Redbacks - my thoughts

[Dutchy]

Alright many many views on the failure of the Redbacks over the past few seasons but not much discussion on the root cause of their failures (IMO).

What we know -
Our players perform at District level
We have good coaches and support network at the SACA
Our bowlers more often than not break even with our opposition and put us in reasonable positions
We have excellent facilites for players to develop
We have batsmen that have ability

What we lack -
A competitive top level District competition that is not far beind First Class cricket

For me it stems back to the District level. Im going to focus on the batsmen as that is clearly the area we fall down. Our batsmen can consistently make easy runs in District cricket, with 13 teams the bowling stocks are very thin and they are big fish in small ponds back at that level. Are they getting the quality bowling that they need to prepare for First Class cricket? No. the poor quality they get allows them to play loose shots and get away with it, they then bring this to Pura Cup games and are found out...we can get away with it in the one day games as we have had mild success but not the longer form of the game.

They simply struggle against Quality bowling. How many easy wickets to you see of guys playing lazy shots and playing on? or getting caught behind chasing the wide delivery?

Solution?

13 teams is absolutely rediculous for a city of our size...thats 143 A grade players each week going out and pushing for the Rebbacks side or at least pushing the ones who have that desire, we dont have 143 quality players in this city...

Its not only the players but with 13 teams you spread the amount of quality coaches, umpires, facilities, members, juniors way too thin...What comes out the end of the production line? A very poor quality product

Some hard decisions need to be made, Im hoping with Rod Marsh now on the books he may start this. 8 teams would be plenty, 2 North, 2 South, 2 West and 2 East...if they need to do what Soccer have done and clear out all exisitng teams and send them to the turf comp, do it....

We need a competition that is as close as possible to First Class cricket...simple, no one can tell me we have that now.[/b]

[Adelaide Hawk]

Dutchy, I'll give you 10 out of 10 for that.

Anyone who thinks just sacking Flipper as Coach will solve the problems. they have their head in the sand. I have spoken with every Redbacks Coach since Peter Philpott, and they all say the same thing. They are severly hampered by the structure of SA cricket, and are unable to do their jobs effectively.

Hopefully Rod Marsh will come up with the plan required to lift the Redbacks. I have faith in the coaching panel at present, I don't have faith the Grade competition is providing potential Redback players quality preparation.

[RoosterMarty]

Very good thread. We have far too many teams at District level, something needs to be done but i can't see it happening in the future.
Does anybody know how many teams are in Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane??

[JK]

Excellent post Dutchy, agree almost wholeheartedly (would question the point about "Our players perform at District level" only)

[heater31]

100% agree Dutchy, way too many grade teams IMHO. Its going to be a hard call to make as some clubs have over 100 years of history (ie Adelaide, Sturt, East Torrens, West Torrens, Port Adelaide and Im sure there is others).

Prospect are a joke at the moment (sorry Jimmy) and Woodville have put in some ordinary performances this season and could head down the same path.

dont get me started on University the most arrogant bunch of pri*ks I have ever come across on a cricket pitch


two options that should be considered very closely,

we can piss one team off and split in to two divisons like English county cricket (I have already expressed my feelings on this site who that should be)
the other option is that the bottom three of the A grade are put on notice as a club to get their sh*t together in 2 years otherwise out the door you go no matter what history you have. similar to Port a few years back. this continunes until there is an acceptable amount of clubs in the comp.



The Joint venture between Athletes 1 and the SACA is only a short term measure and hasnt even got of the ground this year. so its not likley to work either.

[ca]

This has been talked about for 10 years, can't see it happening for another 10. Really the District clubs couldn't care less about the success of the Redbacks certainly not enough for this to happen. I can't see two divisions working, unless Redbacks players change clubs each season to remain in Div 1.

[Rik E Boy]

This has been talked about for 10 years, can't see it happening for another 10. Really the District clubs couldn't care less about the success of the Redbacks certainly not enough for this to happen. I can't see two divisions working, unless Redbacks players change clubs each season to remain in Div 1.

If a player was good enough, what would prevent the backs from selecting an outstanding player from the second division?

regards,

REB

[am Bays]

Very good thread. We have far too many teams at District level, something needs to be done but i can't see it happening in the future.
Does anybody know how many teams are in Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane??

Sydney have 20 I think and Melbourne 16.

[Blue Boy]

A couple of divisions - maybe could be the answer !!!

[matt]

dont get me started on University the most arrogant bunch of pri*ks I have ever come across on a cricket pitch

I am pretty sure they think just as highly of you heater.

[ca]

This has been talked about for 10 years, can't see it happening for another 10. Really the District clubs couldn't care less about the success of the Redbacks certainly not enough for this to happen. I can't see two divisions working, unless Redbacks players change clubs each season to remain in Div 1.

If a player was good enough, what would prevent the backs from selecting an outstanding player from the second division?

regards,

REB

Doesn't that defeat the purpose though, don't we want them to play against the best as preperation for first class cricket?

[Dutchy]

There needs to be a complete break away like the A-League did with the NSL...that means if a club wants to be part of the new comp they have to apply and meet certain criteria, winning a certain amount of games over the next 2 seasons could be one of them.

The existing clubs can continue in their own right keeping the tradition etc etc but in a 2nd division or Turf comp. (i.e. Adelaide City still exist)

Some might think this is a bit radical but it has to be to change the status quo...

[Max]

Two divisions sounds good in theory. But, in order to get the most from this system the Redback squad members need to all be in the top division. This doesn't mean that uncontracted players from div two couldn't be selected in the Redbacks, but it would be harder to display that you were up to the appropriate standard.

Ideally I think you would have a competition will eight or ten teams (maximum) and no div two...

I think allowing (or inviting) first class players from overseas to take advantage of the Southern Hemishphere summer would also work. What about a limit of two overseas players per club (subsidised by the players themselves and the SACA). You could probably lift the standard enough by doing just this and getting rid of just one current team.

[ORDoubleBlues]

Very good thread. We have far too many teams at District level, something needs to be done but i can't see it happening in the future.
Does anybody know how many teams are in Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane??

Sydney have 20 I think and Melbourne 16.

REB will probably disagree with me but I think that given the size of Melbourne and Sydney, they can support district cricket with 20 teams in it but along the lines of other posts, I think we can only support 10 in a premier grade at the most.

[heater31]

Very good thread. We have far too many teams at District level, something needs to be done but i can't see it happening in the future.
Does anybody know how many teams are in Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane??

Sydney have 20 I think and Melbourne 16.

REB will probably disagree with me but I think that given the size of Melbourne and Sydney, they can support district cricket with 20 teams in it but along the lines of other posts, I think we can only support 10 in a premier grade at the most.

I know in Sydney they also have a separate comp called the State league cup. similar to the series SA used to have when Greg Chappell was in charge before it fell over

[sydney-dog]

100% agree Dutchy, GREAT Post

it's all about the strength of the feeder comps

[sydney-dog]

100% agree Dutchy, GREAT Post

it's all about the strength of the feeder comps

one of the strengths of Australian cricket is it's Pura Cup comp, this has been one of the corner stones of Australia's success at international level

the state comp develops ready made test players such as Hussey

this strategy needs to be applied at State level, district cricket needs to be stong, competitive and produce the right envrionment to develop players ready for state cricket

SACA needs to build to produce results at the top

[mal]

A terrible post Dutchy
Everyone, including me agree with you.

To increase depth they were trying to have a certain amount of young English
players come over to play in our district comp.[about 2 playes each team ?]
It was meant to be the Darren Lehmann foundation[?]
It was cancelled about 2 weeks ago.
It was a Rod Marsh idea[?]

Having read what others have said a 8 team 1st div and a 2nd div. has merit.

The thing I have noticed is that our batsman are scoring good runs interstate
on good batting pitches, but Adelaide oval is giving help to faster bowlers this year
The batsman are not adjusting to good bowlers on helpful bowling tracks.

[croc11]

Further to the comments already made re: standard of District Cricket - there are also many other matters which need to be raised. Here goes from a number of players close to the side: 1. The 2 sided nature of the coach - saying one thing to the players and another to the selectors 2. The complete breakdown in communication between the selectors and the playing group and the massive breakdown with the senior playing group 3. As much as this is hard to state is our fearless captain becoming too big with his power amongst SA Cricket (ala the great David Hookes) and are our young players being led astray 4. What actually does Rod Marsh do? 5. The massive breakdown in communication between the administration and the playing group - were the admin group actually banned from the rooms last Wed night and how come the great Dizzy has to speak out via the Advertiser to get his points across? Why is no-one taking responsibility? 6. Who takes control of players like Cosgrove and Cullen - poor young Cosgrove - who is ensuring that he has a fitness person working with him as well as a nutritionist - if Cossie was an AFL player - would they allow this to happen with his weight - we all know the answer, so who is in charge of our playing group and who takes control and responsibility? We all know that District Cricket needs an overhaul - but there needs to be a huge overhaul and surely is has to start at the top. Why not review everything and start again - we are already at the worst end - the players are obviously fed up and annoyed and showing everyone with their efforts - time to change the guard completely.

[am Bays]

Further to the comments already made re: standard of District Cricket - there are also many other matters which need to be raised. Here goes from a number of players close to the side: 1. The 2 sided nature of the coach - saying one thing to the players and another to the selectors 2. The complete breakdown in communication between the selectors and the playing group and the massive breakdown with the senior playing group 3. As much as this is hard to state is our fearless captain becoming too big with his power amongst SA Cricket (ala the great David Hookes) and are our young players being led astray 4. What actually does Rod Marsh do? 5. The massive breakdown in communication between the administration and the playing group - were the admin group actually banned from the rooms last Wed night and how come the great Dizzy has to speak out via the Advertiser to get his points across? Why is no-one taking responsibility? 6. Who takes control of players like Cosgrove and Cullen - poor young Cosgrove - who is ensuring that he has a fitness person working with him as well as a nutritionist - if Cossie was an AFL player - would they allow this to happen with his weight - we all know the answer, so who is in charge of our playing group and who takes control and responsibility? We all know that District Cricket needs an overhaul - but there needs to be a huge overhaul and surely is has to start at the top. Why not review everything and start again - we are already at the worst end - the players are obviously fed up and annoyed and showing everyone with their efforts - time to change the guard completely.

Six months ago Cosgrove is in the Australian one-day side, why? Primarily the selectors thought here is the best young batting talent in teh country - probabaly hasn't performed like Jaques, Hodge et al but 6 months ago they tought he was the best up and comer....

he makes 2 x 50s in the side so the selectors know he can play at that level so if a spot opens up.........

Fast forward six months Voges gets picked for the Australain test squad, do you think he would have got picked ahead of Cosgrove if Cosgrove was 5 kg lighter as was making 120s instead of 20s???

Cosgrove is the bloke they want to pick, but the dumb pr!ck keeps eating and pissing it away...ATM....at 22 it is not too late son......