Jack Oatey Medallists

Anything to do with the history of the SANFL

Re: Jack Oatey Medallists

Postby mal » Tue May 26, 2020 11:48 pm

In all fairness I had researched Johnny Taylor and saw the correspondence on him being the first to 200 games as well
Im not an exacting historian, Im just a researching junkie
Unfortunately when things happen before our lifetimes there is a need to rely on books, publications, internet posts etc for information

I have posted misleadings and been exposed in the past and no doubt will be again
Ive been lucky some posters on this site have private messaged me on wrongs and saved some embarrassment
There is one thing for sure and certain , I will goof up again !

I once posted
Rick Davies first used the check side ruck tactic under Jack Oatey, I was rightly chastised by another poster
I later found out that Doc Clarkson under Jack Oatey had previously used the tactic

You will read other correspondences that Jack Oatey was the inventor of the checkside punt kick
Mike Sexton a brilliant historian an author of many fine books has said that Colin Chuchett used the check side punt
He learnt the art after being advised by a primary school teacher, and then used the kick during his career of 1943-1954
That meant Colin Churchett became aware and used the kick in the 1930s at school
If you do enough research you will find players using a similar kick in the VFL comps before the 1960s
Jack Oatey was not the inventor of checkside , but made that kick a fashion in the 1960s

All posters , including myself will get caught out
But we must do what Jack Oatey would say, ''play on''
mal
Coach
 
Posts: 26364
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:45 pm
Has liked: 1138 times
Been liked: 892 times

Re: Jack Oatey Medallists

Postby DOC » Wed May 27, 2020 12:13 am

MAL

Do not worry about it. These musings from you and RIG and Fourth Estate etc are great reading and the cause for many fond memories.

More importantly, in 1968 what were you doing overseas as a very young man? Cricket scholarship?
User avatar
DOC
Coach
 
 
Posts: 17913
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 7:15 pm
Has liked: 723 times
Been liked: 2076 times

Re: Jack Oatey Medallists

Postby mal » Wed May 27, 2020 2:08 am

The only cricket I played in 1968 was backyard cricket before going o/s
mal
Coach
 
Posts: 26364
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:45 pm
Has liked: 1138 times
Been liked: 892 times

Re: Jack Oatey Medallists

Postby RB » Wed May 27, 2020 11:35 am

mal wrote:In all fairness I had researched Johnny Taylor and saw the correspondence on him being the first to 200 games as well

I'm pretty sure I read he was first to 200 in the 'Best of Both Worlds' biography on the WWTFC about 10 years ago, hence my post. Presumably the author used the same source as the SANFL website.

I'm not sure what context it would have come up in - perhaps Bob Hank or Alf Roberts passing Taylor's tally.
R.I.P. the SANFL 1877 - 2013
User avatar
RB
Coach
 
Posts: 5628
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:45 pm
Has liked: 759 times
Been liked: 1073 times

Re: Jack Oatey Medallists

Postby robranisgod » Wed May 27, 2020 5:58 pm

RB wrote:
mal wrote:In all fairness I had researched Johnny Taylor and saw the correspondence on him being the first to 200 games as well

I'm pretty sure I read he was first to 200 in the 'Best of Both Worlds' biography on the WWTFC about 10 years ago, hence my post. Presumably the author used the same source as the SANFL website.

I'm not sure what context it would have come up in - perhaps Bob Hank or Alf Roberts passing Taylor's tally.


On page 167 in the "Best of Both Worlds" there is the line "...Head broke the State league games record of 258, previously held by West's Johnny Taylor", but the good news is that someone from the SANFL must read these pages, they have changed the figure to 250 games already on their website.

I give them great credit for making the correction within 24 hours.
robranisgod
League - Best 21
 
 
Posts: 1981
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:36 pm
Has liked: 89 times
Been liked: 224 times
Grassroots Team: Flinders University

Re: Jack Oatey Medallists

Postby RB » Wed May 27, 2020 6:26 pm

robranisgod wrote:
RB wrote:
mal wrote:In all fairness I had researched Johnny Taylor and saw the correspondence on him being the first to 200 games as well

I'm pretty sure I read he was first to 200 in the 'Best of Both Worlds' biography on the WWTFC about 10 years ago, hence my post. Presumably the author used the same source as the SANFL website.

I'm not sure what context it would have come up in - perhaps Bob Hank or Alf Roberts passing Taylor's tally.


On page 167 in the "Best of Both Worlds" there is the line "...Head broke the State league games record of 258, previously held by West's Johnny Taylor",


Like I said, it was ten years ago!!

A fair effort from Head to play (without looking it up) about 327 games for Torrens, of which only about 7 or 8 would've been finals, in addition to more than 30 state games. Imagine if Torrens had made more finals!

Head's first season (he played 19 in total) was Taylor's last. Head debuted midway through the season but it's possible they played against each other.

Taylor's tally is also huge considering the war got in the way. They're weren't too many who played in the SANFL both before and after the war, especially for that long.
R.I.P. the SANFL 1877 - 2013
User avatar
RB
Coach
 
Posts: 5628
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:45 pm
Has liked: 759 times
Been liked: 1073 times

Re: Jack Oatey Medallists

Postby robranisgod » Wed May 27, 2020 11:53 pm

RB wrote:
robranisgod wrote:
RB wrote:
mal wrote:In all fairness I had researched Johnny Taylor and saw the correspondence on him being the first to 200 games as well

I'm pretty sure I read he was first to 200 in the 'Best of Both Worlds' biography on the WWTFC about 10 years ago, hence my post. Presumably the author used the same source as the SANFL website.

I'm not sure what context it would have come up in - perhaps Bob Hank or Alf Roberts passing Taylor's tally.


On page 167 in the "Best of Both Worlds" there is the line "...Head broke the State league games record of 258, previously held by West's Johnny Taylor",


Like I said, it was ten years ago!!

A fair effort from Head to play (without looking it up) about 327 games for Torrens, of which only about 7 or 8 would've been finals, in addition to more than 30 state games. Imagine if Torrens had made more finals!

Head's first season (he played 19 in total) was Taylor's last. Head debuted midway through the season but it's possible they played against each other.

Taylor's tally is also huge considering the war got in the way. They're weren't too many who played in the SANFL both before and after the war, especially for that long.


You did well to know of Taylor. He is somewhat of a forgotten man in SANFL history now. I think it is our role to make sure those with a passion for the history of our game to make sure supporters know of these past stars.

Spot on with the 327 games and don't forget an incredible 37 state games as well. And you make a fair point about the paucity of finals, I think he played in 13 finals in his 19 year league career. The problem being that after winning the 1953 Grand Final by 7 points and the 1954 First Semi Final by 1 point, West Torrens never won another league final in their last 36 years of existence.

As for Taylor, he did play about 38 games for West-Glenelg during the war. You have given me homework to do now to find if he was the last pre war player to play into the 1950s. It might be a toss up between him and Len Lapthorne of South. I think that Lapthorne was the youngest player in South's 1938 flag, he was certainly in that team and I think that he finished in 1952 as well. Lapthorne played 220 league games including 15 with Sturt-South. I know he missed a lot of football whilst serving in the Navy in the Second World War.

When he retired in 1958 it was widely reported that Fos Williams was the last World War 2 serviceman to play SANFL league footy but Fos, of course didn't play before the war. And just to spoil everything, in 1959 Glenelg recruited Fred "last kick" Pemberton as a 36 year old. He served in the navy in World War 2 before playing for St Kilda in the late 1940s. He then played in Sydney before joining Glenelg.

During the 1959 season he scored the winning goal for Glenelg against North with 10 seconds to go but he did even better in the first semi final against Sturt when he scored two goals in the last minute and a half to win the game for Glenelg by one point. Hence the last kick moniker.

As always I have gone off on a number of tangents.
robranisgod
League - Best 21
 
 
Posts: 1981
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:36 pm
Has liked: 89 times
Been liked: 224 times
Grassroots Team: Flinders University

Re: Jack Oatey Medallists

Postby DOC » Thu May 28, 2020 12:32 am

Len Lapthorne played in one game in 1952 as 20th man. He had retired in 1951.

AS reported in the NEWS:

"Because of the desire not to weaken the South Association team, former South and State rover Len Lapthorne became 2Oth man for his old team when
AIbbott withdrew with a sprained ankle. Lapthorne who retired last season, had 1 kick— his only one—within 30 seconds of going on the field in the last quarter"

I make the assumption that the association team was the seconds from whom a last minute replacement would come from.

Len Lapthorne followed his Grandfather and Father in playing league football for South as did his son. I would say the only instance of four direct generations doing so for South.
User avatar
DOC
Coach
 
 
Posts: 17913
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 7:15 pm
Has liked: 723 times
Been liked: 2076 times

Re: Jack Oatey Medallists

Postby robranisgod » Thu May 28, 2020 1:04 am

DOC wrote:Len Lapthorne played in one game in 1952 as 20th man. He had retired in 1951.

AS reported in the Advertiser:

"Because of the desire not to weaken the South Association team, former South and State rover Len Lapthorne became 2Oth man for his old team when
AIbbott withdrew with a sprained ankle. Lapthorne who retired last season, had 1 kick— his only one—within 30 seconds of going on the field in the last quarter"

I make the assumption that the association team was the thirds (known as South Ramblers I think) from whom a last minute replacement would come from.

Len Lapthorne followed his Grandfather and Father in playing league football for South as did his son. I would say the only instance of four direct generations doing so for South.

Would the Association team been the Seconds? That is where the replacement would normally have come from. The Second Eighteens have had a number of various names including currently the Reserves.

So it is looking more likely that Johnny Taylor retired after Len Lapthorne. I have been racking my brain trying to think of any other pre war players stil playing at that time. Jeff Pash and Colin Smith are two who retired in 1949.

In which years did Len Lapthorne's son play for South?

Also would Abbott be the old Minister in the Dunstan government, Roy Abbott. I know that the Minister was an ex South player.
robranisgod
League - Best 21
 
 
Posts: 1981
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:36 pm
Has liked: 89 times
Been liked: 224 times
Grassroots Team: Flinders University

Re: Jack Oatey Medallists

Postby DOC » Thu May 28, 2020 1:32 am

Got me whilst I was editing!

Yes the Association team was the seconds.

Not sure of when his son played, guessing 60's and it was Roy Abbott.
User avatar
DOC
Coach
 
 
Posts: 17913
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 7:15 pm
Has liked: 723 times
Been liked: 2076 times

Re: Jack Oatey Medallists

Postby DOC » Thu May 28, 2020 11:20 am

I posted above about the four generations of Lapthornes playing league football. This is probably not the case. I mentally referenced this :

'A true blue Panther, Len's father, grandfather and son also played for South Adelaide. Recruited from the Fullarton Football Club in 1937, Len could remember getting only three kicks in his first match against West Torrens and it was only the fact that they were goals, he used to say, that kept him in the team!

However, he went on to score a further 360 goals in 208 matches as a rover for South, in a career that extended to 1952, and to play in the carnival side of 1947.

He was a courageous, pacy rover who was hard at the ball, reflected in a piece of Vic Johnson's reporting of the 1938 Grand Final: 'while a trainer replaced a lace in his boot, Lapthorne went into the fray and goaled with a snapshot from his stockinged left foot.'

Like many others in the 1940's, Len's football career was interrupted by the Second World War when he served as a Lt. Commander in the R.A.N.R. On his return to civilian life, he resumed with South and played until 1952, topping the club's goalkicking list in 1946,1948, 1950 and 1951 and serving as captain in 1949 and 1950."


It would appear that only Len and Edward played league. I am not sure if Edward is Father or Grandfather (have ruled out son) yet.
User avatar
DOC
Coach
 
 
Posts: 17913
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 7:15 pm
Has liked: 723 times
Been liked: 2076 times

Re: Jack Oatey Medallists

Postby mal » Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:17 pm

1939 was an interesting year , a year of great changes in both hemispheres
It was a very very hot scorching summer in 1939 in Adelaide

The southern hemisphere of Adelaide saw the course of SA football history significantly altered
Retired PA + WT footballer Ted Oatey took his teenage son Jack Oatey to Alberton Oval to play in an internal trial match
Jack Oatey was pitted against star PA player Max Carmichael
Jack out marked Max that left an impression with the crowd
Jack used the drop kick, muffed and hashed the kick that ended up distancing only a few metres , oh dear
PA tried to sign up Jack , but it never happened
PA advised Jack to play another year in the bush and take it from there
Jack was not impressed by the advice and never ended up a PA footballer

On another sojourn to Adelaide in 1939 Ted Oatey this time took Jack to Norwood Oval
History was altered as Jack signed up to become a NW footballer
Had he ended up at PA and not NW it forever alters history in SA

I wonder if Ted Oatey had considered driving young Jack to Thebarton Oval ?
mal
Coach
 
Posts: 26364
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:45 pm
Has liked: 1138 times
Been liked: 892 times

Re: Jack Oatey Medallists

Postby robranisgod » Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:24 am

mal wrote:1939 was an interesting year , a year of great changes in both hemispheres
It was a very very hot scorching summer in 1939 in Adelaide

The southern hemisphere of Adelaide saw the course of SA football history significantly altered
Retired PA + WT footballer Ted Oatey took his teenage son Jack Oatey to Alberton Oval to play in an internal trial match
Jack Oatey was pitted against star PA player Max Carmichael
Jack out marked Max that left an impression with the crowd
Jack used the drop kick, muffed and hashed the kick that ended up distancing only a few metres , oh dear
PA tried to sign up Jack , but it never happened
PA advised Jack to play another year in the bush and take it from there
Jack was not impressed by the advice and never ended up a PA footballer

On another sojourn to Adelaide in 1939 Ted Oatey this time took Jack to Norwood Oval
History was altered as Jack signed up to become a NW footballer
Had he ended up at PA and not NW it forever alters history in SA

I wonder if Ted Oatey had considered driving young Jack to Thebarton Oval ?

I don't know much about where Ted Oatey took Jack but I do know quite a bit about Max "Bobby" Carmichael. Bobby Carmichael was a schoolboy star with Prince Alfred College and played in the Port 1939 premiership side as a very pacy wingman. He played 49 games for Port up until 1941, when he enlisted in the AIF. Prior to his enlistment he had also worked as Assistant Manager at the famous Palais Royal in the city, which was run by his parents for many years.
"Bobby" was commissioned as a Lieutenant in the AIF, but sadly he was killed at Bougainville near New Guinea on 2nd July, 1945. When you consider that the War in Europe had been over for two months and Hiroshima was only 5 weeks away, Bobby's death seemed especially tragic. So many of his teammates had already returned from the War including his captain, and fellow war hero, Bob Quinn who won the 1945 Magarey Medal.
robranisgod
League - Best 21
 
 
Posts: 1981
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:36 pm
Has liked: 89 times
Been liked: 224 times
Grassroots Team: Flinders University

Re: Jack Oatey Medallists

Postby mal » Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:06 pm

Jack Oatey + Robert Oatey
Father and son had at least 4 things in common
Same surname
Both played for NW
Both coached NW
Both kicked a goal with their first SANFL kick !

I dont know who the better footballer was Jack or Robert
One thing I can post though , if Jack was better than Robert , then he would have been one hec of a player

Amazing family
Ted sired Jack who sired Robert and Peter

Ive not been able to find out
Did Ted have a father that played in the SAFA league ?
Last edited by mal on Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mal
Coach
 
Posts: 26364
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:45 pm
Has liked: 1138 times
Been liked: 892 times

Re: Jack Oatey Medallists

Postby Spargo » Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:17 pm

mal wrote:Jack Oatey + Robert Oatey
Father and son had at least 4 things in common
Same surname


Very well picked up.
2017 safooty NFL tipping champ

Don’t lose your grip on the dreams of the past
You must fight just to keep them alive...
Spargo
Coach
 
 
Posts: 15877
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:42 pm
Location: Getting out of Dodge
Has liked: 5457 times
Been liked: 5089 times
Grassroots Team: Sacred Heart OC

Previous

Board index   Football  SANFL History Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

Around the place

Competitions   SANFL Official Site | Country Footy SA | Southern Football League | VFL Footy
Club Forums   Snouts Louts | The Roost | Redlegs Forum |