The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

[tipper]

Because of the AFL reserves inclusion people have been lost to the SANFL, will they return? Perhaps, perhaps not, perhaps an 8 team "pure" competition will mean more people walk away, who can tell?

who can tell? well, i would suggest that the "anti's" have a proven track record in predicting what will happen with the changes in the league. posters like wedgie, uk fan, lph etc etc, they argued against the introduction of the reserves sides, and so far they have been proven correct on every count. crowds have fallen, memberships have fallen, media interest (apart from that focused on the reserves sides) has fallen, the crows $50k hasnt been the financial saviour of the clubs, the crows arent getting crowds of 4k (with or without opposition support), even the maggies crowds have plummeted.....

maybe, just maybe, the passionate and loyal sanfl supporters actually can see what is best for their own league and can see through the bullshit spin put forth by the afl clubs and those sucking up to them. maybe this time they will also be correct that the removal of the reserves sides will help the league.

either way, surely any good business would see that this change has hurt the leagues health, and attempt to make changes to correct the damage. the experiment failed. surely its time to either excise the problem, or make other changes to reverse the slide. sticking to a bad decision is much worse than making the bad decision in the first place. people need to admit they were wrong, and fix the issue sooner rather than later.

Agreed, the damage may be irreparable and beyond repair.

yep, i doubt i would have the time anymore to come back as a regular. i now have a membership of another sport to occupy my time on weekends, one in which i actually compete, and i dare say a lot of the others that stopped coming with the introduction of the reserves would be in a similar boat. many would have moved on to other things.

still, admitting the experiment failed would be a good start. the league directors need to stand up, admit the stuff up, and openly begin discussing how to fix things. just that alone would make a difference to my mindset.

highly doubt the big wigs at North will do that though. they never make mistakes. it will take the leadership of the other clubs to show the way sadly. they told me at the "info night" that if the reserves sides ruined the league they would rather close the club than get rid of the cause. they are willing to ride this one into the ground

[matt35]

Not that it really matters much, on Cracka's posts re the timing of the reserves debate, it had certainly been floated well prior to 2012, although there is no argument that Sanderson took it up strongly and got the support of the club strongly behind the push. I came across a tape recently dating back to some time in 1997 where Graham Cornes was strongly pushing for it and he and KG were arguing over it. I'm unable to provide context or what led to the discussion, but he was strongly arguing for a Crows reserves team at the time. I have a feeling that around this time the Crows were having an issue with Neil Craig and Norwood, so it is possible that this was behind this discussion, but I can't say for certain.

[VALE PARK]

You may all be surprised how many followers of the league,
who never turn up to games,
and just check the scores,
love their crows and power,
think the league competition is going swimmingly.

[Magellan]

Not that it really matters much, on Cracka's posts re the timing of the reserves debate, it had certainly been floated well prior to 2012, although there is no argument that Sanderson took it up strongly and got the support of the club strongly behind the push. I came across a tape recently dating back to some time in 1997 where Graham Cornes was strongly pushing for it and he and KG were arguing over it. I'm unable to provide context or what led to the discussion, but he was strongly arguing for a Crows reserves team at the time. I have a feeling that around this time the Crows were having an issue with Neil Craig and Norwood, so it is possible that this was behind this discussion, but I can't say for certain.

And that was my point - not about who discussed, argued the merits of, floated, posited or dreamed up the concept of a reserves side (I mean, we all know reserves sides have been around ever since clubs have been around), but who wanted to take it from a concept and make it a reality. Whether that makes it Sanderson's 'brainchild' or not, so be it, that's really a semantic argument.

I acknowledged in my original post that the idea was tossed around in the early days of the Crows in the media, particularly re: Neil Craig, and I can also remember KG and Cornes going on about it at various points in time back in the 90s. But as you say, Matt, the guy who took up the idea and had the desire and ability to convince the club to put it into action was Sanderson.

[UK Fan]

If an AFL coach accused the AFl of "bending over" he would need to offer a public apology and cough up about $50K .

Just shows how much respect the powers at CDFC have for those running our comp atm.

[cracka]

Not that it really matters much, on Cracka's posts re the timing of the reserves debate, it had certainly been floated well prior to 2012, although there is no argument that Sanderson took it up strongly and got the support of the club strongly behind the push. I came across a tape recently dating back to some time in 1997 where Graham Cornes was strongly pushing for it and he and KG were arguing over it. I'm unable to provide context or what led to the discussion, but he was strongly arguing for a Crows reserves team at the time. I have a feeling that around this time the Crows were having an issue with Neil Craig and Norwood, so it is possible that this was behind this discussion, but I can't say for certain.

And that was my point - not about who discussed, argued the merits of, floated, posited or dreamed up the concept of a reserves side (I mean, we all know reserves sides have been around ever since clubs have been around), but who wanted to take it from a concept and make it a reality. Whether that makes it Sanderson's 'brainchild' or not, so be it, that's really a semantic argument.

I acknowledged in my original post that the idea was tossed around in the early days of the Crows in the media, particularly re: Neil Craig, and I can also remember KG and Cornes going on about it at various points in time back in the 90s. But as you say, Matt, the guy who took up the idea and had the desire and ability to convince the club to put it into action was Sanderson.

Sorry my bad,I thought when you said it was his brainchild you meant that was the 1st time it was talked about.

[Apachebulldog]

Good onya Roy those AFL INTERLOPERS were told CDFC keep up the fight to get rid of this AFL CONTAGION out of the SANFL

NO AFL IN THE SANFL

in simple words just
FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKOFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF!!!!!!!!

[LPH]

Agreed, the damage may be irreparable and beyond repair.

Not sure that should be a reason not to try & fix the problem that the 'weak 7' brought upon themselves.
My gut feeling is they/we won't get the chance - as tipper suggests re: The North Board.

It is 'modern leadership practice' to make a decision, without consultation or adequate debate, then when it all goes 'pear shaped', vehemently defend that decision with all your might despite knowing it was a poorly conceived one. That appears to be the 'Olsen Way', doesn't it?

[RB]

The people on here who so vehemently despise the AFL sides entry into the SANFL want a competition that is played on an even playing field, even if that playing field has only 300 people watching it with no fence between the spectators and the players at a local park. They want the integrity restored, they want all sides playing to the line even if it proves to be the demise of the states highest club based competition. At least, they say, it will die with it's head in the air not on it's AFL knees.

Sometimes I think you need to be careful what you wish for.

Are you saying that the entry of the AFL sides have led to an increase in crowds, interest, etc. in the SANFL?

Before you answer that, perhaps you could have a look at the difference in average crowds between 2011-2013 and 2014-2016.

You could have particular regard to the crowds that the Port Magpies franchise attracted during these two time periods, remembering that they have been much more successful during these last three years, even winning the minor premiership in 2014.

Once you've cleared that up you could explain why you are of the view that the removal of the AFL sides would lead to the demise of the SANFL.

Are you struggling to understand my post?

Matt has been debating the merits or otherwise of the reserves inclusion with the punters on here, I just tried to sum up the sentiment of most for him. Read it again, if it helps, I stated that most on here would give up crowds if integrity was restored. The counter argument is crowds will increase if and when integrity is restored, neither party can be assured of the outcome of either result.

Now, to your comments, you don't need to be too clever to work out crowds have dropped and why. Would it lead to the demise of the SANFL? As noted above, perhaps, perhaps not but that's not ( again ) what I was saying to matt.

I get the point you are making to Matt about TRB, whose views I more or less share.

But your post reads as though you feel it's a truism that crowds would decline without the AFL teams. The fact that it's one-sided is why it reads this way.

It was equivocal until you said "Sometimes I think you need to be careful what you wish for." This sentence unambiguously reads (regardless of its author's intention) that you feel it would be highly risky to remove the AFL teams, a view which you're free to have but which flies in the face of what we've seen over the last three years.

[Booney]

I think it further dilutes an already diluted product and if you think the league gets sparse coverage now it would only further diminish.

Sure, people would return but would it be enough to counter the losses of bums on seats in the last 2 years?

[UK Fan]

I think it further dilutes an already diluted product and if you think the league gets sparse coverage now it would only further diminish.

Sure, people would return but would it be enough to counter the losses of bums on seats in the last 2 years?

Easy. Drop the admission price bring in marquee players and start playing shit INXS songs pregame.

A little bit of marketing and your away.

leave the sky is falling theories to those in the know.


Steven Trigg at afl reserves inception "without 100% support of the clubs this will not work"

At least he got that right

[mighty_tiger_79]

Bit disappointing hearing Brad Gotch last night saying the reserves teams are good for the league

[tipper]

I think it further dilutes an already diluted product and if you think the league gets sparse coverage now it would only further diminish.

Sure, people would return but would it be enough to counter the losses of bums on seats in the last 2 years?

it probably wouldnt be enough to return to pre reserves levels, however that is no reason not to do it. surely returning interest to the competition is better than stubbornly refusing to change and continuing the downhill slide? "lets not make a change to help the league as it only helps a little bit".....

and how does removing the reserves further dilute the league> i would suggest that it would condense what is left. more games for the real clubs, less byes (and we have all seen what a farce they have been this year) every club playing to the same rules and salary cap.

and diminish the coverage? how so? the tv deal is already on the chopping block, and anything in the advertiser is reserves side focused, and hardly read by anyone anyway. last i checked no one gets the tiser anymore anyway.

take it in house. most people get their news online now anyway, improve the news section on the sanfl site. real reviews of games, interviews with players and coaches. the clubs could get together and help each other. North gets the head, or assistant coach to preview the upcoming game, and their opposition does the same, and the videos can be posted on each others site (as long as North do something about their woeful attempt at a website...) fans get a glimpse from the opponents perspective. put a bit of effort into promoting themselves instead of relying on the msm as they previously have done. clearly that isnt working any more.

basically, get on the front foot for once and start trying to help themselves. at the moment they are just sitting idle expecting an external saviour after they actively took steps to hurt the comp. it wont work.

[heater31]

Bit disappointing hearing Brad Gotch last night saying the reserves teams are good for the league

From a players and coaching point of view he does have a point. Part time players taking on full-time players and beating them.....

[Magellan]

Bit disappointing hearing Brad Gotch last night saying the reserves teams are good for the league

Perhaps encouraged to offset Roy Laird's outburst from earlier in the week.

Or he's expressing his own genuine opinion. If an AFL pumped Crows reserves side barnstorms its way past South to the flag he might not share the same view come October, though.

[VALE PARK]

Like that Iraq general said a few years ago,
after the invasion.
'Everything is fine'!

[stan]

Like that Iraq general said a few years ago,
after the invasion.
'Everything is fine'!

He was the information minister and he was legend.

[Wedgie]

Giants beat the Swans in the NEAFL Grand Final today, that's what we've got to look forward to in the SANFL.

[Wedgie]

A genuine Crows fan just said to me said WTF is going on and it's ******. He said why don't the Crows and Power just play to the same salary cap as the SANFL sides. He said its destroying the SANFL and is unfair. It's good to know the Crows have one or two fans who seem reasonable as opposed to the plastic majority

[LPH]

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl ... cc2693435b

Err... hate to say we told you so