SANFL v VFL: Which is better?

[redandblack]

SANFL vs. VFL – Which is better? - Contributed by heater31

Faced with a Saturday in Melbourne alone with no AFL footy to speak of what does a serious football fan do? Simple, he finds a game of Footy to watch and to really top it off a dose of nostalgia with a visit to the spiritual home of the Fitzroy Lions, The Brunswick St oval.

After taking a punt and getting on a tram that said via Brunswick St I slowly crawled my way towards my first destination the home of the Fitzroy Football Club from its inception until 1966. This visit was rather brief but still managed to squeeze in witnessing a quarter of football with the current day incarnation of the lions having home game in the Victorian amateur league with one would assume was the club’s reserves grade giving a Saint Kilda clad team a football lesson. With a visit to Brunswick St now crossed off the bucket list it was now onto the next destination and with a quick consult of my trusty map of the city’s public transport system it was much simpler than I thought to get from my current locale to the next, Home of Collingwood Victoria Park and normally a vicious place to visit.

Disembarking from a train at the Victoria Park Railway Station I soon found myself making my way to a place that possibly the most famous Football club in the country (due to their current day president) called home from 1892 until 1999. Today’s feature was the AFL club’s reserves team taking on Essendon’s affiliate Bendigo Bombers in a ANZAC day eve fixture in the VFL and according a majority of Victorian’s the best Football League outside of the AFL. Approaching the gates it soon became evident that the facilities were in need of some tender loving care. The old style AFL logo was still prominent and the big turnstile gates were hanging on for another year of operation. Upon approaching the ticket box the first similarity can be drawn between the two second tier leagues. There is no difference in price for entry to both leagues for non member adults, the AFL club’s memberships are honoured for the home side and seeing that the AFL blockbuster 24 hours later was a sell out to the general public a steady stream of supporters were filing their way into the ground to get a weekend footy fix. After making my way inside the ground and settling into a spot on the terraces of the now Roof less R.T Rush stand along the wing of this revered surface just after the first bounce. A noticeable difference upon arrival is the distinct lack of a VFL Record seller anywhere in the vicinity of the ground although plenty of spectators had a copy. Here in the SANFL if you don’t come across a budget seller you have simply arrived far too late in the game to get one.

On the ground both sides were trying to gain the upper hand in the match and a tight battle was witnessed during the first term. Collingwood taking a small eleven point lead into the first break and again the similarities between the SANFL and VFL were present. During the breaks in play spectators converge on the playing surface for either what SANFL fans refer to a ‘kick and catch’ or to the team huddle to listen to the coaches message. It is here there is one major difference that the centre square is not ‘for players and officials only’ the Council worker orange clad umpires are flanked by security guards and the two competing teams huddle in front of their respective benches much like a country football team. Here spectators are able to gain close access to these inspiring talks but still maintaining a respectable distance between the players perhaps West Lakes could learn from this. In the Bendigo huddle the Essendon senior coaching staff were present to lend a hand to the Bendigo coach Shannon Grant. It is here on the way back to my position on the outer wing I observed catering that would rival Adelaide’s own Amateur Football League. The supply of beer had run dry and the lines for the over-priced food were growing longer by the minute. It was sometime before I could return to my position at some point during the second term. Bendigo began to gain the upper hand subdue a very pro Magpie contingent in the Sherrin stand behind the goals and in the mean time reduce the gap to just 2 points at the main break kicking 4.6 to 3.1. Once again after the players disappear down the race to the change rooms under the Sherrin Stand spectators converge for a kick. In this league there is no visible promotion for kids to get into footy at all. At half time the entire surface is used as a kick and catch venue despite a large number of children present. The AFL Auskick program has well and truly brainwashed the Victorian parents/kids pushing them to the more expensive league.

During the half time break I was able to sit back and take in the surroundings and the seed was set for this piece. Not much has changed at all since 1999 when Collingwood played their last home game at the venue. Obviously things rapidly deteriorated from 2004 onwards when the magpies left for good. The R.T Rush stand had lost its roof recently as the temporary fencing was still in place for a portion due to construction of appropriate safety barriers. The other stands had fared better than the Rush stand. The Sherrin stand housed majority of the spectators as did the Ryder stand on the wing and the standing section of the Bob Rose stand (Social Club) was open. These structures looked to be in reasonable condition and look to live out the rest of their useful lives with the smaller crowds of the VFL. The old scoreboard was in some serious need of repairs. The black paint was fading, vandals had smashed most of the panels and a few numbers were haphazardly displayed. As a result there was no visible scoreboard for all patrons although a small one was present for the benefit of the spectators on the old social club side. Seeing as Collingwood have only began playing home games at the venue for the current season I cannot criticise too much but if the gossip around the ground is to be believed from the weekend as a possible VFL finals venue a more adequate scoreboard must be sourced.

Back to the footy and Bendigo dominated the third term beginning to build a nice lead and with inclement weather looming over the ground looked to have it won. The skills were AFL like and this was no surprise given the number of AFL listed players on the ground. The only drawback here was the tactics employed in the AFL were rampant. Plenty of handballs and kicks backwards to the loose man were the order of the day. By three quarter time the Bombers had taken the lead by 22 points. Former Woodville-West Torrens player Hayden Skipworth had plenty of the football and former AFL Magpie Jason Cloke in his second stint with Bendigo was causing havoc for the Magpies defence. Sensing a win the Bombers huddle was overflowing with supporters looking to get a glimpse of the players and this kept the Bendigo officials on their toes ensuring no one was interfering with the players.

In the last term Collingwood threw the kitchen sink at the Bombers to avoid defeat on their own turf but were unable to penetrate the defence on a regular basis. AFL listed players Stewart Crameri (rookie 2010) and former West Adelaide player Tyson Slattery were influential during the last term. It was with these two Bendigo were able to rebound from defence setting up plenty of ball. In the end the Bombers were able to resist the attacks of the Magpies despite the efforts of Cameron Wood who on his way back to the AFL from injury put in a solid performance. Despite plenty of AFL experience in the Collingwood side (John Anthony, Shane O’Bree and Tyson Goldsack to name a few) Bendigo were able to put in a solid four quarter effort and walk away with a 30 point win and light drizzle falling over the ground right on full time. The majority of the 3000 odd crowd would file out of Victoria Park to the railway station disappointed hoping this was not an omen for the following day and this fickle Melbourne weather would hold off until we got home.

In summary there are some differences between the two leagues primarily being the skill level of professionals being the major one and the lack of club culture but if I had to chose which one I would have to say it’s the SANFL for me not just because I’m South Australian but just for the overall experience of attending the footy on a Saturday afternoon with the strong club feel around the ground and kids providing the halftime entertainment. Its how the footy should be.

[JK]

Thanks for that guys, yet another top read.

[DOC]

Good stuff.

If you read Ron Fullers comments (I posted them on here about three weeks ago) it mirrors many of heaters comments re the passion and history.

[Pottsy]

DOC, are you in love with Ron Fuller?

[Dirko]

The AFL Auskick program has well and truly brainwashed the Victorian parents/kids pushing them to the more expensive league.

I'd like to know how Auskick is set up in Victoria. Having a bit to do with it here, it'd be interesting to see what sort of funding support etc the program receives over there.

Good article too Heather. Whilst you where over that side of town you should've gone and had a look at Princes Park.

*edited to thank Heater man not R & B

[redandblack]

I posted the article for heater31.

The credit is all his.

[bloods08]

Great article Heater.

I too was at that game after going over to see the debacle the previous evening.

Thoroughly enjoyed the game (especially with collingwood losing), although it was alot more like watching an AFL game than our great game (SANFL).

Skipworth absolutely dominated for Bendigo and was easily best on ground imo.

[heater31]

The AFL Auskick program has well and truly brainwashed the Victorian parents/kids pushing them to the more expensive league.

I'd like to know how Auskick is set up in Victoria. Having a bit to do with it here, it'd be interesting to see what sort of funding support etc the program receives over there.

Good article too Heather. Whilst you where over that side of town you should've gone and had a look at Princes Park.

*edited to thank Heater man not R & B

I know, I wanted to but ran out of time. I spent far too much time at the MCG on the Friday. Maybe next time.

[Benchwarmer]

Having seen enough of both leagues to form an informed opinion, I would say that the SANFL is ahead of the VFL.

The standard of play is better in the SANFL and in terms of marketing, SA is streets ahead.

The VFL's Record this year is a poor effort and an example of how second-tier football is being disrespected over the border. 16 pages for $2 and you get 'the Kremlin' telling you what they want you to know, team lists for one match only, ladders, club notes and a page of 'celebrity' tipsters ... no stories and little interest. Most country and metro league put out something better than the crap they dish up.

SANFL (since 1877) > WAFL (since 1885) > VFL (since 1996)

[heater31]

Having seen enough of both leagues to form an informed opinion, I would say that the SANFL is ahead of the VFL.

The standard of play is better in the SANFL and in terms of marketing, SA is streets ahead.

The VFL's Record this year is a poor effort and an example of how second-tier football is being disrespected over the border. 16 pages for $2 and you get 'the Kremlin' telling you what they want you to know, team lists for one match only, ladders, club notes and a page of 'celebrity' tipsters ... no stories and little interest. Most country and metro league put out something better than the crap they dish up.

SANFL (since 1877) > WAFL (since 1885) > VFL (since 1996)

I'm glad I didn't get a copy then. would have been a waste of 2 bucks. Now I know why I saw a Collingwood supporter throw his in the bin on the way out. Its only good for starting fires after the game

[Mr66]

SANFL (since 1877) > WAFL (since 1885) > VFL (since 1996)

What?!

It's been going since 1877.
It only changed it's name in 1996, just like the SANFL has done a couple of times since 1877.
Geez, talk about selective memory

But I will definitely agree about the superiority of the SANFL.
I always have a laugh when a VFL official speaks to the media and talks about being 'the best league outside the AFL'
Unfortunately we get a lot (too much?) of this rubbish in Melb.

[whufc]

Will have my own VFL experience next week going to watch Box Hill vs Collingwood at Victoria Park.

Going to watch Marco Bello in action.

[heater31]

Will have my own VFL experience next week going to watch Box Hill vs Collingwood at Victoria Park.

Going to watch Marco Bello in action.

would be good to get your thoughts as well whufc.

just get on any train heading to Epping or Hurstbridge from Southern Cross/Flinders St and they will drop you off within a drop kick of the gate

[Sam_goUUUdogs]

Looking forward to Collingwood vs Box Hill this weekend, and only my 2nd VFL game.
I posted this after I attended a game last season.



This was my first live VFL experience, excluding state games, and i was very impressed and really enjoyed the day.

One of the really unique things you can do at Box Hill is go into the Social club at the back of the grandstand where the 3WBC commentators are based and watch the game with commentary, people are still able to talk and make abit of noise within reason, but there is no security, or formal rules, it just seems to be something that is done in good faith, im not sure if this is just something Box Hill do or if its a VFL wide thing, but it really is a great way to watch the footy live, and an even better way to get out of the cold wind for awhile
And yes, there is a bar in there

Box Hill is currently putting the finishing touches on their new Southern Pavilion, which has been built on top of the Box Hill rooms, it will look rather impressive once complete, it will include 2 function rooms with views of the oval, administration offices, plus full social and spectator amenities, this should improve the facilities at the oval for the average spectator, as their isn't to much undercover seating available at the moment, the current social club would hold no more than probably 75 people at any one time, and the grandstand at the oval seats about 200 max, and it seems like it is reserved for players families, injured players etc, and not really for the public.
There is plenty of park benches around the oval, and quite a few of them are on the terraces under a large shade cloth structure, but unfortunately that doesn't do to much once the rain starts coming down.

One of the biggest differences i found between the SANFL and the VFL is the people who attend games, most people at SANFL games appear to support a club, whereas at the VFL it seems a large percentage of the people in attendance simply follow the club due to an AFL connection, except for the bloke who runs the BBQ & Bar at Box Hill, he is definitely a genuine supporter
The crowd for the match was probably around the 1000 mark.

The Prices at the VFL are all pretty similar to the SANFL, $10 entry, $3 for a footy record (budget), but the drinks were abit cheaper than the SANFL, full strength beers were $4, and a bottle of water costs $2.

The standard of the football on display in my opinion is not quite up to the standard of the SANFL, its probably not really fair to make a judgment having only been to 1 game, but using yesterdays game as a template, i think the VFL seems to just slightly trail the SANFL in a few key on field area's, resulting in an overall noticeable difference in the quality of football, but in fairness to the VFL, the conditions were not great yesterday, and I have seen plenty of SANFL games that were far from the standard of the match yesterday.

Having said the above regarding the quality of football, it takes nothing away from the level of entertainment at the VFL, yesterdays match was a cracker, and without doubt one of the best games of footy i have seen all season.

[whufc]

ok went to collingwood vs box hill at victoria park yesterday. box hill won very comfortably.

had a great day and some thoughts.

facilities were adequate, there was plenty of seats standing area and coverage from rain. the toilets were clean and had lights. the beer was a dollar cheaper and was cold. thats all we needed.

the game was a decent standard had moments of brilliance and moment of amatuerish skills. played to the AFL interpretations of the rules and AFL style tactics made the pace very fast.

at the breaks you could get very close to the players as they just rope an area off directly around the huddle.

the main difference and biggest factor in me preffering SANFL was the atmosphere.
the crowd was between 1000-1500. mainly collingwood supporters who were there more interested in individual performances rather than the scoreboard. box hill seemed a tad more passionate but had less numbers.

best way to describe atmosphere was like in the last quarter of the SANFL games.
honestly i probably couldnt go the VFL every week due to the lack of passion and the feeling of a lack of competitiveness with it being more about individuals

[Benchwarmer]

What?!

It's been going since 1877.
It only changed it's name in 1996, just like the SANFL has done a couple of times since 1877.
Geez, talk about selective memory

But I will definitely agree about the superiority of the SANFL.
I always have a laugh when a VFL official speaks to the media and talks about being 'the best league outside the AFL'
Unfortunately we get a lot (too much?) of this rubbish in Melb.

The dying VFA was bundled up with the AFL Reserves and the amalgam became the VFL and signified the end the line for the VFL/AFL's oldest rival in Victoria. The VFA didn't have a name change, it had a culture change as the VSFL took over the running of the Association and the re-named competition has become little more than a Reserves comp with the strongest remnants of the VFA since - unfortunately most of them are little more than a 2nd XVIII for an AFL side and have lost their true roots to their local community.

Marc Fiddian the pre-eminent VFA historian wrote the following the following in his book which covered the full history of the VFA in the historical timeline:

1996: For the first time ... there was no VFA. Clubs still in existence formed a new body named the Victorian Football League, which was virtually an AFL second 18. North Ballarat and Traralgon were admitted. VFA House was sold for $1 million.

There is also reference in the Coburg chapter to the Lions surviving a lean period in the 1990s and taking part "in the formation of the new VFL".

As a point of note Coburg and Sandy both joined the VFA in the 1920s, not the VFL as their media guide will tell you ... I never remember them playing in the VFL anytime before the 1990 name change to the AFL.

[Benchwarmer]

whufc

I agree with the description of the fans. SANFL fans are the most vocal and passionate about their club as well as having the best attendance. WAFL fans are no less vocal or passionate but they do have less people there which does hurt the atmosphere - East Freo and Peel have issues in drawing a crowd, sometimes 1500 is a big crowd for them. The VFL crowd is highly AFL-club based and a bit devoid of the local community touch and as you said more focused on the name players.

I remember the VFA well and compared well with the SANFL in terms of atmosphere (and because Sunday at the VFA was the best way to have a drink, watch footy and avoid the chores). When the VFA ended, I, like many supporters of a VFA club, became a supporter of an AFL club's Reserves side and when Sandringham became the Melbourne Reserves, that was it and I just could not bring myself to watch Sandy as a seconds side and I still haven't seen them play since ... especially now that they are bloody St Kilda's seconds.

I remember the big names of the 70s and 80s at the club and just shake my head thinking of the players running around getting a game in the Zebra colours now - the supporter passion has gone and it is such a shame to see Sandy's name sullied to such an extent.

[Wedgie]

I'll probably head down to TEAC Oval for the Casey v Northern Bullants game this Saturday. Last time I was at the ground was when SA had a great win there. I look forward to comparing the game with what Ive seen in the SANFL this year and will report back next week!

[Mr66]

SANFL by a country mile.
But if you had asked me the same question the '70s....?

[Wedgie]

I'll probably head down to TEAC Oval for the Casey v Northern Bullants game this Saturday. Last time I was at the ground was when SA had a great win there. I look forward to comparing the game with what Ive seen in the SANFL this year and will report back next week!

I might give a longer/better report next week as plan to go to another match but there is talk of them not being at Port Melbourne which might rule me out.
Initial impressions:
No atmosphere at VFL, noone even yelled out "Come on Casey" or "Go Bullants" when the game started. Instead of a hundred or two fanatics following each side there would have been 4 or 5 for each side. And this was a semi final!
Beer was cheap, entrance for 1 game wasn't ($15). Some people left as I got there (Williamstown played someone else in the reserves and the fans of those clubs were leaving).
Footy was a delight to watch, skills in the appalling conditions were great, I only noticed one team kick sideways/backwards once, other than that it was direct end to end stuff, it mesmorized me. I honestly dont know where the last 3/4s of the game went, I remember watching the first quarter from the stand where I got a bit bored and considered going to a pub to watch the AFL, but at quarter time I moved to the outer and stood up and it went so quick because the footy was so beautiful to watch.
I woke out of my trance as the final siren went and caught a tram back to town. The footy probably wasn't as intense/pressure filled as SANFL, probably rated it between a reserves game and a league game as far as intensity went.
Umpiring was sensational, miles in front of SANFL, mind you the orange outfits are awful.
The small crowd that were there were a bit more knowledgable/more intelligent than the average SANFL follower but most of them were there just to fill in space between AFL games and discuss family events, etc.
I had a quick chat to those serving in the beer booth, they said a game between teams like Port and Williamstown would have given me a better impression.
Locality fantastic, almost walking distance from Casino, tram nearby.
Facilities awful, no club rooms open to catch a glimpse of the AFL game on.
In short, no atmosphere, good footy, cheap beer and you couldn't compare the VFL to the SANFL. The SANFL as an overall package by a mile.
From the reports I read today I missed the better game on Sunday though.
Also the game was telecast on the ABC, so I have no idea why we can't/couldn't do it here on a Saturday.
They actually get both Saturday and Sunday's game's telecast.