen.

[Dutchy]

That would be the way to go, similar to what A-League clubs do in the Asian Champions league,

In all seriousness Dutchy, i dont think Kris Grant is that bothered about being 'seen' on the national stage, he has been quoted many times especially in the local messenger that the CDFC is in the business of winning the CDFC SANFL premierships when asked about these type games, tournament, not enough CDFC players being drafted etc etc.

Kris Grant has also been a massive fan of the bye in the SANFL giving interstate players the oppurtunity to return home for a week as well as local players a chance to get back to their home clubs.

Apart from financial gain there isnt really alot of incentive for Central vs Burnie before a Port Adelaide vs Richmond game at AAMI Stadium when the players could have the bye.

So who would make the decision Kris Grant or your board?

[PhilH]

Or as an alternative

As a reward give the major league premiers
- Central
- North Ballarat
- Swan Districts
all a first round bye in the Foxtel Cup (1st game is the quarter finals)

Drop out the 4th teams in the SANFL, WAFL, VFL
(sorry Box Hill, Glenelg & East Fremantle) so its a 13 team competition ( 12 games)

That leaves all states still represented
and the teams most likely to be in the final only playing 3 games.

[gillies8]

Central are not interested in this competition at all.
If this gets off the ground it will be a farce as I believe some clubs will have no desire to play potentially another four games in a season and put the main prize the SANFL premiership at risk.

I would love to see the dogs play interstate teams but I know that Central will see it as a distraction from what they truely want.

May be a good opportunity for some other SANFL teams to get their hands on some silverware.

[whufc]

Central are not interested in this competition at all.
If this gets off the ground it will be a farce as I believe some clubs will have no desire to play potentially another four games in a season and put the main prize the SANFL premiership at risk.

I would love to see the dogs play interstate teams but I know that Central will see it as a distraction from what they truely want.
May be a good opportunity for some other SANFL teams to get their hands on some silverware.

Thats my exact position on this, i would love to watch the Dogs take on Claremont in WA but from the clubs point of view there is not a great enough incentive for Kris Grant, the board and all involved to take this to serious.

At the end of the day all they would be playing for is to be recognised as the 17th best team in AUS.

On West Ham we are on equal points with Liverpool so we cant be going to bad can we...........
Oh wait a sec

[Hazydog]

Interesting debate isn't it. Some are saying it wont work based on the structure of the SANFL season as it is. Others are happy to tinker with that structure to make it work.

I wonder if the same type of discussions are happening between the clubs?

[mighty_tiger_79]

i like the concept and some of the proposals philh has posted.
Games underlights at glenelg, norwood or adelaide oval?

Could we have a double header, an sanfl game and then the national comp

[whufc]

i like the concept and some of the proposals philh has posted.
Games underlights at glenelg, norwood or adelaide oval?
Could we have a double header, an sanfl game and then the national comp

I think that would definatly be the preffered option, playing games at suburban grounds.

But i can understand why foxtel would be playing them at an AFL venue as they would be covering the night match at the ground as well so would save a fair bit on costs you would imagine.

[Hazydog]

Supposing this concept falls in a heap and doesn't get off the ground, I wonder if Foxtel, (who seem to be heartened by ABC ratings for state league telecasts & have a gap to fill), will make a play to gain the rights for either the VFL, WAFL, or SANFL?

[Brucetiki]

Supposing this concept falls in a heap and doesn't get off the ground, I wonder if Foxtel, (who seem to be heartened by ABC ratings for state league telecasts & have a gap to fill), will make a play to gain the rights for either the VFL, WAFL, or SANFL?

Maybe they could do all 3. Have a live match on Friday night before their AFL replay. Then have a Saturday arvo game from 4:30-7:00 (either live or delayed). Then have a delayed telecast of a match on Sunday night after their AFL commitments.

Could alternate who gets what so the VFL/SANFL/WAFL get equal amount of games in each slot.

[whufc]

Slightly out there idea....................................

Could the SANFL reduce the amount of games to 16 a season plus finals. Every team plays every team once at home and once away, the SANFL clubs could then have no complaints playing 4 games in another competition throughout the season. They could have 4 rest weeks throughout the season which would be when this comp would be played.

Just a thought anyway.

[topsywaldron]

Could the SANFL reduce the amount of games to 16 a season plus finals.

No thanks.

[whufc]

Could the SANFL reduce the amount of games to 16 a season plus finals.

No thanks.

i tend to agree but i would stop the irregularities in the SANFL draw. No one would be able to complain they got a better draw than any other side.

[PhilH]

The SANFL schedule doesnt really have irregularities if you look at it over a long term.

Basically over a 2 year period each club plays each other 5 times, 3 one year, 2 the other.

It has been on this rotation for at least 11 years probably more.

Everything else is just luck (ie which team is up or down which year).

[whufc]

The SANFL schedule doesnt really have irregularities if you look at it over a long term.

Basically over a 2 year period each club plays each other 5 times, 3 one year, 2 the other.

It has been on this rotation for at least 11 years probably more.

Everything else is just luck (ie which team is up or down which year).

yeah but getting to play one team 3 times can be a massive advantage over playing a club twice.

Hyperthetically using this years ladder
2010- Sturt play South 3 times win all three play finals
- West only play South 2 times win both miss finals by one game.

2011- South finish minor premiers
- West have to play them 3 times
- Sturt only twice

As you said the draw is just LUCK as to which year you catch certain teams having to play them 2 or 3 times.

Every year the draw should be fair for every team not over a two year draw because it doesnt always end up even,

Look at Norwood for example if you had them 3 times in 2009 and only 2 times in 2010 you got the better of the draw same as having Sturt 2 times in 2009 and 3 times in 2010.

It should be even every year, personally i think it is a massive issue in the SANFL and AFL that the competition is NOT EQUAL even before a ball has been bounced.

[ca]

Supposing this concept falls in a heap and doesn't get off the ground, I wonder if Foxtel, (who seem to be heartened by ABC ratings for state league telecasts & have a gap to fill), will make a play to gain the rights for either the VFL, WAFL, or SANFL?

Maybe they could do all 3. Have a live match on Friday night before their AFL replay. Then have a Saturday arvo game from 4:30-7:00 (either live or delayed). Then have a delayed telecast of a match on Sunday night after their AFL commitments.

Could alternate who gets what so the VFL/SANFL/WAFL get equal amount of games in each slot.

I would have thought this would be a cheaper option with similar following.

[rd]

I've been waiting for years for the State leagues to have some sort of National Club Competition - but I am worried it would considered to be a nuisance for the clubs involved if it took away the much-needed byes for the teams during the regular season. Looking at just 8 teams involved in 2011 - should the opening round (e.g. Morningside v Centrals; Clarence v Swan Districts; Norwood v Nth Ballarat; Claremeont v Nthn Bullants) be played in early March - then the semi finals (perhaps Centrals v Claremont & Swan Districts v Nth Ballarat) played on the 3rd weekend of March (will that still be a AFL free weekend?) - so then the final (perhaps Centrals v Swan Districts) is then played on the appropriate bye in April. Those 2 teams will would have lost only one bye during their regular league competition & the April bye is a lot less valuable than an August bye.

[brent]

Foxtel and the AFL need to put up some big $$ for first, second and third place. the sort of dollars that could make a significant difference to a teams balance sheet and hence be worth a crack.

as I understand foxtel are doing this to plug a gap in their saturday tv schedules, so there is a financial return for them... and in an indirect way for the afl through potentially improved tv rights. the question is what will be given back to the state comp teams and for that matter the state leagues? whats in it for them? surely they don't think teams will enter a competition just for the glory of a trophy that has zero history or relevance?

money talks...