Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two months

[The Sleeping Giant]

http://www.pngfacts.com/44/post/2014/02/asylum-seekers-made-rape-threats-mp.html

[bennymacca]

The fact that no refugee that has a genuine claim from manus island gets settled in Australia is not opinion it's fact. I even provided you with references which you quite obviously didn't read.

So I still can't believe you think you can argue it. And the article you posted is disgusting but also beside the point.

[The Sleeping Giant]

Thats not true. One detainee has been found to be a genuine refugee and has been resettled in Australia.

And yes it is a disgusting article. Too think these illegal immigrants are wanting to set foot in Australia, even though they threaten to rape the mothers and daughters of the people trying to help them.

Let me ask you this. If these illegal immigrants are desperate to get away from their country of origin for what ever reason, and end up on Manus Island, why do they still want to come to Australia? They have the opportunity to start a new life in PNG once they have been processed and found to be a genuine refugee.

[cracka]

Don't we have the right to see if they are genuine first?

Yep, process them onshore like they do with asylum seekers arriving by plane.

Why not set up processing centres in Indonesia so they don't have to risk their lives coming by boat.

[cracka]

Jimmy, for starters have you never heard of New Zealand?? I guess not. I am confident that these asylum seekers would prefer to head there than Australia if they had a choice.

Problem for them would be New Zealands tougher stance on boat arrivals.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-07-12/nz-shuts-door-on-sri-lankan-asylum-seekers/2791302

[The Sleeping Giant]

He knows all this cracka. Being so well informed. No way would bp2 post something he hasn't researched thoroughly.

[Q.]

Travelling by boat only became an issue when we made it a policy to confiscate, destroy or turn back vessels. 'Expendable' boats started making the journey instead.

Perhaps a better policy would be to arrest those that travel in boats that are not seaworthy.

[The Sleeping Giant]

Maybe you should see the boats that the Vietnamese refugees arrived on in the 70's. Extremely expendable, so it isn't a new thing. Darwin museum has some on display if you are ever up this way.

[tigerpie]

My point exactly....be happy you are out of your former hell hole and make good wherever you lob.
I'm sure all arrivals unauthorised would be judged fairly on their merits and then whatever happens...happens.

Benny chill out mate its ok to be not quite right.

[Jimmy_041]

Jimmy, for starters have you never heard of New Zealand?? I guess not. I am confident that these asylum seekers would prefer to head there than Australia if they had a choice.

Yes, your general geography is good but do not forget that people from Afghanistan, Iran and Iraq may never have ever had a geography lesson in their life. It IS quite likely that they did not know that they were heading to Australia, believe it or not. Heck, when I travelled through Europe, a lot of people there had no clue where Australia is. This is people from countries that do have an education.

However, this is not the point that is being made in the article. Knowing that you are a man of intelligence, i truly thought you would be able to see that. You seem to be convinced of the fact that the main reasons asylum seekers travel is to head TO somewhere. The main reason is not heading to but heading AWAY. They are heading away from persecution, the risk of being killed etc. Their final destination is not important, as long as they arrive in a land where they may not have to fear that their lives are in danger.

Heck, have a look at the list of countries that asylum seekers go to to gain refugee status. if it was with the aim of going TO a country with wonderful living standards, why then are these countries at the top of the list:
Pakistan (number 1)
Iran (number 2)
Syria (number 3)
Kenya (number 5)
Jordan (number 6)
Chad (number 7)
China (number 8 )
Ethiopia (number 9)
Bangladesh (number 11)

This is the list that you provided earlier, your own list. The one that Australia is number 47 on.
Will it ever sink into you that asyum seekers travel FROM, not travel TO?
Cheers

I wasn't going to contribute anymore but this is just getting more outrageous.

As a matter of fact, I have been to NZ many times. Just for your information, Jakarta to Auckland is over 4,700nm. One of our patrol boats only has a range of 3000nm. Are Savitri Taylor and you seriously trying to convince me that these people had no idea where they were heading, or, in fact, were trying to make NZ?

I see my list.
I can read a map
I can see the nearest country to each of them
You have left out the US which borders Mexico
Germany that borders Eastern Europe.
People go to the nearest country (eg) Afghanistan to Pakistan or Iran, Iraq to Iran & Syria, Somalia to Kenya & Ethiopia, Palestine to Syria & Jordan, Mexico to US.
It's not difficult to join the dots between the two lists.

You do realise Afghanistan is landlocked so they cant come directly here by boat? Maybe they go through Iran or Pakistan and therefore they get accounted for in their figures? Then, after going to Pakistan, are you seriously trying to convince me they have no idea where they are going TO? They just head south to get AWAY with no idea where they are going? No-one has suggested Australia? No-one has seen a map? No wonder they try to get to NZ from Indonesia in a 20' boat!!!

Funny thing is, I read in one of the Papers that the majority of "boat people" are actually middle class, and would make a worthwhile contribution to our society. How convenient some of these "facts" are when it suits the argument on stage, so I'm not even buying the "illiterate" line any more.

I read a lot of Savitra Taylor's Papers this morning. This is an example of of the absurd statements and conclusions she makes. Absolutely ridiculous emotional statements that do little for your cause. I would love to sit in on Q&A with her and take her to task on parts of her Papers. Facts, not emotional tripe. Apparently, it is true because someone told me so

Savitra Taylor thinks we should be assisting these people to get he so they don't put their lives in danger. I agree with her on that.











When they apply for refugee status, are processed and found to actually be refugees; we do provide assistance.

I'll leave you with this stanza from one of her Papers:

Client Service
Unsurprisingly, the asylum seekers interviewed for the project were very unhappy about the delay experienced at every stage of their endeavour to gain recognition of refugee status in Indonesia. Moreover, UNHCR seemed to contribute unnecessarily to the anxiety levels of asylum seekers through poor management of expectations, e.g. promising to deliver decisions by a particular date and then subjecting asylum seekers to multiple postponements, and poor communication more generally.
Several asylum seekers criticised UNHCR for unresponsiveness on the occasions on which they attempted to initiate contact. In fairness it should be noted that some of these people had closed cases and were, therefore, technically no longer persons of concern to UNHCR. Other people, however, had active files but still found it difficult to get hold of anyone who was willing to answer their questions about the progress of their cases either on the phone or in person.
One person was particularly bitter about the fact that anyone who wanted to see a UNHCR officer had to line up outside UNHCR’s Jakarta office on a Friday even if it was raining. He said: ‘We have human rights and the right to meet officers but we can’t! We can only meet security guards!
The guards told us to wait out there! My shoes and clothes were all wet and I had fever when I got home! The UN never cares!’

Allowing people to be processed "onshore" will only increase the "expectation" because, in their view, they've "made" it.
They will never accept that they are to be deported or have not been granted refugee status (ie) see the "In fairness" comment (I would have thought an objective author would have expanded on this point, but it does not support what she is trying to champion)
As for the comment about the person who had to stand in the rain on a Friday: Am I meant to seriously consider a Paper with such utter gratuitously emotional comments as that? This person flees for his/her life and is particularly bitter about getting wet? Nice one for the bleeding hearts Savita, but try to get serious if you want to be taken seriously.

[The Sleeping Giant]

I like this one on Manus Island conditions.



“I get up at 9 am. I shower, though the water pressure is low and the showers are dirty. I asked G4S about fixing the water pressure, and they told me to go home if I want a good shower.”

- S.R., a 30-year-old from Pakistan, describing his life in the Oscar compound

[cracka]

Its good to see we all agree that we should be accepting refugees & most of us say we should increase our intake.
IMO the corrupt Indonesian government should be doing more to stop the boats. Apparently we give them around $500 million a year in financial aid plus they would get something from the smugglers. I would reduce financial aid or even cease it until they get their act together in helping stop the boats.
Also the UN needs to do more to stop the atrocities that these people are fleeing from. Of course there will always be the need for some to still flee.

[The Sleeping Giant]

60% of Australians think the government is too soft on asylum seekers.

[bennymacca]

60% of Australians think the government is too soft on asylum seekers.

Most of them, such as yourself, have bought into the delightful three word mantra perpetuated by tony Abbott that politicised the issue and tuner it into a border protection issue when really it is a humanitarian one. But given the Abbott government has also cut our humanitarian aid you can see he really doesn't give a shit about other people in their time of need

[The Sleeping Giant]

Labor party are equally responsible aren't they?

As I said earlier, I hope they keep coming.

[bennymacca]

Labor party are equally responsible aren't they?

As I said earlier, I hope they keep coming.

the labor party is just as bad, they brought in the old howardesque policies to try and de-politicise the issue, so i am just as angry with both parties. but it was abbott that kept it in the news cycle as a political issue

[The Sleeping Giant]

Worked well for him.

[shoe boy]

Cambodia??? really

[Q.]

Maybe you should see the boats that the Vietnamese refugees arrived on in the 70's. Extremely expendable, so it isn't a new thing. Darwin museum has some on display if you are ever up this way.

It's not the seventies. They were using seaworthy boats for some time before we politicised this.

[scoob]

My point exactly....be happy you are out of your former hell hole and make good wherever you lob.
I'm sure all arrivals unauthorised would be judged fairly on their merits and then whatever happens...happens.

Benny chill out mate its ok to be not quite right.

But they didnt pay to lob in PNG they paid to lob in Australia