Harvey better than Hird

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Re: Harvey better than Hird

Postby Hondo » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:27 pm

True - but most times the Brownlow comes from one of the top teams even tho players take votes from each other. The 3-2-1 system always favors the team that wins. For any player to win from a low team, let alone in a non-midfield position, he has to be outstanding.

FWIW its a couple of hairs width between them IMO
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Re: Harvey better than Hird

Postby rod_rooster » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:38 pm

hondo71 wrote:
And sorry, while Dunstall was also brilliant I still can't accept how he can be rated better than one of the few full forwards to win a Brownlow medal (and even fewer to have done it playing for a team near the bottom of the ladder at the time). Just IMO but he would be FF in my dream team.


Dunstall was 1 vote off the Brownlow in 1992 (and should have won it). Must have been a lot easier for him to get votes in a side like that than in a St. Kilda side that was sh1thouse :roll: No-one to take votes off Dunstall but plenty of blokes in the St. Kilda side that were just lining up for votes i guess :roll:

Each to their own and plenty of people will differ on who is the better player out of Dunstall or Lockett. Personally neither of them would be Full Forward in my dream team though.

Ken Farmer - end of discussion :wink:
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Re: Harvey better than Hird

Postby devilsadvocate » Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:31 am

GWW wrote:
devilsadvocate wrote:
Wedgie wrote:Agreed.
1st Ablett
2nd Robran
3rd Farmer
4th Daylight

Geoff Farmer isn't that good..... :lol:

You're right Jeff is far better ;) :lol:


Crud....I double-dutched myself on that one! :oops: :oops: :oops:
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Re: Harvey better than Hird

Postby Hondo » Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:05 am

R-R

Agree on Farmer as a dream team FF

And just to prove there's nothing between the other two):

Dunstall 269 games, 1254 goals, av 4.7 goals per game
Lockett 281 games, 1360 goals, av 4.8 goals per game

In the early days of the Crows I had no doubt which of the 2 great FF's I feared playing the most - Lockett just stitched us up, I was at Footy park in 1991 on a wet, cold night and watched him dominate. I wonder what Lockett's stats would have been if he had played for a team that won 4 or 5 premierships and regularly finished in the top 3, rather than the Saints and Swans.
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Re: Harvey better than Hird

Postby sydney-dog » Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:19 am

when at the crows Blighty never tagged Harvey, the reason, Blighty believed that Harvey picked up most of his touches in the back half and rarely punished teams with his possessions forward of centre

since this time I have watched Harvey with this in mind and I certainly agree with Blighty's thoughts

IMO, Hird is the better player as he had the capability to hurt sides and play numerous roles
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Re: Harvey better than Hird

Postby devilsadvocate » Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:50 am

sydney-dog wrote:when at the crows Blighty never tagged Harvey, the reason, Blighty believed that Harvey picked up most of his touches in the back half and rarely punished teams with his possessions forward of centre

since this time I have watched Harvey with this in mind and I certainly agree with Blighty's thoughts

IMO, Hird is the better player as he had the capability to hurt sides and play numerous roles


That's exactly the reason I think Hird is the better player. Harvey is a great player and gets as much of the pill as anybody, but he doesn't single-handedly change a game and dominate like Hird used to.

Also going back to the topic of performing unbelievable feats, Gavin Wanganeen could do things that defied physics.
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Re: Harvey better than Hird

Postby Wedgie » Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:37 am

Ian wrote:Ablett was the greatest.

Agreed.
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Re: Harvey better than Hird

Postby Rik E Boy » Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:29 pm

Both are truly great players. My vote goes to Harvey only because he has had a better run with injury over the years and as such has turned in a truly amazing run of consistently brilliant seasons. Hird's courage cost him matches but IMO in the latter years Hirdy was getting medals and accolades merely for turning up. The 'Dreamtime' medal in the Richmond v Essendon game is one that comes to mind.

Harvey just ahead but not much in it to be honest.

regards,

REB
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Re: Harvey better than Hird

Postby Rik E Boy » Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:32 pm

sydney-dog wrote:when at the crows Blighty never tagged Harvey, the reason, Blighty believed that Harvey picked up most of his touches in the back half and rarely punished teams with his possessions forward of centre

since this time I have watched Harvey with this in mind and I certainly agree with Blighty's thoughts

IMO, Hird is the better player as he had the capability to hurt sides and play numerous roles



This tactic worked an absolute treat in the Qualifying final of 2005. Craig did not respect Harvey and he cut up the Cows. The Final, the home ground advantage and perhaps the premiership was lost. Craig will never be in that position again at the Blackbirds.

regards,

REB
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Re: Harvey better than Hird

Postby Rik E Boy » Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:35 pm

Booney wrote:Dunstall easy.


Lockett kicked more career snags playing for battlers while Dunstall was getting silver service on a platter from one of the most powerfull combinations in football history. Plugger for mine.

regards,

REB
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Re: Harvey better than Hird

Postby Blue Boy » Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:41 pm

Rik E Boy wrote:
sydney-dog wrote:when at the crows Blighty never tagged Harvey, the reason, Blighty believed that Harvey picked up most of his touches in the back half and rarely punished teams with his possessions forward of centre

since this time I have watched Harvey with this in mind and I certainly agree with Blighty's thoughts

IMO, Hird is the better player as he had the capability to hurt sides and play numerous roles



This tactic worked an absolute treat in the Qualifying final of 2005. Craig did not respect Harvey and he cut up the Cows. The Final, the home ground advantage and perhaps the premiership was lost. Craig will never be in that position again at the Blackbirds.

regards,

REB



Harsh there Reb but I must agree !!! :(
It is what it is !!!
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Re: Harvey better than Hird

Postby JK » Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:53 pm

Wedgie wrote:
Ian wrote:Ablett was the greatest.

Agreed.


For me too
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Re: Harvey better than Hird

Postby Ian » Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:32 pm

Constance_Perm wrote:
Wedgie wrote:
Ian wrote:Ablett was the greatest.

Agreed.


For me too



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Re: Harvey better than Hird

Postby G » Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:39 am

Wedgie, you rate Ablett above Robran but my question is - How many games between 1967 and 1973 did you see Barrie play ?
They were his prime years and you were probably too young and or were following Norwood at the time. :wink: :wink:
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Re: Harvey better than Hird

Postby sydney-dog » Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:48 am

Blue Boy wrote:
Rik E Boy wrote:
sydney-dog wrote:when at the crows Blighty never tagged Harvey, the reason, Blighty believed that Harvey picked up most of his touches in the back half and rarely punished teams with his possessions forward of centre

since this time I have watched Harvey with this in mind and I certainly agree with Blighty's thoughts

IMO, Hird is the better player as he had the capability to hurt sides and play numerous roles



This tactic worked an absolute treat in the Qualifying final of 2005. Craig did not respect Harvey and he cut up the Cows. The Final, the home ground advantage and perhaps the premiership was lost. Craig will never be in that position again at the Blackbirds.

regards,

REB



Harsh there Reb but I must agree !!! :(


Harvey was not the reason why rhw crows lost the 2005 qualifying final
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Re: Harvey better than Hird

Postby sydney-dog » Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:44 pm

Blue Boy wrote:
Rik E Boy wrote:
sydney-dog wrote:when at the crows Blighty never tagged Harvey, the reason, Blighty believed that Harvey picked up most of his touches in the back half and rarely punished teams with his possessions forward of centre

since this time I have watched Harvey with this in mind and I certainly agree with Blighty's thoughts

IMO, Hird is the better player as he had the capability to hurt sides and play numerous roles



This tactic worked an absolute treat in the Qualifying final of 2005. Craig did not respect Harvey and he cut up the Cows. The Final, the home ground advantage and perhaps the premiership was lost. Craig will never be in that position again at the Blackbirds.

regards,

REB



Harsh there Reb but I must agree !!! :(


not to mention, the tactic worked a treat in the 1997 GF
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Re: Harvey better than Hird

Postby Dirko » Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:50 pm

For mine Hird was better. That is from my perspective of watching Carlton v Essendon games more so then Carlton v St Kilda.
Against the Blues Hirdy always stepped up much like Kouta always did when he played Essendon.

Hirdy is in my favourite top 10 footballers of ALL time, and as a Carlton man, that is the highest complement...
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Re: Harvey better than Hird

Postby Blue Boy » Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:56 pm

Syd

Actually I do agree a little because if I was his man I would of showed a little more respect after Harvey had 10 touches with in 5 or 6 minutes and played a little closer to him as he was having a direct effect on the game ( Simon Goodwin was his direct opponent ) !!!

Or maybe the coach could of thought oh it did work once but its not friggin workin this time and have some one run with him for a while ??? ( As proven cause something works once it dont mean it will work every time )
It is what it is !!!
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Re: Harvey better than Hird

Postby Blue Boy » Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:01 pm

Syd

As for 97 enjoyed it so much and is one of the best days ive ever had @ the footy - but if you watch it closely enough I think DJ knockin the wind out of Harvey had a really big effect on Harveys influence or lack of it on that day !!!

Just to let ya know I actually know Rob personally and he rekons he was still rattlin the next day !!!
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Re: Harvey better than Hird

Postby RustyCage » Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:24 pm

Rik E Boy wrote:
sydney-dog wrote:when at the crows Blighty never tagged Harvey, the reason, Blighty believed that Harvey picked up most of his touches in the back half and rarely punished teams with his possessions forward of centre

since this time I have watched Harvey with this in mind and I certainly agree with Blighty's thoughts

IMO, Hird is the better player as he had the capability to hurt sides and play numerous roles



This tactic worked an absolute treat in the Qualifying final of 2005. Craig did not respect Harvey and he cut up the Cows. The Final, the home ground advantage and perhaps the premiership was lost. Craig will never be in that position again at the Blackbirds.

regards,

REB


Get a tape of the 2004 prelim and watch Harvey dominate and say he's not a damaging player
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