The V8s Grand Final!

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Postby Ian » Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:54 am

Sam_goUUUdogs wrote:but Ford has won the championsip the last 3 years with the equipment they had, and beaten who they had to there is no deniying that unfortunatley.


That 3 year period also coincides with the time that Ford decided to take the series seriously, as Holden and HRT had done for years. As soon as Ford put some money and development into cars, the series has evened up, even with Ford winning the last three championships, it still has not dominated the way HRT did prior to Ford's greater involvement, and other Holden teams have also been around the mark as well. The formula AVESCO have used was created to give close even racing, and that has certainly worked, with one of the closest race series in the world.

PS: congratulations to the Clipsal 500 for being the first race inducted into the motorsport hall of fame, the only downside to that is that the Clipsal is now ineligible to win the best race for 3 years.
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Postby Wedgie » Fri Dec 02, 2005 7:13 am

Ian wrote:
PS: congratulations to the Clipsal 500 for being the first race inducted into the motorsport hall of fame, the only downside to that is that the Clipsal is now ineligible to win the best race for 3 years.


Good to see the Clipsal is deemed to be more of a legend than Bathurst.
Hopefully that will stop the dribble (good word Ian!) of some people saying how important Bathurst is, Adelaide's race is now OFFICIALLY more important!
Go SA! :D

PS lol@Chev fans complaining about weight, modifications, etc, feel free to extend your memory prior to the late 90s. If you want to see how the Commodores and Falcons would do with less modifications feel free to have a look at the results (or should I say total domination) by Ford in the Development Series.
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Postby RoostersRuleTheWorld ! » Fri Dec 02, 2005 10:47 am

Funny all these so called ford supporters all come at the woodwork in the last couple of years aint it,
and saying now they are so much better !
At least HOLDEN never stopped making v8s !
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Postby Sam_goUUUdogs » Fri Dec 02, 2005 10:50 am

Clipsal is the best event, but Bathurst is still the big race of the yar without a doubt, the atmosphere and support catogories @ Clipsal are 100X better than any other event on the calander.

and here are the main changes of Project BluePrint.

- Holden's old Chev 5.0L engine was done away with, due to some component of the fuel intake system being inferior to the Ford engine's design. Basically, this would have already given the HMS engines more horsepower than the old Chev engines.

- Holden also gave up the McPherson Strut front suspension. Once again, in theory, this should eventually benefit Holden, as the Double Wishbone suspension is technically superior.

- Same rear wing for both cars ( Both cars already had the Holden undertray from the middle of 2002). This was tested in a wind tunnel.

- Seating position was made the same for both cars.

- Aero (drag) testing was apparently done at Avalon airport.

- The wings (and their position, I believe) were wind tunnel tested.

All in all, this could have potentially benefited Holden. But here are where the problems lie:

- Holden had to "map" a totally new engine, and learn how to get all that "new" horsepower out of it. Basically, engines are more "torquey" at certain RPM combined with certain amounts of fuel input. For example, if your engine hasn't been tuned and/or mapped properly, the engine might be sluggish in low revs (so you need to give it more accelerator), and then the car suddenly break into wheelspin as you pick up the revs (and the problem is multiplied by the extra fuel you're squirting into the engine). It's a similar problem on brakes, because if the amount of engine braking power being supplied is not smooth during your braking approach, it's easy to lock a wheel, or turn the car around (like Skaife has done so many times recently).

In short, Holden are only just starting to get on top of the new engine's setup and mapping. Ford, on the other hand, have been using the same engine for the past eight years or so, so they already have it sorted a lot better.

- The loss of the McPherson Strut has complicated things further, as the strut setup had it's advantages, apparently suited to tight corners (where, of course, most overtaking is done). Holden had this suspension pretty well sorted. Now, however, they've had to go back to the drawing board when it comes to setting up their suspension for each track, as their cars now react totally differently to corners, and the only way to do a fast lap is to set their cars up similar to the way Ford had done so for the past four years or so.

- That said, the change in wing position probably unsettled both manufacturers initially.

Basically, Holden is playing catch-up, but HRT have already show that they're getting there. Larry Perkins Motorsport, on the other hand, are further behind the eight-ball, as they waited as long as possible to start producing cars according to the "Project Blueprint" specifications.

so its all designed to make the series more even, and the reason its getting more and more even each year, is becouse Holden are getting their equipment closer to the mark each race, but as you can see there was alot they had to do that Ford didnt.
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Postby Wedgie » Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:56 pm

More importantly:

2005 Champion Ford
2004 Champion Ford
2003 Champion Ford

1st 3 2005:
Ford

Ford
Ford

2005 Manufacturers Champion:
Ford

Car dominating the development the Development series in recent years (ie fairer comparison between the 2 road vehicles).
Ford Ford Ford

Car company that's racked up a few Cars of the Year in recent times:
Ford

Only car where people over 6 foot can be comfortable:
Ford (I make an exception for 2004 Crumpledores onwards, good to see it only took them 36 years longer than Ford to stop catering for midgets)

Favoured car of the unemployed (ie most likely to have a pack of Winny Blues on the dash):
holden

Can't win them all. And no crap arguments about Holden being good because they sell more, its only because they fall apart quicker and their owners have to upgrade more often. :lol:

End of story. Cya in 2006. :D
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Postby Sam_goUUUdogs » Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:58 pm

Wedgie wrote:
Only car where people over 6 foot can be comfortable:
Ford (I make an exception for 2004 Crumpledores onwards, good to see it only took them 36 years longer than Ford to stop catering for midgets)



nah, i rekon there is more room in my VN than in the ford laser i drove. :lol:
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Postby Wedgie » Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:03 pm

Sam_goUUUdogs wrote:
nah, i rekon there is more room in my VN than in the ford laser i drove. :lol:


Not sure what Laser it was but Mrs Wedgie's 84 Laser used to have more room to move for the driver than any pre 2004 Commodore I've been in.
Seriously.

Just to prove I'm on the up and not just Pro Ford I must admit when I drove a new Commodore Executive around Qld in August it was the first care I've been in in my life that I didn't need the seat right back, as I said, its sad it took them so many years to get it right, some of the mid - late 90s Commodores gave me bruises on various parts of my legs every time I had to get in one, shocking little small mans's cars. :evil:
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Postby Sam_goUUUdogs » Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:07 pm

I would say tht 2004 commodore would be similar to my parents 2003 VY commodore, and yes they have alot more room than my 1990 commodore, but my car still has a shitload more room than my friends little jap cars, thats why i have a few of them wanting me to get them commodores now. :lol:
The Laser was a 2002 laser, in the back seat of an 86 laser (i think it was) its fairly small compared to any commodore in the back, but i spose thats what you would expect with a small car compared to a family car.

im also finding that the newer commodores (and all newer holdens for that matter) may not have more room but they are just using it alot better, for example you can change the height of the seat in new holdens alot easier and more precise than in the older ones and that makes a huge diffrence, probably makes more of a diffrence than putting the seat back.
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Postby Wedgie » Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:44 pm

I agree with what you say about the new Holden's using space in a smart way, I think in the late 90s they were obsessed with creating a plane like cockpit which you snuggled into, give me more room to move anyday.
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