Where to for Glenelg

[therisingblues]

Funny how these AFL-ites have this recurring opinion how we should stand by the league, when they all jumped off it years ago.
What's the matter, worried that there'll be nobody to watch your reserves play?

That's an unreasonable assumption to make.

Okay, some of you followed both leagues, some longer than others. Vast majority jumped ship.

[UK Fan]

There's a few people here who get it. Plenty of other SANFL clubs have cried poor and been saved by rattling the tins. But Glenelg is the first one to hit the skids, having betrayed its members and as part of a competition drowning in apathy. I seriously doubt there are enough people who'll dig deep enough into their pockets to save a side so they can go and watch them play four games against AFL reserves teams per year. The competition is not like it was, it's not what we want and I doubt it ever will be again. I suspect Glenelg will disappear, And they won't be the last ones. You reap what you sow in this world and those responsible at the Bay are going to have to live with that.

What a difference a year makes

[whufc]

I honestly think its a huge problem most SANFL clubs will face in the next 5 years.

So many passionate supporters have walked away from their clubs since the AFL's inclusion.

Its all good and well to get a yearly sum from the AFL clubs, its all good and well to get the few warm and fuzzy types who want to come along and take a look and see how their 'reserves players are coming along' but honestly how are these clubs going to survive with so many 'ultra passionate' fans having left!!

Throw in the fact its really difficult to see where the next lot of SANFL club supporters are going to come from since we now compete with the Crows and Power for fans in the same competition and there seems to be no relief in sight.

The only option i honestly believe the SANFL clubs have is to just completely reduce expenditure as its almost impossible to see where increased income will come from.

Salary cap will probably need to be reduced (which then leads to its own issues)
Spending on facilities will need to be reduced
Paid staffing on match days will need to be reduce

The list goes on and on

[JK]

From all the reserves teams blaming going on in here I take it Glenelg were in making profits year after year before 2014?

No, Glenelgs financial trouble rests on their own shoulders - whilst they might have been unlucky with things like debt level in a changed economy, they made their own decisions.

Trying to get out of the hole, as per WHUFC's example post, is likely greatly hindered by the altered state of the competition that we have today and have had for the previous two seasons.

Bloody oath it is.
I don't know why this comment keeps getting repeated by the Afflites, I haven't read one comment that has attested to this. I think it is just something that is easy to say, as opposed to arguing the point that passion has diminished as a result of the two unwanted guests.

Yep. it's no different to AFL fans that view that SANFL with disdain, making comments along the lines of "You're never going to be the drawcard in this state again, get over it" when no SANFL person in their right mind has ever expected, nor voiced anything to suggest a return to the Golden Years was possible or desired. Frustrating as F***!

[cracka]

So the actual blame for the AFL reserves in the SANFL & the ultimate downfall of the SANFL should all be put on the 6 clubs that voted yes & not the crows or power for wanting into the SANFL.

Sure. The 6 'yes' clubs do deserve the blame, because they ultimately voted for it. But the Crows aren’t blameless in this. To think that is to ignore the inequitable power balance that exists between the very popular and resource-heavy Crows and a collection of semi-amateur clubs struggling with identity and relevance, and who were ripe to be taken advantage of.

Don't forget the Crows were absolutely desperate to have a reserves side, all part of Brenton Sanderson's (remember him?) plan. They would've stopped at nothing to get what they want, because, well, they always do. They're the sporting darlings of a state that loves its sport. I have no doubt that if there was an Adelaide Crows political party people would seriously vote for it.

But I digress. The Crows wanted something bad and did whatever they could, behind the scenes, to get it.

I think some have said that even if the vote was unanimous against, the Crows still would've pulled out an ace and gotten their own way anyway. I’m not so sure. The Crows know the benefit of a warm and fuzzy positive public image, and would’ve never overturned the official vote. They wanted to earn the trust of the clubs, and also reinforce the impression that the SANFL clubs’ independent decision-making was the key to the vote. So they remained in the shadows and exerted their influence until they knew the majority vote would go their way.

It might appear as if the clubs are guilty of voting for the reserves sides, but in my mind they’re guilty of being hoodwinked by a bunch of charlatans. Yes, they ostensibly voted for it, but the Crows pulled the strings. Machiavelli would be proud.

It still comes down to 6 clubs voted yes, regardless of being hoodwinked or taken advantage of, they voted yes. If as you say the crows would have done anything to get in then again it's the fault of the 6 SANFL clubs for not getting more from them, shit they're semi professional organisations themselves but what you're saying amounts to them being as amateur as a high school SRC.

[therisingblues]

I dread to say it.
But I think we are almost at the stage where the best thing to save the SANFL's identity would be a third side in the AFL.
No way do two sides on the national stage adequately reflect the diverse culture of football in SA.
And the SANFL no longer represent what's left of it.
Port have their boat, expecting that the rest of us are going to identify with the one other option on offer is a joke.
Pre-AFL, Port's largest slice of the South Australian pie was less than a third, why they are now presented as one half of a team home option is bullshit.
I know this will not be a popular idea, but the SANFL is fast turning into a museum piece with no heart. In 20 years when the core of those that have held on for so long are old men and women, or dead, there will be nothing significant to remind people of what once was.
I think that a third side might be the best way to salvage some of it.

[whufc]

I dread to say it.
But I think we are almost at the stage where the best thing to save the SANFL's identity would be a third side in the AFL.
No way do two sides on the national stage adequately reflect the diverse culture of football in SA.
And the SANFL no longer represent what's left of it.
Port have their boat, expecting that the rest of us are going to identify with the one other option on offer is a joke.
Pre-AFL, Port's largest slice of the South Australian pie was less than a third, why they are now presented as one half of a team home option is bullshit.
I know this will not be a popular idea, but the SANFL is fast turning into a museum piece with no heart. In 20 years when the core of those that have held on for so long are old men and women, or dead, there will be nothing significant to remind people of what once was.
I think that a third side might be the best way to salvage some of it.

The current Port is not the Port we remember.

As each generation comes and goes the 'hatred and 'passion' we have for Port will not be there as the next generation wont know or care of Port in the 70's, 80's, 90's. They wont remember or care of the GF losses to them etc etc.

[therisingblues]

I dread to say it.
But I think we are almost at the stage where the best thing to save the SANFL's identity would be a third side in the AFL.
No way do two sides on the national stage adequately reflect the diverse culture of football in SA.
And the SANFL no longer represent what's left of it.
Port have their boat, expecting that the rest of us are going to identify with the one other option on offer is a joke.
Pre-AFL, Port's largest slice of the South Australian pie was less than a third, why they are now presented as one half of a team home option is bullshit.
I know this will not be a popular idea, but the SANFL is fast turning into a museum piece with no heart. In 20 years when the core of those that have held on for so long are old men and women, or dead, there will be nothing significant to remind people of what once was.
I think that a third side might be the best way to salvage some of it.

The current Port is not the Port we remember.

As each generation comes and goes the 'hatred and 'passion' we have for Port will not be there as the next generation wont know or care of Port in the 70's, 80's, 90's. They wont remember or care of the GF losses to them etc etc.

Yep, all that culture will be lost. If another club was to enter, a club with its roots in an actual SANFL club (perhaps 2 clubs) that history will be preserved to some extent. Same as Port flaunts its history every chance it gets, the same option will be available to the new entity.
In a way I think a second side would make Port's history more relevant. I think it would lend the Crows a stronger culture too. It would be closer to the difference that exists between Glenelg and Norwood, or North and South if you like.

[Magellan]

It still comes down to 6 clubs voted yes, regardless of being hoodwinked or taken advantage of, they voted yes. If as you say the crows would have done anything to get in then again it's the fault of the 6 SANFL clubs for not getting more from them, shit they're semi professional organisations themselves but what you're saying amounts to them being as amateur as a high school SRC.

To be sure, it certainly has been amateur hour/year/years at Prospect. I won't resile from that. One thing that disappoints me is that North, a club making money hand over fist, felt the need to cower at the future of an SANFL without the Crows and Power pumping them up.

But to reiterate, the local clubs were, perhaps for want of a better word, vulnerable and the Crows peddled a solution. The Crows are powerful and wield massive influence. It can be easy to forget this given their considerable lack of on-field success for nearly two decades. It's naive to say that it was simply the clubs' decision to vote and that's that.

The point for me is this: if the Crows really gave a stuff about the SANFL, the organization from which it was founded from, and which it conveniently relies on when they have talk about history, it wouldn't have threatened its viability by inserting a practice squad into it for its own purposes. It already had a method by which second string players got a run. They just got greedy.

[cracka]

It still comes down to 6 clubs voted yes, regardless of being hoodwinked or taken advantage of, they voted yes. If as you say the crows would have done anything to get in then again it's the fault of the 6 SANFL clubs for not getting more from them, shit they're semi professional organisations themselves but what you're saying amounts to them being as amateur as a high school SRC.

To be sure, it certainly has been amateur hour/year/years at Prospect. I won't resile from that. One thing that disappoints me is that North, a club making money hand over fist, felt the need to cower at the future of an SANFL without the Crows and Power pumping them up.

But to reiterate, the local clubs were, perhaps for want of a better word, vulnerable and the Crows peddled a solution. The Crows are powerful and wield massive influence. It can be easy to forget this given their considerable lack of on-field success for nearly two decades. It's naive to say that it was simply the clubs' decision to vote and that's that.

The point for me is this: if the Crows really gave a stuff about the SANFL, the organization from which it was founded from, and which it conveniently relies on when they have talk about history, it wouldn't have threatened its viability by inserting a practice squad into it for its own purposes. It already had a method by which second string players got a run. They just got greedy.

But it was a sh!t method according to both the SANFL clubs & the crows. Cant blame the crows for wanting a better method & to be on an even par as all the other AFL clubs.

[tipper]

It still comes down to 6 clubs voted yes, regardless of being hoodwinked or taken advantage of, they voted yes. If as you say the crows would have done anything to get in then again it's the fault of the 6 SANFL clubs for not getting more from them, shit they're semi professional organisations themselves but what you're saying amounts to them being as amateur as a high school SRC.

To be sure, it certainly has been amateur hour/year/years at Prospect. I won't resile from that. One thing that disappoints me is that North, a club making money hand over fist, felt the need to cower at the future of an SANFL without the Crows and Power pumping them up.

But to reiterate, the local clubs were, perhaps for want of a better word, vulnerable and the Crows peddled a solution. The Crows are powerful and wield massive influence. It can be easy to forget this given their considerable lack of on-field success for nearly two decades. It's naive to say that it was simply the clubs' decision to vote and that's that.

The point for me is this: if the Crows really gave a stuff about the SANFL, the organization from which it was founded from, and which it conveniently relies on when they have talk about history, it wouldn't have threatened its viability by inserting a practice squad into it for its own purposes. It already had a method by which second string players got a run. They just got greedy.

But it was a sh!t method according to both the SANFL clubs & the crows. Cant blame the crows for wanting a better method & to be on an even par as all the other AFL clubs.

but you can blame them for wanting to trash over 100 years of history to get that better method. they had other options, they could have pushed the afl for a reserves league. instead they chose the easier (read cheaper) option of taking advantage of the sanfl, and attempted to dress it up as doing the league a favour.....

[Mickyj]

It still comes down to 6 clubs voted yes, regardless of being hoodwinked or taken advantage of, they voted yes. If as you say the crows would have done anything to get in then again it's the fault of the 6 SANFL clubs for not getting more from them, shit they're semi professional organisations themselves but what you're saying amounts to them being as amateur as a high school SRC.

To be sure, it certainly has been amateur hour/year/years at Prospect. I won't resile from that. One thing that disappoints me is that North, a club making money hand over fist, felt the need to cower at the future of an SANFL without the Crows and Power pumping them up.

But to reiterate, the local clubs were, perhaps for want of a better word, vulnerable and the Crows peddled a solution. The Crows are powerful and wield massive influence. It can be easy to forget this given their considerable lack of on-field success for nearly two decades. It's naive to say that it was simply the clubs' decision to vote and that's that.

The point for me is this: if the Crows really gave a stuff about the SANFL, the organization from which it was founded from, and which it conveniently relies on when they have talk about history, it wouldn't have threatened its viability by inserting a practice squad into it for its own purposes. It already had a method by which second string players got a run. They just got greedy.

But it was a sh!t method according to both the SANFL clubs & the crows. Cant blame the crows for wanting a better method & to be on an even par as all the other AFL clubs.

Cracka I think one point you have hit on the head
SANFL has two AFL reserves in the competition
I think if the Crows are here playing every other team . Then either the Crows play by the same rules as Port .
Or Port are forced to play by the same rules as the Crows
Simple
Once Port accept its SANFL side plays every game at suburban ovals the better .
I hate to say maybe the Crows have an academy side I hate that port do but if port do then so should the crows
I'm sorry it's the 21st century Port must learn they left the SANFL and are a AFL team

[Wedgie]

From all the reserves teams blaming going on in here I take it Glenelg were in making profits year after year before 2014?

Thats not the point, the point is the reserves teams have contributed to clubs going downhill and also contributed to the people who could help turn things around no longer being there.
For eg. I was a part of the Roosters Against Merger group in the 90s, in the early 2000s I organised the Rooster Rally which a lot of people credit helping turn the fortunes of the club around, I've also been a runner up for Volunteer of the Year award, went interstate twice following North, have been a part of the Presidents group twice, I created and ran the clubs official website for years and created a club unofficial site/forum as well as safooty which has helped build/keep interest in the club/comp and used to be a volunteer SANFL acreddited photographer, etc etc.
Thanks to the reserves debacle I wouldn't lift a finger to help North if something happened these days, I struggle to get motivated to travel 5 mins to see them play and I helped organise my daughter a gig as a trainer/physio at South. I only go to games to catch up with mates. I'm sure Glenelg and other clubs have many people like me.

Please don't interpret my post as blowing my own trumpet as I did it all out of love and passion of which I have none now which is a big point of what the point is.

So the actual blame for the AFL reserves in the SANFL & the ultimate downfall of the SANFL should all be put on the 6 clubs that voted yes & not the crows or power for wanting into the SANFL.

Correct, if somrone let a rabid snot laden monster into my house I'd blame them after I smashed the shit out of the monster.

[cracka]

It still comes down to 6 clubs voted yes, regardless of being hoodwinked or taken advantage of, they voted yes. If as you say the crows would have done anything to get in then again it's the fault of the 6 SANFL clubs for not getting more from them, shit they're semi professional organisations themselves but what you're saying amounts to them being as amateur as a high school SRC.

To be sure, it certainly has been amateur hour/year/years at Prospect. I won't resile from that. One thing that disappoints me is that North, a club making money hand over fist, felt the need to cower at the future of an SANFL without the Crows and Power pumping them up.

But to reiterate, the local clubs were, perhaps for want of a better word, vulnerable and the Crows peddled a solution. The Crows are powerful and wield massive influence. It can be easy to forget this given their considerable lack of on-field success for nearly two decades. It's naive to say that it was simply the clubs' decision to vote and that's that.

The point for me is this: if the Crows really gave a stuff about the SANFL, the organization from which it was founded from, and which it conveniently relies on when they have talk about history, it wouldn't have threatened its viability by inserting a practice squad into it for its own purposes. It already had a method by which second string players got a run. They just got greedy.

But it was a sh!t method according to both the SANFL clubs & the crows. Cant blame the crows for wanting a better method & to be on an even par as all the other AFL clubs.

but you can blame them for wanting to trash over 100 years of history to get that better method. they had other options, they could have pushed the afl for a reserves league. instead they chose the easier (read cheaper) option of taking advantage of the sanfl, and attempted to dress it up as doing the league a favour.....

If I'm sold a product that turns out to be sh!t, I blame myself for being a gullible dick & buying it, not the person who sold it to me.

[cracka]

From all the reserves teams blaming going on in here I take it Glenelg were in making profits year after year before 2014?

Thats not the point, the point is the reserves teams have contributed to clubs going downhill and also contributed to the people who could help turn things around no longer being there.
For eg. I was a part of the Roosters Against Merger group in the 90s, in the early 2000s I organised the Rooster Rally which a lot of people credit helping turn the fortunes of the club around, I've also been a runner up for Volunteer of the Year award, went interstate twice following North, have been a part of the Presidents group twice, I created and ran the clubs official website for years and created a club unofficial site/forum as well as safooty which has helped build/keep interest in the club/comp and used to be a volunteer SANFL acreddited photographer, etc etc.
Thanks to the reserves debacle I wouldn't lift a finger to help North if something happened these days, I struggle to get motivated to travel 5 mins to see them play and I helped organise my daughter a gig as a trainer/physio at South. I only go to games to catch up with mates. I'm sure Glenelg and other clubs have many people like me.

Please don't interpret my post as blowing my own trumpet as I did it all out of love and passion of which I have none now which is a big point of what the point is.

So the actual blame for the AFL reserves in the SANFL & the ultimate downfall of the SANFL should all be put on the 6 clubs that voted yes & not the crows or power for wanting into the SANFL.

Correct, if somrone let a rabid snot laden monster into my house I'd blame them after I smashed the shit out of the monster.

You're probably the biggest hypocrite on here, the crows only wanted the same as what Geelong & all the other AFL teams have but you dont have a problem with that.

[Magellan]

If I'm sold a product that turns out to be sh!t, I blame myself for being a gullible dick & buying it, not the person who sold it to me.

I'm not sure it's the right analogy, but nonetheless, what you've said above is correct.

But what if you bought that product on the basis that the shopkeeper pointed a gun at your head and said, "buy this or else"?

[Dogwatcher]

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=39508

[cracka]

If I'm sold a product that turns out to be sh!t, I blame myself for being a gullible dick & buying it, not the person who sold it to me.

I'm not sure it's the right analogy, but nonetheless, what you've said above is correct.

But what if you bought that product on the basis that the shopkeeper pointed a gun at your head and said, "buy this or else"?

That's a new twist, I hadn't heard that a gun was held to 6 different club presidents heads.

[therisingblues]

http://www.safooty.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=39508

Just underlines the pertinence of this issue does it not? Any topic discussing anything that is wrong with this league comes back to this.
What do people expect though, a huge part of their lives thus far has been shat on.

[therisingblues]

If I'm sold a product that turns out to be sh!t, I blame myself for being a gullible dick & buying it, not the person who sold it to me.

I'm not sure it's the right analogy, but nonetheless, what you've said above is correct.

But what if you bought that product on the basis that the shopkeeper pointed a gun at your head and said, "buy this or else"?

That's a new twist, I hadn't heard that a gun was held to 6 different club presidents heads.

Not an actual gun. I do remember threats of "going elsewhere" and using their influence to not only take all their sponsors with them, but also to filch sponsors currently supporting the SANFL and SANFL clubs, and doing all that they can to promote whatever league it is that they landed in, in opposition to the SANFL.
Not exactly a gun, but certainly a threat that had the potential to kill off the SANFL.