Structure of cricket in SA

[smac]

Adam Jones

[Footy Smart]

If the pathway is right, then all cricketers will find their right level. Grade cricket should be about elite cricket. Whites cricket and C/D grade cricket is not about elitism. If there were no C grade for Jake to play in, then his development would have been fast tracked by the club playing him in the B grade as they would not have wanted to lose a talented kid to their system. I would also advocate U18s.

Not always the case Smac, Once a player leaves a District club they very rarely come back and or develop further. I have come from a Turf club and seen players leave for turf clubs(they never come back)

What if you have a strong B grade with depth in your bowling? Jake as a young bowler isnt better than the current 25-27 yo bowlers in the B grade.... where does he play? Where does he train? does he come back if he leaves? Young players in the C/D grade still have access to better facilities than 90% of turf clubs, supposedly better coaching and a clear pathway to State cricket. Once the player leaves they are as good as lost.

You neglected the first sentence - currently I agree. But if Grade cricket becomes elite then players will return or be promoted younger. Jets had a 15 year old in the B grade GF this year, which was about fast tracking his development not because he was a defenite B grade selection.

We had 2x 15 year olds in the Bs also and 1 in the C grade who all played State. The C Grader played a couple of B grade games and will play a full year of B grade this year. Fast tracking works for some but not all, depends on what type of player they are and what players you have at your disposal.

[Bulls forever]

If the pathway is right, then all cricketers will find their right level. Grade cricket should be about elite cricket. Whites cricket and C/D grade cricket is not about elitism. If there were no C grade for Jake to play in, then his development would have been fast tracked by the club playing him in the B grade as they would not have wanted to lose a talented kid to their system. I would also advocate U18s.

Not always the case Smac, Once a player leaves a District club they very rarely come back and or develop further. I have come from a Turf club and seen players leave for turf clubs(they never come back)

What if you have a strong B grade with depth in your bowling? Jake as a young bowler isnt better than the current 25-27 yo bowlers in the B grade.... where does he play? Where does he train? does he come back if he leaves? Young players in the C/D grade still have access to better facilities than 90% of turf clubs, supposedly better coaching and a clear pathway to State cricket. Once the player leaves they are as good as lost.

You neglected the first sentence - currently I agree. But if Grade cricket becomes elite then players will return or be promoted younger. Jets had a 15 year old in the B grade GF this year, which was about fast tracking his development not because he was a defenite B grade selection.

Sounds like another inspired selection to me SMAC, it obviously worked with that premiership they probably should have won the past two years, except for very insipid batting. The one nthing everyone is missing in this is the financial viabbility of a club. You must always think club before you enter into structure discussions, we nall know that is bloddy hard work for cricket clubs, irrespective of where they play, it is a battle to make ends meet. The more players you have, the better chance for financial return and stability.

[Benchwarmer]

NSW - one grade of 20, plus the Shires competition with 20-odd clubs
Vic - one grade of 18, plus a Sub-District comp with abt 30 sides and an amateur turf comp with abt 60 clubs
Tas - one grade of 8 in Hobart (state players come from here only)
Qld - one grade of 12 from Gold Coast through Brizzy and up to the Sunshine Coast
WA - one grade of 16, plus a Suburban Turf competition with 22 clubs

[smac]

You neglected the first sentence - currently I agree. But if Grade cricket becomes elite then players will return or be promoted younger. Jets had a 15 year old in the B grade GF this year, which was about fast tracking his development not because he was a defenite B grade selection.

Sounds like another inspired selection to me SMAC, it obviously worked with that premiership they probably should have won the past two years, except for very insipid batting. The one nthing everyone is missing in this is the financial viabbility of a club. You must always think club before you enter into structure discussions, we nall know that is bloddy hard work for cricket clubs, irrespective of where they play, it is a battle to make ends meet. The more players you have, the better chance for financial return and stability.

On the other side of that coin, the less teams you have to field, the less costs you have related to getting those teams on the field - pitch preparations etc.

And agree about the premierships - could have done with this seasons GF weather in the previous GF!

[Footy Smart]

You neglected the first sentence - currently I agree. But if Grade cricket becomes elite then players will return or be promoted younger. Jets had a 15 year old in the B grade GF this year, which was about fast tracking his development not because he was a defenite B grade selection.

Sounds like another inspired selection to me SMAC, it obviously worked with that premiership they probably should have won the past two years, except for very insipid batting. The one nthing everyone is missing in this is the financial viabbility of a club. You must always think club before you enter into structure discussions, we nall know that is bloddy hard work for cricket clubs, irrespective of where they play, it is a battle to make ends meet. The more players you have, the better chance for financial return and stability.

On the other side of that coin, the less teams you have to field, the less costs you have related to getting those teams on the field - pitch preparations etc.

And agree about the premierships - could have done with this seasons GF weather in the previous GF!

Less players have to cover cost such as cricket balls(training/match), curator fees for the same amount of turf nets etc Not a financially viable option for grade clubs

[smac]

I disagree. A Grade club should be able to afford it. FFS, a $50k grant each season from SACA should be a fair kick start!

[Footy Smart]

I disagree. A Grade club should be able to afford it. FFS, a $50k grant each season from SACA should be a fair kick start!

Dreaming.

[smac]

Which part? The second is FACT, the first should also be fact.

[turbo182]

I can't ebgin to descrie how important the c/d and whtie grades are to grade cricket.

If We (west torrens) Didn't have whites grades/c and d grade, Peter George would be nowhere as a cricketer. he could ahrdly get a gig in under 16s, and then played a hell of a lot of d grade in his first year or two. Just because someone becomes an elite cricket at 25, does not mean they were always destined to get there.

AS far as running a grade club goes: a fifty thousand dolalr grant from the Saca? Hopefully that would get us to round 1.

Curator fees alone cover half of them easily AT LEAST! - has anyone seen waht henely oval looks like at the moment> There's so many costs involved wiht running a CC that you probably

Perfect example: Cricket balls? Sixty bucks a pop - roughly 15 innings per team, plus one day games adn twenty-20's. theres another 5 grand - not even including training balls!

AS for the merger situation: We actively pursued a merger with woodville 10 years ago. Only one club was interested in a fair an equitable split and it subsequently died in teh A$$. Rpobably why theres a bit of animosity between the two clubs.

[RedMagpie]

AS for the merger situation: We actively pursued a merger with woodville 10 years ago. Only one club was interested in a fair an equitable split and it subsequently died in teh A$$. Rpobably why theres a bit of animosity between the two clubs.

Would a promotion/demotion system work?

[turbo182]

AS for the merger situation: We actively pursued a merger with woodville 10 years ago. Only one club was interested in a fair an equitable split and it subsequently died in teh A$$. Rpobably why theres a bit of animosity between the two clubs.

Would a promotion/demotion system work?

Simialr to country cricket? Perhaps, but I would have thought there would need to be a couple of sides added - ie the strongest turf clubs. But Grange are all ex west torrens players anyway!

I think the promotion demotions system is possible, but six sides is probably too small a number - perhaps the merger issue needs to be re-visited. I don't think the problem is junior/lower grade cricket. I think the lack of quality in a grade cricekt is to blame. (keep in mind this is coming from an absolute hack of a cricketer )

[Iron Fist]

AS for the merger situation: We actively pursued a merger with woodville 10 years ago. Only one club was interested in a fair an equitable split and it subsequently died in teh A$$. Rpobably why theres a bit of animosity between the two clubs.

Would a promotion/demotion system work?

Simialr to country cricket? Perhaps, but I would have thought there would need to be a couple of sides added - ie the strongest turf clubs. But Grange are all ex west torrens players anyway!

I think the promotion demotions system is possible, but six sides is probably too small a number - perhaps the merger issue needs to be re-visited. I don't think the problem is junior/lower grade cricket. I think the lack of quality in a grade cricekt is to blame. (keep in mind this is coming from an absolute hack of a cricketer )

Ill second that

[smac]

I can't ebgin to descrie how important the c/d and whtie grades are to grade cricket.

If We (west torrens) Didn't have whites grades/c and d grade, Peter George would be nowhere as a cricketer. he could ahrdly get a gig in under 16s, and then played a hell of a lot of d grade in his first year or two. Just because someone becomes an elite cricket at 25, does not mean they were always destined to get there.

AS far as running a grade club goes: a fifty thousand dolalr grant from the Saca? Hopefully that would get us to round 1.

Curator fees alone cover half of them easily AT LEAST! - has anyone seen waht henely oval looks like at the moment> There's so many costs involved wiht running a CC that you probably

Perfect example: Cricket balls? Sixty bucks a pop - roughly 15 innings per team, plus one day games adn twenty-20's. theres another 5 grand - not even including training balls!

AS for the merger situation: We actively pursued a merger with woodville 10 years ago. Only one club was interested in a fair an equitable split and it subsequently died in teh A$$. Rpobably why theres a bit of animosity between the two clubs.

I can't begin to describe how reliant grade clubs are on those grades... Because they are there. Remove them and the number of cricket balls and pitches required plummets. Those grades are not vital to grade cricket - grade cricket is vital to high performance cricket and high performance cricket does not require c/d and whites cricket. If the pathway is right (I'm sure I have said that before) then the good cricketers will come in and out of the grade system at timess. All cricketers will fin their level.

[turbo182]

Well SMAC, I really hope you haver nothing to do with a Grade cricket club or the running of the competition then, because you are completely and utterly wrong. That or you're Jamie Cox's best mate!

I understand what he/your getting at re - elite junior cricket equals better skill development equals longterm better cricketers.

But you cut out so much of the talent pool!

Mark tubby Taylor didn't make a state underage side til under 19's... Phil jacques didn't make one at all.

And again to make a current player relevant - Peter george struggled to make our whites sides in under 14's and 16s! That SA's most promising fast bowler since Dizzy potentially lsot to cricket if not for those lower grades. DIDn't get a look in at the b grade (not even the a's!) until his third senior year.

AS far you're running of the club. Your argument jsut doesn't work. There is no way our club, which relies so heavily on fundraising, sponsorpship and so very heavily on volunteers would survivie with reduced teams, and hence less supporters and members. Most of our volunteeers are lower grade players or their parents anyhow!

[smac]

Well you can fight it and have no idea how to handle it or you can embrace it and be ready for it.

I know what path I want my club to take.

[Bulls forever]

gee smac i certainly hope you are not associated with a grade club. If your Salisbury reference is in respect to your cricket affiliation, I can almost hear those that worked so hard for that club shuddering. Look at the eastern wall, at the photos that take pride of place. Where the hell do you think Darling, Prior, Causby, Davey, Bishop, Jolly, Heinrich, Lehman, etc. etc. etc. formulated their cricket skills. I can certainly tell you it wasn't with a community club in the northern suburbs. They all played a bit or significant amount of cricket in lower grades and also U17's for that club. The grade clubs identify talent at very early age and ensure that hose standouts, as most of above were are nutured into the grade structure, gently, testing nthem, but not throwing them nto the wolves. If your association is with Salisbury, they have an outstanding record as a grade club in identifying talent and taking it to the best posible level, they did it well in the past and they certainly do it nwelln now. Their record over 35 nyears is second to none. And they have done it, Manou, Cosgrove, Duval, Harris, under the current structure of cricket in SA. Perhaps the SACA and other grade clubs can learn a bit from them, sorry make nthat a lot.

[heater31]

gee smac i certainly hope you are not associated with a grade club. If your Salisbury reference is in respect to your cricket affiliation, I can almost hear those that worked so hard for that club shuddering. Look at the eastern wall, at the photos that take pride of place. Where the hell do you think Darling, Prior, Causby, Davey, Bishop, Jolly, Heinrich, Lehman, etc. etc. etc. formulated their cricket skills. I can certainly tell you it wasn't with a community club in the northern suburbs. They all played a bit or significant amount of cricket in lower grades and also U17's for that club. The grade clubs identify talent at very early age and ensure that hose standouts, as most of above were are nutured into the grade structure, gently, testing nthem, but not throwing them nto the wolves. If your association is with Salisbury, they have an outstanding record as a grade club in identifying talent and taking it to the best posible level, they did it well in the past and they certainly do it nwelln now. Their record over 35 nyears is second to none. And they have done it, Manou, Cosgrove, Duval, Harris, under the current structure of cricket in SA. Perhaps the SACA and other grade clubs can learn a bit from them, sorry make nthat a lot.

Obviously you haven't read Boof biography or didn't pay attention - D.S Lehman never played senior cricket for Salisbury or Northern Districts below B grade level.


If Grade cricket was to go the way smac suggests then I would expect the professionalism of grade clubs to increase also. Not only should there be 2 skills sessions a week there should be at least another session of fitness/strength type the in there as well. This will then weed out the non committed.

[smac]

The times, they are a changin'...

[Bulls forever]

The times, they are trying to change them it should read smac. You forget, the grade clubs control the competition, they had an opportunity 5 or 6 years ago when Pt Adel did not playing requirements placed on them to remove them from the competition, the clubs voted no, meaning all of the clubs to flick them from A Grade. The clubs, if I read it correctly are opposed to the Cox changes, some clubs support some aspects, but the clubs will pretty much stick together to retain their own clubs identity.

Also, Lehmann did not play lower than B Grade, but he was playing U16 for Salisbury prior to promotion to B Grade side, where he only played a few games anyway. Not many people come into A Grade at 16 and succeed as he did. So why did he play for Salisbury when he lived at Gawler, talent nidentification and promotion. You could also throw the names Dew, Symes and Hurn into the talent ID for Salisbury, problem was they had a bit of ability at another game and chose that way.

Grade cricket is very much an amateur sport, the players pay to play, an A5 SAAFL club would pay heaps more to any player than any grade club, the players play because of their love for the sport and perhaps that nglimmer of hope that nthey might make it and earn money as a state player. Don't bag the playes or question their commitment, they pay upwards of 300 bucks a year to play, plus the equipment required.