SA Footy

I do a bit of work in this space, the “hobbyist “ payment is so grey that it looks like Santa Clauses beard.

A senior accountant I know says there is technically no such thing as a hobbyist payment however there is a downloadable form that can be filled in to avoid any tax. I think it’s a $4k a year maximum

Nobody ever fills it in

wenchbarwer wrote:https://www.mondaq.com/australia/contract-of-employment/972202/payg-withholding--should-amateur-sporting-clubs-be-withholding-tax-from-match-payments-they-make-to-players

Interesting read, seems there's lots of grey areas

That’s exactly why I mentioned to be careful what you wish for.

The bigger issue in my opinion would be the potential of money laundering. Having a $ cap isn’t a bad thing in that sense as it keeps most somewhat inline.

I hear a group of concerned members have written to Justice David to ask sentencing be put off.

Apparently Rosella’s resignation only comes into effect Tuesday at midnight (after the sentencing process).

I haven’t fact checked any of this but having the resignation take effect straight after the hearing is very concerning.

tigerpie wrote:I find a $300 000 fine an exercise in futility . There's no way they are paying that back.
They'd struggle to pay back $30 000 by the sounds.
SANFL would need to suspend $300 000 of it which is a joke.
The monetary penalty has to be smaller but on field bigger.
Zero points for 5 years and sent to the lowest grade possible.
President, treasurer to be banned from holding office for ever.
If SANFL want to get really serious criminal penalties for players and officials.

I haven’t read further down, and I’m not a footy administrator, but let’s be clear; the fine equals the breach

Jimmy_041 wrote:

tigerpie wrote:I find a $300 000 fine an exercise in futility . There's no way they are paying that back.
They'd struggle to pay back $30 000 by the sounds.
SANFL would need to suspend $300 000 of it which is a joke.
The monetary penalty has to be smaller but on field bigger.
Zero points for 5 years and sent to the lowest grade possible.
President, treasurer to be banned from holding office for ever.
If SANFL want to get really serious criminal penalties for players and officials.

I haven’t read further down, and I’m not a footy administrator, but let’s be clear; the fine equals the breach

So shut the doors Jimmy?

Jimmy_041 wrote:

tigerpie wrote:I find a $300 000 fine an exercise in futility . There's no way they are paying that back.
They'd struggle to pay back $30 000 by the sounds.
SANFL would need to suspend $300 000 of it which is a joke.
The monetary penalty has to be smaller but on field bigger.
Zero points for 5 years and sent to the lowest grade possible.
President, treasurer to be banned from holding office for ever.
If SANFL want to get really serious criminal penalties for players and officials.

I haven’t read further down, and I’m not a footy administrator, but let’s be clear; the fine equals the breach

That's fair enough in one sense but the reality is that the strife the club is now in off-field you wouldn't think they are currently in a position to pay what they were paying at the time of the breaches.

They will be doing a great job to have 1 senior team and have the doors open on a Saturday never mind pay back $300k.

I get its there fault they are now in this position.

I think having them languish in div 7 relying purely on juniors with no recruiting power is probably a fairer penalty.

This is the SANFL ruling this decision, not the SAAFL. The SANFL cant demand clubs be put in certain divisions otherwise what the hell is the point of having an administration in place at SAAFL HQ. Just throwing them in to D5, D6 or D7 isn’t an option unless the club comes to an agreement with the SAAFL (Completely different discussion). Let’s put it in to context if the same thing happened in a league with only one division - You don’t have that option and it creates an unfair process.

They have been found guilty and admitted to it in a tribunal - The way some on here are talking they are talking about this being a courtroom. You can’t bend the rules as it creates uncertainty over the whole system.

They had their chance to fess up and ignored it.
Get what you deserve.
Harsh? Yes maybe but penalties are a deterrent for them and others who are thinking about doing similar

tigerpie wrote:If SANFL want to get really serious criminal penalties for players and officials.

I would think making them pay back what they owe and deal with the penalties - even if it is a said "death penalty" shows they're pretty bloody serious.

There has been more times than I care to remember over the years when people have vehemently called for clubs to be booted from competition.

Salisbury West no longer exist.. Smithfield for a while copped plenty.. Central United for a bit.. Ingle Farm every time something happens... kick em out! Hell remember when the former Ingle Farm Chairman pulled the sides and used covid as an excuse? Every man and their dog wanted the club pulled down brick by brick FFS!

Granted all these clubs have messed up and weren't innocent in those times, but there was no sympathy or remorse for the "good people" at those clubs who were affected or going to be affected by it all.

Gaza have rorted the system and broke the rules for the best part of half a decade - they've potentially cost other clubs finals spots, grand final spots and promotions.. they lied and denied it.. the didn't cooperate.. They broke the rules and they deserve everything that comes their way. In fact I'd be surprised if it's only the last few years its occured.

The Bedge wrote:There has been more times than I care to remember over the years when people have vehemently called for clubs to be booted from competition.

Salisbury West no longer exist.. Smithfield for a while copped plenty.. Central United for a bit.. Ingle Farm every time something happens... kick em out! Hell remember when the former Ingle Farm Chairman pulled the sides and used covid as an excuse? Every man and their dog wanted the club pulled down brick by brick FFS!

Granted all these clubs have messed up and weren't innocent in those times, but there was no sympathy or remorse for the "good people" at those clubs who were affected or going to be affected by it all.

Gaza have rorted the system and broke the rules for the best part of half a decade - they've potentially cost other clubs finals spots, grand final spots and promotions.. they lied and denied it.. the didn't cooperate.. They broke the rules and they deserve everything that comes their way. In fact I'd be surprised if it's only the last few years its occured.

I agree, penalise the shit out of them but make the financial recompense more realistic so at least whoever the money goes to gets it.
Who gets the $300 000?

tigerpie wrote:Who gets the $300 000?

Would look nice in my bank account!

For what it's worth, I don't think they'll be fined the entire $300k

I agree with bedge, they should be smashed.

Oh, and as for all the comments saying $300k is fine no club could pay... GAZA managed to find that much money to pay over the cap by that amount, so if they want to stay alive, they can find that amount of money to pay the fine and still exist.

A 300k fine doesn't kill them. What will kill them is if they decide its all too hard and they make the choice to walk away.

Seriously Tigerpie - criminal penalties!!! Have you been smoking those grass clippings again!

Our courts struggle to penalise real criminals let alone adding another layer to what is considered criminal activity. I think the SANFL and Community Football Board have handled these cases fairly well and dished out penalties that pass the pub test. Gaza is a whole new level of offences so will be interesting what the final wash-up is.

But the SANFL can only deal with the cases that come before them which have mostly been whistleblower cases. Even most or all the Gaza offences could have stayed under the carpet forever if not for disgruntled ex-player(s).

Down the Hill wrote:Seriously Tigerpie - criminal penalties!!! Have you been smoking those grass clippings again!

Our courts struggle to penalise real criminals let alone adding another layer to what is considered criminal activity. I think the SANFL and Community Football Board have handled these cases fairly well and dished out penalties that pass the pub test. Gaza is a whole new level of offences so will be interesting what the final wash-up is.

But the SANFL can only deal with the cases that come before them which have mostly been whistleblower cases. Even most or all the Gaza offences could have stayed under the carpet forever if not for disgruntled ex-player(s).

Given up smoking!
We all know or there's rumours of clubs fiddling the books for years.
Some still push the envelope (pardon the pun).
If you want to take away any temptation then legal ramifications will do it.

tigerpie wrote:

Jimmy_041 wrote:

tigerpie wrote:I find a $300 000 fine an exercise in futility . There's no way they are paying that back.
They'd struggle to pay back $30 000 by the sounds.
SANFL would need to suspend $300 000 of it which is a joke.
The monetary penalty has to be smaller but on field bigger.
Zero points for 5 years and sent to the lowest grade possible.
President, treasurer to be banned from holding office for ever.
If SANFL want to get really serious criminal penalties for players and officials.

I haven’t read further down, and I’m not a footy administrator, but let’s be clear; the fine equals the breach

So shut the doors Jimmy?

Well, they’ll have to, anyway, if they’re insolvent

I’ll make it clearer:
They paid $380k over the allowance & the CFL rules say the penalty shall be the same amount.
The extent of those penalties is to be a deterrence to others. It obviously didn’t work with the previous clubs
My understanding is the club voted to back the President & defend
Using the media to deny and defend and then admit it in the face of overwhelming evidence & you reckon they should be shown mercy?

Turning to the argument of club v perpetrators.
Everyone has now accepted that the prime responsibility for the behaviour of players / supporters sits with the club; not the League. How is this any different?
The Corporations Act places onerous responsibilities on directors of companies AND incorporated bodies like Gaza Sport & Social Club Inc
Those responsibilities are joint & several.
This is not about 1 or 2 officials in the club breaching a CFL Rule.
It’s about proper governance & your legal responsibilities as a director.
To me: the Gaza SSC officers have more to worry about than this fine.
If they are insolvent, they will be treated like directors of any insolvent company
I’d be more worried about losing my house & personal bankruptcy than anything else at the moment
Shrek is right - I’d be getting independent legal advice ASAP

As for those that signed statutory declarations, they have additional legal problems to deal with

tigerpie wrote:

Down the Hill wrote:Seriously Tigerpie - criminal penalties!!! Have you been smoking those grass clippings again!

Our courts struggle to penalise real criminals let alone adding another layer to what is considered criminal activity. I think the SANFL and Community Football Board have handled these cases fairly well and dished out penalties that pass the pub test. Gaza is a whole new level of offences so will be interesting what the final wash-up is.

But the SANFL can only deal with the cases that come before them which have mostly been whistleblower cases. Even most or all the Gaza offences could have stayed under the carpet forever if not for disgruntled ex-player(s).

Given up smoking!
We all know or there's rumours of clubs fiddling the books for years.
Some still push the envelope (pardon the pun).
If you want to take away any temptation then legal ramifications will do it.

If it was only that simple…

LaughingKookaburra wrote:

tigerpie wrote:

Down the Hill wrote:Seriously Tigerpie - criminal penalties!!! Have you been smoking those grass clippings again!

Our courts struggle to penalise real criminals let alone adding another layer to what is considered criminal activity. I think the SANFL and Community Football Board have handled these cases fairly well and dished out penalties that pass the pub test. Gaza is a whole new level of offences so will be interesting what the final wash-up is.

But the SANFL can only deal with the cases that come before them which have mostly been whistleblower cases. Even most or all the Gaza offences could have stayed under the carpet forever if not for disgruntled ex-player(s).

Given up smoking!
We all know or there's rumours of clubs fiddling the books for years.
Some still push the envelope (pardon the pun).
If you want to take away any temptation then legal ramifications will do it.

If it was only that simple…

Hmmmm criminal conviction versus paying a mercenary more than they're worth.
Easy answer.

tigerpie wrote:

LaughingKookaburra wrote:

tigerpie wrote:

Down the Hill wrote:Seriously Tigerpie - criminal penalties!!! Have you been smoking those grass clippings again!

Our courts struggle to penalise real criminals let alone adding another layer to what is considered criminal activity. I think the SANFL and Community Football Board have handled these cases fairly well and dished out penalties that pass the pub test. Gaza is a whole new level of offences so will be interesting what the final wash-up is.

But the SANFL can only deal with the cases that come before them which have mostly been whistleblower cases. Even most or all the Gaza offences could have stayed under the carpet forever if not for disgruntled ex-player(s).

Given up smoking!
We all know or there's rumours of clubs fiddling the books for years.
Some still push the envelope (pardon the pun).
If you want to take away any temptation then legal ramifications will do it.

If it was only that simple…

Hmmmm criminal conviction versus paying a mercenary more than they're worth.
Easy answer.

Probably needs to be a law to convict them all in the first place, on top of that then it would require another layer to police it ect. It’s not as easy as convicting them in a Kangaroo Court then throwing stones at them in their way to an already over crowed prison with genuine criminals.

At the very least the fine should = the cost of SANFL's legal fees, which would be adding up even more since they challenged the findings. These are $'s taken out of a not for profit organisation and could be used far better to support football in this state. Anyone associated with footy in SA would be filthy if thousands of dollars paid to Lawyers aren't at least recovered.