1921 - 1963

Anything to do with the history of the SANFL

1921 - 1963

Postby FOURTH ESTATE » Sun May 24, 2020 8:23 pm

As this is Glenelg's 100th season in league football if we ever start and they became the 8th side of the SANFL here is everyone's record 1921 - 1963 for the Minor & Major Round
MINOR ROUND 1921-1963.jpg
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RICHMOND, RICHMOND, RICHMOND.


Let that be a lesson to you Sturt. You don't beat Glenelg 3 times in a row in Grand Finals and get away with it.
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Re: 1921 - 1963

Postby FOURTH ESTATE » Sun May 24, 2020 8:24 pm

MAJOR ROUND 1921 -1963.jpg
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2017, 2019 & 2020 PREMIERS
RICHMOND, RICHMOND, RICHMOND.


Let that be a lesson to you Sturt. You don't beat Glenelg 3 times in a row in Grand Finals and get away with it.
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Re: 1921 - 1963

Postby RB » Sun May 24, 2020 8:29 pm

Those were the days to be a West Torrens supporter. Better winning percentage than everyone bar Port and Norwood, although not so good in finals.
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Re: 1921 - 1963

Postby FOURTH ESTATE » Sun May 24, 2020 8:44 pm

Still believe that adding Woodville to the comp hurt West Torrens more than Port Adelaide

Stats from 1964 - 1990 don't lie second worst winning percentage in the league and worst finals percentage
D-Day's grade point average (Animal House) 0.00%
2017, 2019 & 2020 PREMIERS
RICHMOND, RICHMOND, RICHMOND.


Let that be a lesson to you Sturt. You don't beat Glenelg 3 times in a row in Grand Finals and get away with it.
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Re: 1921 - 1963

Postby mal » Thu May 28, 2020 7:59 pm

Peter Marker and Stan Wickham on a TV segment
Both reminiscing about the 1950 NW V GL GF
NW 15-16
GL 8-11


Stan Wickham had this too say :
" ...I went down to the 73 GF and I was walking out and this elderly lady she was at this stage come up to me and said will you dance with me please. I said well I dont move too flash, she reckons you danced with me in the 1950 GF and id like to dance with you tonight and it was quite sentimental ..."


Quite amazing that Stan re-met a woman he danced with 23 years earlier
Stan Wickham was a funny man
Played 18 games for ST
Played 101 games for GL
Coached GL in 1961
TV panelist
Football writer
Accomplished bike rider ...
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Re: 1921 - 1963

Postby mal » Fri May 29, 2020 11:14 pm

1921
WA V SA
Interstate game
Perth

WA...6-0...10-0...11-3...12-3[75]
SA 5-3.. .7-7......9-8....9-11[65]

WA were 11-0 at one stage in the 3rd quarter :shock:
SA had 5 more scoring shots and lost :(
SA received the grand total of 1 free kick in this match :roll:
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Re: 1921 - 1963

Postby RB » Fri May 29, 2020 11:55 pm

On the subject of accurate kicking, Port beat the Eagles at Alberton in 1993 by two goals - 19.2 to 14.20.

At least one of Port's behinds was rushed.
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Re: 1921 - 1963

Postby mal » Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:41 pm

WEST TORRENS FINALS AFTER 1953 PREMIERSHIP

1954 EF WT 10-10 NW 9-15
1954 PF WA 10-19 WT 5-10
1955 EF WT 11-11 ST 14-12
1957 EF WT 10-16 NW 11-17
1961 EF WT 7-18 NW 11-15
1962 EF NW 11-15 WT 8-12
1963 SS WT 7-13 PA 9-18
1963 PF WT 10-10 NA 10-12
1969 EF WA 10-16 WT 11-10
1969 EF WA 13-11 WT 10-8 [replay]
1974 GL 15-28 WT 12-10
1978 EF PA 22-15 WT 9-15
1980 EF 12-11 NW 18-20

The last win by WT in a final before the aMALgamation with WDV was the 1954 Elimination final against NW
WT lost and extraordinary 12 finals in a row starting with the 1954 PF loss to PA
1954 therefore famous in Adelaides history an earthquake in March and a WT finals win
Looking at the scorelines it appears WT inability to score close to 100 points in finals matches was a problem

1954 ELIMINATION FINAL
WT...0-2...5-5...6-6...10-10
NW..3-2. 6-6..8-12....9-15

WT
Pyatt, Ashby, Graham, Coverlid, Bill Hank, Carr, Delo
3 Head
2 Pyatt
2 Coverlid

NW
Williams, Reimann, Olds,Roberts,Edwards, Gallagher
2 Fosdike
2 Young

Might have been a breeze factor looking at the scores ?
NW led all day until the last 90 seconds when Adams goaled for the eagles
NW post game made mention of 2 costly plays
NW BIG mans Marriots goal in the 2nd qtr that the goal umpire called a point
WT super star Bob Hank getting a contentious free kick and goal in the last qtr and goaled

No matter what , NW should have won as half way thru the last qtr had a 27 point lead
NW led 6-6 to 9-15 in a low scoring match and should have won
At the end of the last qtr the ball was locked in very deep in the NW forward line

That must have been a tremendous effort by WT to get up
The 2 champs Bob Hank and Lindsay Head didnt get in the best players , adding further weight to the victory
Then Finals victories deserted the club
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Re: 1921 - 1963

Postby robranisgod » Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:04 pm

FOURTH ESTATE wrote:Still believe that adding Woodville to the comp hurt West Torrens more than Port Adelaide

Stats from 1964 - 1990 don't lie second worst winning percentage in the league and worst finals percentage
D-Day's grade point average (Animal House) 0.00%


And Woodville's introduction certainly hurt North Adelaide. How could Kilburn and indeed a small part of Prospect be in Woodville's area. I was reminded of that fact with the sad demise of Bob Hammond. Who, if he had been born just a couple of years later would have been a Woodville player!!!!!
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Re: 1921 - 1963

Postby Aerie » Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:49 am

Lindsay Head mentions the 1963 WT side to be the best he played in and stronger than the 1953 premiership

West Torrens decimated by the inclusion of Woodville in 1964.

Then since the merger, WWT has an overall winning percentage 2nd only to Port. Unfortunately seem to have the same problem in the major round as the old Eagles.

Woodville should never have come in. Admitting Central was a good move.

A special committee formed in 1962 to decide on the future of Central and Woodville who had been admitted to play Reserves since 1959. It was recommended the league stay at 8 clubs, but South Adelaide relocate to Elizabeth. It was recommended no more clubs in the west and that by 1975, two more clubs should be based at Noarlunga and Tea Tree Gully to make 10 teams. West, Port, Sturt and Torrens voted for this. The other 4 clubs voted against, so the Chairman, Tony Kenny had the final say and the rest is history.
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Re: 1921 - 1963

Postby robranisgod » Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:18 pm

Aerie wrote:Lindsay Head mentions the 1963 WT side to be the best he played in and stronger than the 1953 premiership

West Torrens decimated by the inclusion of Woodville in 1964.

Then since the merger, WWT has an overall winning percentage 2nd only to Port. Unfortunately seem to have the same problem in the major round as the old Eagles.

Woodville should never have come in. Admitting Central was a good move.

A special committee formed in 1962 to decide on the future of Central and Woodville who had been admitted to play Reserves since 1959. It was recommended the league stay at 8 clubs, but South Adelaide relocate to Elizabeth. It was recommended no more clubs in the west and that by 1975, two more clubs should be based at Noarlunga and Tea Tree Gully to make 10 teams. West, Port, Sturt and Torrens voted for this. The other 4 clubs voted against, so the Chairman, Tony Kenny had the final say and the rest is history.


I have mentioned before but the biggest problem in the early 60s was that Torrens went from being possibly the richest club in Australia to being broke for their last 25 years of so. That was their biggest downfall because they still had a big recruiting zone to choose from, twice the male population of North Adelaide's zone at the time. Sure the 1963 side had a local champion in Lindsay Head and local stars in Bob Morell and the young locals Glenn Pill, Bob Gibson and John Graham but these stars were bolstered by interstate recruits of the calibre of Bob Shearman, Geoff Kingston, Tracey Braidwood and ex Port star, Neil Hawke, via East Perth. Plus they were able to appoint one of the greatest footballers ever, Dick Reynolds as coach. Reynolds in 1960 had completed 22 years of coaching Essendon with a record of 4 premierships and a 67% winning percentage. He coached Torrens for 3 years where he virtually maintained his winning percentage (65.5%) but was unable to win a premiership. After the Reid Murray collapse, Torrens could never recruit like that again.
I agree that Woodville coming in certainly hurt Torrens, but the straw that broke the camel's back was giving Torrens the North East in the 1970s and then taking it away in 1983. I don't know whether Torrens asked for the area in the early 1970s or asked to relinquish it as their area in 1983 but both moves were strange. Hindsight of course is marvellous but if they wanted 10 teams, rather than Woodville, Tea Tree Gully would have been a better option, or in the early 1970s sending Woodville out there rather than Torrens.
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Re: 1921 - 1963

Postby the milky bar kid » Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:38 pm

RB wrote:On the subject of accurate kicking, Port beat the Eagles at Alberton in 1993 by two goals - 19.2 to 14.20.

At least one of Port's behinds was rushed.


I was there, from memory the other point came from hitting the post.
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Re: 1921 - 1963

Postby mal » Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:50 pm

Hindsight is wonderful
CD had every chance to work, that was an isolated territory in the deeper north
WDV ends up being sandwiched between other western based clubs
The proximity of WA/WT/WD/PA seemed to be too close[in hindsight]
More logically now it seems sending a new club back then , and calling it Noarlunga would have been a better ?
The other alternative was to have had a team called Modbury, but that very slightly encroache more towards the CDFC
It was prob impractical to have 2 new teams in north/north east set ups

WVs entry, if you believe what you hear and read, was partly formulated to weaken PA , but didnt
MALcolm Blight whose neighbor and idol was Rex Johns at Woodville South prob would have ended up being a magpie, imagine that !
It seems it really hurt WT though , but as RIG posted there were monetary factors as well that hurt the club

Ive always thought the merger of WV + WT was logical , purely from a non supporter of both clubs though
The merger has since given some on field success to both clubs

The next question with the SANFL , might be if the AFL based teams AC /PP ever leave the comp
Would the SANFL try for 2 more teams ?
More to the point where would you set 2 teams up ?
Modbury seems logical
The other could be Adelaide Hills , Mt Barker was once mooted as a new set up ?
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Re: 1921 - 1963

Postby Wedgie » Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:15 pm

Noarlunga Centre was only built in the 70s. Was stuff all down there except for Christie's and Port Noarlunga.
Wouldn't have been viable for a team down there till the 90s.
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Re: 1921 - 1963

Postby mal » Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:33 pm

Wedgie wrote:Noarlunga Centre was only built in the 70s. Was stuff all down there except for Christie's and Port Noarlunga.
Wouldn't have been viable for a team down there till the 90s.


Without knowing which areas were aligned to which clubs in the mid 50s
Was there anywhere else deepish south for an Sanfl expansion ?
What about Mclaren Vale areas ?
Or could they have formed a team in the Adelaide Hills ?

If i go back down the hill and use say Reynella for a team, that might be a GL area back then ?
Having a team not deep enough south of town might bugger up GL ?

We had CD formed
Where else could a 10th team be located back then ?
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Re: 1921 - 1963

Postby RB » Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:51 pm

robranisgod wrote:
Aerie wrote:Lindsay Head mentions the 1963 WT side to be the best he played in and stronger than the 1953 premiership

West Torrens decimated by the inclusion of Woodville in 1964.

Then since the merger, WWT has an overall winning percentage 2nd only to Port. Unfortunately seem to have the same problem in the major round as the old Eagles.

Woodville should never have come in. Admitting Central was a good move.

A special committee formed in 1962 to decide on the future of Central and Woodville who had been admitted to play Reserves since 1959. It was recommended the league stay at 8 clubs, but South Adelaide relocate to Elizabeth. It was recommended no more clubs in the west and that by 1975, two more clubs should be based at Noarlunga and Tea Tree Gully to make 10 teams. West, Port, Sturt and Torrens voted for this. The other 4 clubs voted against, so the Chairman, Tony Kenny had the final say and the rest is history.

I agree that Woodville coming in certainly hurt Torrens, but the straw that broke the camel's back was giving Torrens the North East in the 1970s and then taking it away in 1983. I don't know whether Torrens asked for the area in the early 1970s or asked to relinquish it as their area in 1983 but both moves were strange. Hindsight of course is marvellous but if they wanted 10 teams, rather than Woodville, Tea Tree Gully would have been a better option, or in the early 1970s sending Woodville out there rather than Torrens.


I'm 99% certain that Torrens did not ask to relinquish the north east.

Looking at a map of Adelaide in 2020, the Modbury/TTG/north eastern area looks like a no-brainer for a team. To cut the committee a bit of slack, fifty years ago, there was a lot less development up there - e.g. very little north of Grenfell Road. Still, clearly a much better option than Woodville.
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Re: 1921 - 1963

Postby Wedgie » Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:12 pm

mal wrote:
Wedgie wrote:Noarlunga Centre was only built in the 70s. Was stuff all down there except for Christie's and Port Noarlunga.
Wouldn't have been viable for a team down there till the 90s.


Without knowing which areas were aligned to which clubs in the mid 50s
Was there anywhere else deepish south for an Sanfl expansion ?
What about Mclaren Vale areas ?
Or could they have formed a team in the Adelaide Hills ?

If i go back down the hill and use say Reynella for a team, that might be a GL area back then ?
Having a team not deep enough south of town might bugger up GL ?

We had CD formed
Where else could a 10th team be located back then ?

I dont know what the 50s and 60s looked like much but as has been mentioned I would have gone with a TTG/Modbury team, ironically even thought North have a lot of support out there it would have probably hurt Norwood more.
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Re: 1921 - 1963

Postby mal » Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:52 pm

Had Woodville and Centrals not been formed the following players may have ended elsewhere in the SANFL
This is mainly speculative , happy to be corrected

MALcolm Blight to PA
Ralph zip zap Sewer to PA
Bob Simunsen to WT
Colin MacVicar NA

Are they correct ?
Who else could have ended up elsewhere ?
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Re: 1921 - 1963

Postby robranisgod » Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:39 pm

mal wrote:Had Woodville and Centrals not been formed the following players may have ended elsewhere in the SANFL
This is mainly speculative , happy to be corrected

MALcolm Blight to PA
Ralph zip zap Sewer to PA
Bob Simunsen to WT
Colin MacVicar NA

Are they correct ?
Who else could have ended up elsewhere ?


If the pre Woodville and Central boundaries had remained, Port would have certainly got "Nipper" Christie and I think Ray Huppatz. I am not sure of Malcolm Blight but you are certainly correct with Simunsen and MacVicar.
Incredibly North would have got Craig Bradley and Dwayne Russell rather than Port. How Enfield High students ended up at Port is a mystery. Furthermore Russell has admitted he was a one eyed North supporter. Bruce Lindsay would have been a North player, even on the pre 1970 boundaries and incredibly it is likely Lindsay Backman would have possibly played for North.
Like John Cahill a few years before, Lindsay Backman desperately wanted to play for South. Cahill and Backman had to stand out from footy for 3 years if they wanted to be cleared. Cahill played Junior Colts in 1956 for South and won the McCallum Medal. Port then realised that he was tied to them and tried to force him to play for them. He stood out of footy for the whole of 1957 and then by May, 1958 he succumbed and signed with Port. He otherwise couldn't have played footy until 1960.
Lindsay Backman was tied to North and did train with North, but the story has it that he only kicked left foot at training to make himself look less a footballer than he really was. He wanted a clearance to South but North knew how good he was and wouldn't clear him as a 16 year old. North then realised that with the new boundaries coming in, he was going to be tied to Woodville and North would lose him for nothing, so they reluctantly cleared him to South for a tidy sum for a junior.
South immediately profited when he Backman won the 1960 McCallum Medal and went on to have a decorated career with South including playing centre in the 1964 Premiership. He may well have played in that premiership anyway if he had been willing to stand out for 3 years.
On the other hand, North were also going to lose another talented junior, Johnny Robinson, to Woodville on the "new" boundaries so they sat him on the bench for North Under 17s when was the tender age of 12. An astute move.
Another star player who would have ended up elsewhere was Gary Window. Window lived somewhere around Salisbury, an area that was considered country and therefore not zoned until 1959. He could have ventured down to Glenelg where his father had played but his preferred option was West Adelaide who were a power club at the time. I am unsure as to why he didn't sign with West prior to Central commencing in 1959 but he certainly applied for a clearance to West prior to him joining Central.
Because most of the Central area was not zoned prior to them coming in to the competition it is hard to know where a lot of the Central players would have ended up had Central not come in.
I am sure that there are a lot of other players who would have been Torrens, Port or North players if Woodville had not come in but I can only quote the players that I am aware of.
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Re: 1921 - 1963

Postby Wedgie » Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:02 pm

I'll ask zip zap where he would have gone next time he comes into my pub. I'll ask Ian Dettman too. :D
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