Which grade clubs should go?

Local cricket is the go here. Any talk about local comps, grade cricket, etc.

Which six grade clubs should merge?

Poll ended at Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:03 pm

Adelaide
10
11%
East Torrens
2
2%
Glenelg
3
3%
Kensington
1
1%
Northern Districts
3
3%
Port Adelaide
10
11%
Prospect
13
15%
Southern District
10
11%
Sturt
2
2%
Tea Tree Gully
3
3%
University
11
13%
West Torrens
7
8%
Woodville
13
15%
 
Total votes : 88

Which grade clubs should go?

Postby Tony Clifton » Sun Dec 05, 2021 3:03 pm

How many reviews have there been saying that there are too many clubs? How many dismal Redbacks seasons? How many grade games finishing hours early with one team comprehensively spanked?

Three mergers. Ten team competition. Six weak clubs become three strong clubs.

So which six clubs need to go?
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Re: Which grade clubs should go?

Postby Aerie » Sun Dec 05, 2021 3:22 pm

East Torrens/Kensington (after all, Kensington were originally a break off from East Torrens)
Prospect/Port Adelaide/University (a combination of wooden spoons and silver spoons, this merger is black and white)
West Torrens/Woodville (the greatest footy club on the planet proves this can work - they just need to prioritise the strongest clubs name first this time)
Glenelg/Southern District (Glenelg represents south better than, say Adelaide, plus I’m sure they’d gladly handover the SeaHorses logo to become the Stingrays)
Sturt/Adelaide (the closest clubs, in terms of distance, in the comp)
Northern Districts/Tea Tree Gully (they already had a merger of the womens teams didn’t they? Again, location makes sense).

6 team comp. Every club is merged. No favourites. If it’s good enough for Sheffield Shield to have a 6 team comp it’s good enough for Adelaide.
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Re: Which grade clubs should go?

Postby gadj1976 » Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:22 pm

I'm a dad of a 12 yo lad who is slowly progressing through the bottom ages of district cricket, albeit through development squads.

He is an average kid in an average grade - and I'm not being defamatory about either, just saying he's not a star by all means. But what I've seen by way of tryouts and development squads makes me think that the top level is suffering because of the junior system underneath.

To be honest, I don't thing there is any 'development' at all. He is in a development squad and what I have seen is the coaches say "good shot" in the nets but nothing about technique, nothing about poor shot selection, nothing about building innings, nothing about partnerships, nothing about putting pressure on the bat by bowling consecutive maiden overs. Maybe that will come as he progresses. I don' t know. All I know is that when I speak to other district clubs at the same age group, all the parents say the same thing, it's very ordinarily managed. At our club, there is a disconnect between the development squad and the coaches at the next level. So when my son was selected at the next level, there wasn't any consideration for his batting position, fielding position, bowling position.

So, in summary, SACA need to install a policy/guideline about how the coaches need to 'coach' as a group. We as parents sit back and look at the juniors and then look at how SACA perform and marry the two up. It's disgracefully organised and shows through the grades right up to SACA level.

I should say that opposition clubs have called out a couple of clubs that have been exemplary in their organisation but unfortunately this isn't the norm.

I should add, before my son started trying out for district, i was of the same mind, that teams need to merge. Now, I'm not so sure that will fix anything.
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Re: Which grade clubs should go?

Postby heater31 » Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:55 pm

gadj1976 wrote:So, in summary, SACA need to install a policy/guideline about how the coaches need to 'coach' as a group. We as parents sit back and look at the juniors and then look at how SACA perform and marry the two up. It's disgracefully organised and shows through the grades right up to SACA level.


That won't help either.....SACA once had a coach on the books that had played at the highest level. His go to teaching for batting....was to plant your front foot down the wicket and swing as hard as possible!
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Re: Which grade clubs should go?

Postby caleb777 » Sun Dec 05, 2021 8:39 pm

gadj1976 wrote:I'm a dad of a 12 yo lad who is slowly progressing through the bottom ages of district cricket, albeit through development squads.

He is an average kid in an average grade - and I'm not being defamatory about either, just saying he's not a star by all means. But what I've seen by way of tryouts and development squads makes me think that the top level is suffering because of the junior system underneath.

To be honest, I don't thing there is any 'development' at all. He is in a development squad and what I have seen is the coaches say "good shot" in the nets but nothing about technique, nothing about poor shot selection, nothing about building innings, nothing about partnerships, nothing about putting pressure on the bat by bowling consecutive maiden overs. Maybe that will come as he progresses. I don' t know. All I know is that when I speak to other district clubs at the same age group, all the parents say the same thing, it's very ordinarily managed. At our club, there is a disconnect between the development squad and the coaches at the next level. So when my son was selected at the next level, there wasn't any consideration for his batting position, fielding position, bowling position.

So, in summary, SACA need to install a policy/guideline about how the coaches need to 'coach' as a group. We as parents sit back and look at the juniors and then look at how SACA perform and marry the two up. It's disgracefully organised and shows through the grades right up to SACA level.

I should say that opposition clubs have called out a couple of clubs that have been exemplary in their organisation but unfortunately this isn't the norm.

I should add, before my son started trying out for district, i was of the same mind, that teams need to merge. Now, I'm not so sure that will fix anything.


Having been involved in coaching at the local level up in the hills i find this seriously concerning. Your son would get better coaching at nearly any of the junior clubs in the local league in the Adelaide Hills.

FWIW my vote for the mergers was as follows:

Southern/Glenelg - However base the club at Noarlunga and align them closely with the South Adelaide Panthers. That way everyone can benefit from the facilities. You cant lose the largest population and their access to cricket. There are incredibly strong cricket clubs in the southern area and if southern was allowed to die than that would be a real shame.

University/Prospect - Uni shouldnt be in the District system at all. They contribute nothing to junior cricket in the state and if they dont merge should piss off to turf.

Woodville/Port - similar siutation to Southern in that Port struggle for quality in almost every grade except the a grade. Merging port and woodville makes sense geographically.

In the end none of this will happen because too many clubs arent looking out for whats best for cricket in this state and only think of themselves.
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Re: Which grade clubs should go?

Postby daysofourlives » Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:14 pm

heater31 wrote:
gadj1976 wrote:So, in summary, SACA need to install a policy/guideline about how the coaches need to 'coach' as a group. We as parents sit back and look at the juniors and then look at how SACA perform and marry the two up. It's disgracefully organised and shows through the grades right up to SACA level.


That won't help either.....SACA once had a coach on the books that had played at the highest level. His go to teaching for batting....was to plant your front foot down the wicket and swing as hard as possible!


Siddons? If it was im pretty sure this thought process is backed by SACA, the whole organisation is run by muppets with muppets in development roles
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Re: Which grade clubs should go?

Postby cokadonkeytoo » Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:36 pm

Junior cricket has been on a decline for probably the last 8-10 years. Cricket in this state will be in a terrible way if things aren't addressed now. Grade clubs need to look at their junior coaching structures and maybe put more money and resources into that. After all, they are the future of the club!
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Re: Which grade clubs should go?

Postby whufc » Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:40 am

Rather than merging clubs I would rather see a two tier competition, div 1 and div 2.

The fear with merging clubs and having just one 6 team comp is that the standard would drop over time or stagnate. Take the A-League and Big Bash as cases of this. With their being no divisions we see this merry go round of mature players who just swap clubs each year and get recycled at the expense of up and coming talent.

Divisions will keep teams 'more honest' and make each year as important as the next, rather than a team 'bottoming' out for a couple of years why they save the bank to have a real crack at a premiership in two years time.

Naturally div two will be a strong breeding ground for younger kids coming into A grade cricket to make a name for themselves.
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Re: Which grade clubs should go?

Postby Lightning McQueen » Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:04 am

8-10 top clubs at seasons end to stay, the remaining to merge with ATCA then have a promotion/relegation scenario moving forward.

Clubs won't lose their identity and those that have the desire to play shield cricket will move to the higher grade.
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Re: Which grade clubs should go?

Postby am Bays » Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:06 am

gadj1976 wrote:I'm a dad of a 12 yo lad who is slowly progressing through the bottom ages of district cricket, albeit through development squads.

To be honest, I don't thing there is any 'development' at all. He is in a development squad and what I have seen is the coaches say "good shot" in the nets but nothing about technique, nothing about poor shot selection, nothing about building innings, nothing about partnerships, nothing about putting pressure on the bat by bowling consecutive maiden overs. Maybe that will come as he progresses. I don' t know. All I know is that when I speak to other district clubs at the same age group, all the parents say the same thing, it's very ordinarily managed. At our club, there is a disconnect between the development squad and the coaches at the next level. So when my son was selected at the next level, there wasn't any consideration for his batting position, fielding position, bowling position.


Given he is 12 and if the five year blocks of play, train, compete win (if you subscribe to the Istvan Balyi structure of athlete development letting kids play and enjoy the game should be the prime focus the tactical side (nothing about poor shot selection, nothing about building innings, nothing about partnerships, nothing about putting pressure on the bat by bowling consecutive maiden overs) can come as you train to train

gadj1976 wrote:I' He is in a development squad and what I have seen is the coaches say "good shot" in the nets but nothing about technique, nothing about poor shot selection,


However, you'd think this is some of the stuff that should start happening from an individual perspective as part of a development squad, pulling the kid over and doing some basic batting/bowling drills and giving him something to work on personally at each session or at home with Dad.
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Re: Which grade clubs should go?

Postby am Bays » Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:08 am

Merge Glenelg and Southerns and base them at Christies.

means we can have the bay oval all year for training
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Re: Which grade clubs should go?

Postby whufc » Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:16 pm

am Bays wrote:
gadj1976 wrote:I'm a dad of a 12 yo lad who is slowly progressing through the bottom ages of district cricket, albeit through development squads.

To be honest, I don't thing there is any 'development' at all. He is in a development squad and what I have seen is the coaches say "good shot" in the nets but nothing about technique, nothing about poor shot selection, nothing about building innings, nothing about partnerships, nothing about putting pressure on the bat by bowling consecutive maiden overs. Maybe that will come as he progresses. I don' t know. All I know is that when I speak to other district clubs at the same age group, all the parents say the same thing, it's very ordinarily managed. At our club, there is a disconnect between the development squad and the coaches at the next level. So when my son was selected at the next level, there wasn't any consideration for his batting position, fielding position, bowling position.


Given he is 12 and if the five year blocks of play, train, compete win (if you subscribe to the Istvan Balyi structure of athlete development letting kids play and enjoy the game should be the prime focus the tactical side (nothing about poor shot selection, nothing about building innings, nothing about partnerships, nothing about putting pressure on the bat by bowling consecutive maiden overs) can come as you train to train

gadj1976 wrote:I' He is in a development squad and what I have seen is the coaches say "good shot" in the nets but nothing about technique, nothing about poor shot selection,


However, you'd think this is some of the stuff that should start happening from an individual perspective as part of a development squad, pulling the kid over and doing some basic batting/bowling drills and giving him something to work on personally at each session or at home with Dad.


The problem with the Istvan Balyi structure you've described and the sport of cricket is that its a chicken and the egg kind of situation.

Yeah it should be all about enjoying the game and letting the kids play but goodluck finding me too many kids who love cricket when there not scoring any runs and get out every third ball, even if they can continue to bat on. Same as good luck finding a kind enjoying cricket when only one out of four balls lands on the pitch. Yes we can not keep scores, let them bat xx amount of overs but kids aren't stupid they know if they are 'succeeding' or not.

By having an element of training that is aligned to the tactical side you can develop kids who maybe don't have the motor skills or hand eye a lot quicker. Potentially by having some cricket 'IQ' they are able to find a place and role in the game a lot quicker.

From my experience in cricket I was a tiny kid and essentially couldn't hit the ball through the field at an early age....some would say that's still the case haha. Literally couldn't hit any runs. My junior coach for a couple of years who I hold in the highest regard Johnny Ashworth though spent many hours teaching me 'cricket'. Teaching me its a team game and partnerships mean more than one bloke hitting a fifty, teaching me how to run between wickets and pick up those opportunities I wasnt' getting before hand. Taught me how I could play a role in the field and they could be equally as valuable as hitting 10 runs. I fell in love with the game because whilst I didn't have the ability or power others had, I knew the game and genuinely believed I was playing a part in the game.

That kept me going through those early years to which the bowlers got quicker, I put on some weight and hitting the ball through the field was easier and all a sudden the game became more and more fun.

I stand by the fact that being taught cricket at young age is why I have fallen in love with the game to the point that I cant make myself retire. Honestly believe without his coaching I would have just dropped off.
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Re: Which grade clubs should go?

Postby Corona Man » Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:37 pm

As a parent of a kid whop went through the "system" about 15 years ago I understand what you blokes are saying.

My bloke tried out for a district club, for Ray Sutton shield. He was also a smaller kid, who struggled to hit the ball through the field. To be fair the coaches had a decent look at him, but ultimately he was cut. The club in question, "farmed" out the ones who didn't make it, to nearby clubs to play in a competition a level down. My son played, went ok, that was about it though. My observation of the coaches at the U/12 type level was similar. Good shot, but beyond that, not a lot. I think they are looking for kids who can work it out a bit for themselves. Some can, many can't at that age.

The following season, another district club put together a "development" type team from the Hills area, and played against other SACA clubs in an U/13 comp. My son was included in this team, and was a reasonable contributor to the team. However come the following season was overlooked for U/14's.

All the while I was encouraging him, coaching him at local level, and instilling in him the need for a decent defensive technique (you can't score runs once you're out) and giving him literally 100's of throwdowns every week.

Once he got to U/16 level, his game was starting to take shape, he got a bit bigger (solid, nugetty type) and started playing some seniors as well. He would make his retirement score most weeks in 16's, then began making some nice scores, albeit them small in the seniors, but could occupy the crease.

His first season in seniors he went straight into the A grade, bowling some handy leg spin. Took some good wickets. Batting still developing at this stage. Fast forward another 3 years, and his batting matures, to the point he is making tons albeit at country level. With some egging on from his mates, he decided to have another crack at grade level.

To start with, he couldn't get a game of 4ths. Stuck at it. Eventually got a chance, they batted him at 3, and he made a 70 odd. Stayed in the team for the remainder of the season. Second season in, and he made a 4th grade ton, but still didn't get the nod to go up. A mid season injury saw him give away the bowling, and take the gloves up again (he kept a fair bit as a kid) and he soon caught the eye. By season's end he was established as the 3 grade keeper.

Made some good runs in his most recent game (and a ton in the country when SACA was washed out) and he has really come full circle. From a kid who could barely hit it off the square to a bloke who can score at better than a run a ball when required, and hit bombs out of the park...

My 2 cents, keep encouraging your kids, fill the gaps where the coaches do not fill... teach them the game. Tell them that if they didn't fail from time to time, then they would not appreciate the good times when they come. Persistence will pay off.
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Re: Which grade clubs should go?

Postby Aerie » Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:10 pm

Have said this a million times, so it probably is still a bad idea.

Premier Competition consisting of Top 8 1st Grade Clubs.
District Competition consisting of the 2nd Grade of the top 8 clubs and 1st Grade of the rest.

If your 1st Grade team wins the District Competition, your club replaces the wooden spooner of the Premier Competition.

Looking at 1st Grade results over the last decade, it’s clear Prospect are the worst performed club by a mile. Unfortunately Northerns, Southerns and Port would be the other clubs you would put in the District Competition to start with. It would then be out of Woodville, West Torrens, Adelaide and East Torrens who would be the other club to miss out on a start in the Premier competition.

If there was a merger or mergers, I would automatically grant those clubs a start in the Premier Competition.

There’d also need to be an audit of some sort on facilities, coaching set ups and finances to help make those decisions.

The Premier Competition would consist of a separate 2-day, 1-day and T20 competition and would have some Sunday cricket. All Redbacks squad members would play for a Premier club.

The District Competition would be 2-Day only and no Sunday cricket. It would be competitive due to the possibility of a club being promoted. Encourage senior cricketers to play, given no Sundays. A pathway for potential new clubs, especially those from growing regions such as Mount Barker, Barossa or Aldinga if the SACA sees fit.

Your Travis Head’s, Callum Ferguson’s etc are playing 1st Grade by the age of 15 or 16. These kids are also spotted in the talent pathway by the time they are a teenager and given all the coaching in the world. An 8 team Premier Grade would significantly strengthen the competition. Not sure it will get the Redbacks off the bottom of the ladder though!
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Re: Which grade clubs should go?

Postby gadj1976 » Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:28 am

am Bays wrote:
gadj1976 wrote:I'm a dad of a 12 yo lad who is slowly progressing through the bottom ages of district cricket, albeit through development squads.

To be honest, I don't thing there is any 'development' at all. He is in a development squad and what I have seen is the coaches say "good shot" in the nets but nothing about technique, nothing about poor shot selection, nothing about building innings, nothing about partnerships, nothing about putting pressure on the bat by bowling consecutive maiden overs. Maybe that will come as he progresses. I don' t know. All I know is that when I speak to other district clubs at the same age group, all the parents say the same thing, it's very ordinarily managed. At our club, there is a disconnect between the development squad and the coaches at the next level. So when my son was selected at the next level, there wasn't any consideration for his batting position, fielding position, bowling position.


Given he is 12 and if the five year blocks of play, train, compete win (if you subscribe to the Istvan Balyi structure of athlete development letting kids play and enjoy the game should be the prime focus the tactical side (nothing about poor shot selection, nothing about building innings, nothing about partnerships, nothing about putting pressure on the bat by bowling consecutive maiden overs) can come as you train to train

gadj1976 wrote:I' He is in a development squad and what I have seen is the coaches say "good shot" in the nets but nothing about technique, nothing about poor shot selection,


However, you'd think this is some of the stuff that should start happening from an individual perspective as part of a development squad, pulling the kid over and doing some basic batting/bowling drills and giving him something to work on personally at each session or at home with Dad.


I don't necessarily disagree with what you've said. From my perspective, my son would've been lost to the game if I hadn't started throwing down 150-250 balls in the nets on a Saturday morning in year one and two and working on his technique. He was playing in a team where he was regularly getting bowled and batting down the order. With that came frustration and embarrassment and the intent of not playing. Now he's at the stage he doesn't often get bowled and is enjoying cricket but needs help to take him to the next level.

The conversation we'd had many times as a parent group was 'let them go and have a swing' (ie, let them enjoy themselves) vs 'make sure they bat their allocation of balls' by defending their wicket. The problem is that if they get out cheaply, they are less likely to enjoy the game and more likely to stop playing. More so when there is a logical 'pull' towards baseball and basketball from other mates.

It's a tough one though. I don't think there is a blanket rule for everyone that applies here.
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Re: Which grade clubs should go?

Postby Gosaints » Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:49 am

cokadonkeytoo wrote:Junior cricket has been on a decline for probably the last 8-10 years. Cricket in this state will be in a terrible way if things aren't addressed now. Grade clubs need to look at their junior coaching structures and maybe put more money and resources into that. After all, they are the future of the club!


i agree about the decline in junior cricket, however most premier clubs simply view it as hassle and try not to invest too much time, effort or dollars into it.
the reality is you probably get 1 kid out of 70-80 who will play 50-75 1st grade games and the stars will progress anyway. much easier to go and buy what you need rather than waiting 7-10 years for a return on investment. i don't agree with it however that is what the saca have promoted with their dysfunctional system and poor decision making.
why would a club invest dollars now into something with no return for many years when the pressure will be on to perform now or be talked about for mergers or a second division.
most clubs are now run by mums and dads who are middle management at best, and they have no ability to set a long term vision or direction.
broken system.
only 11 players in a team, a genuine 1st grader will be around for 12-15 years, so who needs to waste resources on developing hundreds of kids that will never play 1st grade.
again, don't agree with the broken system
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Re: Which grade clubs should go?

Postby The Bedge » Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:01 am

If you dramatically reduce the number of grade clubs, do you run the risk of losing more players to the game of cricket in general?
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Re: Which grade clubs should go?

Postby Tony Clifton » Tue Dec 07, 2021 12:00 pm

The Bedge wrote:If you dramatically reduce the number of grade clubs, do you run the risk of losing more players to the game of cricket in general?

Possibly but that's not grade cricket's role
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Re: Which grade clubs should go?

Postby whufc » Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:07 pm

The Bedge wrote:If you dramatically reduce the number of grade clubs, do you run the risk of losing more players to the game of cricket in general?


Would like to think not.....if your at grade cricket either as a junior or senior you must be somewhat passionate about the game. You would like to think their passion would still exist for their original junior club. Maybe that's fantasy land stuff though.
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Re: Which grade clubs should go?

Postby The Old Fellow » Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:13 pm

Tony Clifton wrote:
The Bedge wrote:If you dramatically reduce the number of grade clubs, do you run the risk of losing more players to the game of cricket in general?

Possibly but that's not grade cricket's role


But it SACA's role. It's all based on numbers.
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