SA Footy

morell wrote:Yeah but when I was younger saying "bloody" or "shit" in front of adults was considered heinous. Back when my mum was young "bugger" was a terrible word. Back when her mum was young she couldn't wear a bathing suit in public!

Point is, society and it's standards change over time. It is the role of the youth of the day to push those limits, test them and alter them to their needs. The issue is that as you get older you keep your own set of standards but society has moved on.

So its not that kids today are bad, they're just matching and pushing the line, just as we all did when we were younger, just as your parents did when they were younger. The issue you have with kids these days has nothing to do with the actual kids, it is in fact reflected in your bathroom mirror.

That's an interesting way to look at it, and does make sense, but it's also not the kids pushing the limits it's people in society who say what is right or wrong, tell people how they should be parents or disciplining kids etc. It's a legal system that gives a kid a million chances, an education system that doesn't care if they can't spell their own name and a bunch of "experts" who disapprove of things like smacking.

Phantom Gossiper wrote:

morell wrote:Yeah but when I was younger saying "bloody" or "shit" in front of adults was considered heinous. Back when my mum was young "bugger" was a terrible word. Back when her mum was young she couldn't wear a bathing suit in public!

Point is, society and it's standards change over time. It is the role of the youth of the day to push those limits, test them and alter them to their needs. The issue is that as you get older you keep your own set of standards but society has moved on.

So its not that kids today are bad, they're just matching and pushing the line, just as we all did when we were younger, just as your parents did when they were younger. The issue you have with kids these days has nothing to do with the actual kids, it is in fact reflected in your bathroom mirror.

That's an interesting way to look at it, and does make sense, but it's also not the kids pushing the limits it's people in society who say what is right or wrong, tell people how they should be parents or disciplining kids etc. It's a legal system that gives a kid a million chances, an education system that doesn't care if they can't spell their own name and a bunch of "experts" who disapprove of things like smacking.

I'm still trying to figure out why people are questioning the poor behaviour of 17-18 year olds on a football field or where ever for that matter.
Have a look at the adults going around.
No shortage of dumb mother chuckers player senior footy on a weekend.

the sad fact is..is that it needs to be stamped out early.

the other sad fact is that some people should been drowned at birth. unfortunately that's illegal.

environment > genetics

personality traits are inherited through observed behaviour

morell wrote:Yeah but when I was younger saying "bloody" or "shit" in front of adults was considered heinous. Back when my mum was young "bugger" was a terrible word. Back when her mum was young she couldn't wear a bathing suit in public!

Point is, society and it's standards change over time. It is the role of the youth of the day to push those limits, test them and alter them to their needs. The issue is that as you get older you keep your own set of standards but society has moved on.

So its not that kids today are bad, they're just matching and pushing the line, just as we all did when we were younger, just as your parents did when they were younger. The issue you have with kids these days has nothing to do with the actual kids, it is in fact reflected in your bathroom mirror.

FC was right about different standards say /30 years ago. Now the "brats" know parents, teachers, cops, can't touch them. Even to the point there is a question if being sent to the naughty corner is right of a kids human rights. It's open season for some kids to "push the limits" as you say. Good parenting or bad parenting will go on regardless, but the kids who don't understand anything about civility and respect early on in life will have difficulty differentiating between right and wrong for most of their lives IMO.....

Q. wrote:environment > genetics

personality traits are inherited through observed behaviour

Given genetics plays a part but now it's just a small part

I knew enough that if i gave my mother any lip, I'd cop a backhander or a sore ass from the wooden stick

Now the kids say "you can't touch me"

It's the effing do-gooders that gave kids rights that's made kids like they are. This is also the reason I chose not to finish my teaching degree way back then.

Thats the thing though PG, Cohiba and FC, your parents were probably saying exactly the same things about you! Maybe not on the internet because, well, that hadn't been invented in the roaring 50's ( ) but every generation has had the same complaints

I agree with Q...you are a product of your environment

There is no way we would be having this discussion on the SANFL forum for U18s. I have watched about 50 SANFL U18 games over the past 3 years and in that time I have only seen two players reported. Lack of discipline is just not tolerated. One of those two boys who was reported was quickly sent packing. So, do the U18 SANFL boys have any less testosterone than the U18 SAAFL boys...I doubt it. The SANFL environment preaches discipline, strong values and work ethic and achieves excellent results. I'm sure there are some SAAFL clubs that are not far behind SANFL in the way they run and support their U18s and I'm sure these are the clubs that don't have kids tripping up to the tribunals. On the other hand I'm also sure there are some SAAFL clubs that are way behind and as a result we end up devoting a thread to them.

“Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.”

Socrates was the first one who has the problem FC etc. are alluding to.

Senor Moto Gadili wrote:I agree with Q...you are a product of your environment

There is no way we would be having this discussion on the SANFL forum for U18s. I have watched about 50 SANFL U18 games over the past 3 years and in that time I have only seen two players reported. Lack of discipline is just not tolerated. One of those two boys who was reported was quickly sent packing. So, do the U18 SANFL boys have any less testosterone than the U18 SAAFL boys...I doubt it. The SANFL environment preaches discipline, strong values and work ethic and achieves excellent results. I'm sure there are some SAAFL clubs that are not far behind SANFL in the way they run and support their U18s and I'm sure these are the clubs that don't have kids tripping up to the tribunals. On the other hand I'm also sure there are some SAAFL clubs that are way behind and as a result we end up devoting a thread to them.

Excellent post! In a developing elite environment if you don't tow the line then you are shown the door very quickly. Poor discipline either on field (getting reported & suspended) or off (preparation or injury rehabilitation) is not at all tolerated as it creates poor club culture and generally a cap environment to be around.

Senor Moto Gadili wrote:I agree with Q...you are a product of your environment

There is no way we would be having this discussion on the SANFL forum for U18s. I have watched about 50 SANFL U18 games over the past 3 years and in that time I have only seen two players reported. Lack of discipline is just not tolerated. One of those two boys who was reported was quickly sent packing. So, do the U18 SANFL boys have any less testosterone than the U18 SAAFL boys...I doubt it. The SANFL environment preaches discipline, strong values and work ethic and achieves excellent results. I'm sure there are some SAAFL clubs that are not far behind SANFL in the way they run and support their U18s and I'm sure these are the clubs that don't have kids tripping up to the tribunals. On the other hand I'm also sure there are some SAAFL clubs that are way behind and as a result we end up devoting a thread to them.

Comparing the SANFL under 18s to SAAFL under 18s is not fair, though.
The SANFL under 18s are a destination and for kids an opportunity to take the next step. You are there because someone thinks you're talented.
SAAFL under 18s are there because they're having a kick and a catch, and maybe some will progress, and their clubs find it hard enough to get players without pushing the level of discipline the SANFL kids have.

Cohiba wrote:

morell wrote:Yeah but when I was younger saying "bloody" or "shit" in front of adults was considered heinous. Back when my mum was young "bugger" was a terrible word. Back when her mum was young she couldn't wear a bathing suit in public!

Point is, society and it's standards change over time. It is the role of the youth of the day to push those limits, test them and alter them to their needs. The issue is that as you get older you keep your own set of standards but society has moved on.

So its not that kids today are bad, they're just matching and pushing the line, just as we all did when we were younger, just as your parents did when they were younger. The issue you have with kids these days has nothing to do with the actual kids, it is in fact reflected in your bathroom mirror.

FC was right about different standards say /30 years ago. Now the "brats" know parents, teachers, cops, can't touch them. Even to the point there is a question if being sent to the naughty corner is right of a kids human rights. It's open season for some kids to "push the limits" as you say. Good parenting or bad parenting will go on regardless, but the kids who don't understand anything about civility and respect early on in life will have difficulty differentiating between right and wrong for most of their lives IMO.....

Being able to give the kids a smack has nothing to do with it.
If you provide discipline and are consistent in your treatment of the kids, set standards, you will be better off.
If you are in a position where kids know you "can't touch them", you've probably not done the right thing in the early standards of your parenting.
You shouldn't have to hit kids for them to know they've done the wrong thing and breached your expectations.
That's my belief, others will have different opinions.

I bet you've got a glare of the gods DW

Q. wrote:I bet you've got a glare of the gods DW

No, I don't. But my wife does.

This will sound very pious, but I take my role as a parent very seriously. I love my kids and I know that they will love me back, because I've shown them respect, even at their young age.
Not all parents do.

Phantom Gossiper wrote:

morell wrote:Yeah but when I was younger saying "bloody" or "shit" in front of adults was considered heinous. Back when my mum was young "bugger" was a terrible word. Back when her mum was young she couldn't wear a bathing suit in public!

Point is, society and it's standards change over time. It is the role of the youth of the day to push those limits, test them and alter them to their needs. The issue is that as you get older you keep your own set of standards but society has moved on.

So its not that kids today are bad, they're just matching and pushing the line, just as we all did when we were younger, just as your parents did when they were younger. The issue you have with kids these days has nothing to do with the actual kids, it is in fact reflected in your bathroom mirror.

That's an interesting way to look at it, and does make sense, but it's also not the kids pushing the limits it's people in society who say what is right or wrong, tell people how they should be parents or disciplining kids etc. It's a legal system that gives a kid a million chances, an education system that doesn't care if they can't spell their own name and a bunch of "experts" who disapprove of things like smacking.

Damn those "experts" with their "education" and "research" and "science".

Dogwatcher wrote:
SAAFL under 18s are there because they're having a kick and a catch, .

Doesnt give them any excuse to punch people in the head.

Footy Chick wrote:

Dogwatcher wrote:
SAAFL under 18s are there because they're having a kick and a catch, .

Doesnt give them any excuse to punch people in the head.

I didn't say that. What I'm saying is that kids are at the two levels for different reasons. That's why its unfair to compare.

Dogwatcher wrote:

Senor Moto Gadili wrote:I agree with Q...you are a product of your environment

There is no way we would be having this discussion on the SANFL forum for U18s. I have watched about 50 SANFL U18 games over the past 3 years and in that time I have only seen two players reported. Lack of discipline is just not tolerated. One of those two boys who was reported was quickly sent packing. So, do the U18 SANFL boys have any less testosterone than the U18 SAAFL boys...I doubt it. The SANFL environment preaches discipline, strong values and work ethic and achieves excellent results. I'm sure there are some SAAFL clubs that are not far behind SANFL in the way they run and support their U18s and I'm sure these are the clubs that don't have kids tripping up to the tribunals. On the other hand I'm also sure there are some SAAFL clubs that are way behind and as a result we end up devoting a thread to them.

Comparing the SANFL under 18s to SAAFL under 18s is not fair, though.
The SANFL under 18s are a destination and for kids an opportunity to take the next step. You are there because someone thinks you're talented.
SAAFL under 18s are there because they're having a kick and a catch, and maybe some will progress, and their clubs find it hard enough to get players without pushing the level of discipline the SANFL kids have.

OK, don't compare SANFL to SAAFL, compare the SAAFL clubs who have U18s. Not every SAAFL has had an U18 player up before the tribunal over the past two years. Take a look at the clubs that haven't had any players report and I bet they have an evironment that preaches discipline, strong values and work ethic. You are a product of your club's environment and if the club fails the player the player will fail the club.

Dogwatcher wrote:

Cohiba wrote:

morell wrote:Yeah but when I was younger saying "bloody" or "shit" in front of adults was considered heinous. Back when my mum was young "bugger" was a terrible word. Back when her mum was young she couldn't wear a bathing suit in public!

Point is, society and it's standards change over time. It is the role of the youth of the day to push those limits, test them and alter them to their needs. The issue is that as you get older you keep your own set of standards but society has moved on.

So its not that kids today are bad, they're just matching and pushing the line, just as we all did when we were younger, just as your parents did when they were younger. The issue you have with kids these days has nothing to do with the actual kids, it is in fact reflected in your bathroom mirror.

FC was right about different standards say /30 years ago. Now the "brats" know parents, teachers, cops, can't touch them. Even to the point there is a question if being sent to the naughty corner is right of a kids human rights. It's open season for some kids to "push the limits" as you say. Good parenting or bad parenting will go on regardless, but the kids who don't understand anything about civility and respect early on in life will have difficulty differentiating between right and wrong for most of their lives IMO.....

Being able to give the kids a smack has nothing to do with it.
If you provide discipline and are consistent in your treatment of the kids, set standards, you will be better off.
If you are in a position where kids know you "can't touch them", you've probably not done the right thing in the early standards of your parenting.
You shouldn't have to hit kids for them to know they've done the wrong thing and breached your expectations.
That's my belief, others will have different opinions.

Sounds like you might have copped the odd whack DW you bad boy .....because I said nothing about smacking .........only that good parenting and bad parenting will prevail. And in respect to providing discipline....is not reasonable to think some parents might see that as a form of discipline rightly or wrongly and by degree. Some approve, some dont'. It's for them to decide and the consequences of that will sit on their shoulders.

And Q's comment regarding personality traits. They are not inherited. Nobody is born with the compulsion to whack someone or swear verbatim. Personalities are developed through lessons and observations within the environs of a person growing up.

I took "can't touch them" to mean smack, I apologise.

However, my points still stand as 'whacking them' has been mentioned elsewhere in this thread and will always be mentioned in these topics.

And, yes, I did cop the occasional whack on the arse with a thong. It did me no harm, but these are also different times.
I also remember copping a slap across the face from my mum in the middle of a shopping centre when I was about 14 - I don't count that as punishment, that was just for being an arsehole and disrespectful.