1982 preliminary final

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Re: 1982 preliminary final

Postby mal » Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:45 pm

Have to almost totally agree with the last 2 posts by AB + RIG
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Re: 1982 preliminary final

Postby robranisgod » Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:42 am

robranisgod wrote:
am Bays wrote:I think great footy sides aren't great necessarily because of their stars they're great because of their bottom tier players.

I used to say the 21st player picked at Centrals (2000-2010) would make every other league side you couldn't say that about the 21st player at the other eight clubs.

The same with the 20th player at Port back in the day and even the Hawthorn teams of 2012-2015 and the late 80s.

Great teams are defined by their depth and their system of play that is reliable in finals footy.


As an interested, unbiassed observer I thought that was always Glenelg's problem from 1974 until 1985. They had their top end champs but their last 4 or 5 weren't a match for teams like Port. Certainly that changed in 1985 though when 18 of the 20 Glenelg players at some time in their career either played VFL/AFL or interstate football.


An example of what I am saying was in the 1977 Grand Final where Kym Hodgeman had 33 kicks, but was let down by a number of lesser lights and Port won by 8 points. If they had a Jack Oatey Medal in those days Hodgeman would have been a clear winner but Port had a much more even spread of players. Any team that had an Interchange bench of Tony Giles and Geoff Blethyn, notionally the 19th and 20th best players in the team, certainly had a great depth.
As is my wont I digress but it took 38 years for the Jack Oatey Medallist to come from the losing side, yet if it had been awarded 8 years earlier it would have been won by players from the losing side 3 times, Hammond in 1973, Hodgeman in 1977 and Michael Taylor in 1980. An exercise for someone like the great Mal is to work out who would have won the Jack Oatey Medals if they were made retrospective. Some years like 1971, 1972 and 1976 stand out, others like 1978 and 1979 would be very hard to choose.
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Re: 1982 preliminary final

Postby Down the Hill » Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:32 pm

Glenelg's overall finals record at FP was still very good though. Several of those lost GF's were coming from the Elim Final so they still had a 3-1 finals record in those years. But that often highlighted that they were too good a team to only finish 4th or 5th at the end of the minor round and they probably should have won more flags if only they'd won the extra home and away games to give them the double chance.
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Re: 1982 preliminary final

Postby am Bays » Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:41 pm

robranisgod wrote:
robranisgod wrote:
am Bays wrote:I think great footy sides aren't great necessarily because of their stars they're great because of their bottom tier players.

I used to say the 21st player picked at Centrals (2000-2010) would make every other league side you couldn't say that about the 21st player at the other eight clubs.

The same with the 20th player at Port back in the day and even the Hawthorn teams of 2012-2015 and the late 80s.

Great teams are defined by their depth and their system of play that is reliable in finals footy.


As an interested, unbiassed observer I thought that was always Glenelg's problem from 1974 until 1985. They had their top end champs but their last 4 or 5 weren't a match for teams like Port. Certainly that changed in 1985 though when 18 of the 20 Glenelg players at some time in their career either played VFL/AFL or interstate football.


An example of what I am saying was in the 1977 Grand Final where Kym Hodgeman had 33 kicks, but was let down by a number of lesser lights and Port won by 8 points. If they had a Jack Oatey Medal in those days Hodgeman would have been a clear winner but Port had a much more even spread of players. Any team that had an Interchange bench of Tony Giles and Geoff Blethyn, notionally the 19th and 20th best players in the team, certainly had a great depth.
As is my wont I digress but it took 38 years for the Jack Oatey Medallist to come from the losing side, yet if it had been awarded 8 years earlier it would have been won by players from the losing side 3 times, Hammond in 1973, Hodgeman in 1977 and Michael Taylor in 1980. An exercise for someone like the great Mal is to work out who would have won the Jack Oatey Medals if they were made retrospective. Some years like 1971, 1972 and 1976 stand out, others like 1978 and 1979 would be very hard to choose.


I basically concur with everything you say.

A classic example and I know All Australian teams aren't the be all and end all but a year we didn't make the finals we had the 1st ruck combination of the All Australian Team Carey Cornes Hodgeman. Peake (WA) Centreman.

Our top end talent was undeniable. Our history is full of sides/players but not as many great teams (teams when premierships).
Let that be a lesson to you Port, no one beats the Bays five times in a row in a GF and gets away with it!!!
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Re: 1982 preliminary final

Postby am Bays » Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:56 pm

Down the Hill wrote:Glenelg's overall finals record at FP was still very good though. Several of those lost GF's were coming from the Elim Final so they still had a 3-1 finals record in those years. But that often highlighted that they were too good a team to only finish 4th or 5th at the end of the minor round and they probably should have won more flags if only they'd won the extra home and away games to give them the double chance.


Yes and no, mate.

Up until the end of September 1992 it was pretty good (58% finals winning average @FP (28/48)) on the back of making the GF five times from the Elimination (1974, 82, 87, 88 and 92)

However from October 1992 we then proceeded to go on a 12 game finals losing streak there until September 2011 :oops:

overall winning percentage for us in finals at Footy park is: 47%.

Adelaide Oval however...

Since the GF of 1969 our record in finals there is 8/12.

RIG your recollections of the 1970 last round and final series? Seems a strange season in some ways.

It appears we made the finals only on percentage due to Norwood drawing at Alberton and us beating Torrens at the Bay in the last round

We then proceed to beat North and Port to make the GF. In a wet one Sturt beat us by 21 pts.

it is interesting that both Sturt and Port finished five games clear of North (3rd position) at the end of the minor round.
Let that be a lesson to you Port, no one beats the Bays five times in a row in a GF and gets away with it!!!
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Re: 1982 preliminary final

Postby robranisgod » Thu Apr 23, 2020 6:28 pm

am Bays wrote:
Down the Hill wrote:Glenelg's overall finals record at FP was still very good though. Several of those lost GF's were coming from the Elim Final so they still had a 3-1 finals record in those years. But that often highlighted that they were too good a team to only finish 4th or 5th at the end of the minor round and they probably should have won more flags if only they'd won the extra home and away games to give them the double chance.


Yes and no, mate.

Up until the end of September 1992 it was pretty good (58% finals winning average @FP (28/48)) on the back of making the GF five times from the Elimination (1974, 82, 87, 88 and 92)

However from October 1992 we then proceeded to go on a 12 game finals losing streak there until September 2011 :oops:

overall winning percentage for us in finals at Footy park is: 47%.

Adelaide Oval however...

Since the GF of 1969 our record in finals there is 8/12.

RIG your recollections of the 1970 last round and final series? Seems a strange season in some ways.

It appears we made the finals only on percentage due to Norwood drawing at Alberton and us beating Torrens at the Bay in the last round

We then proceed to beat North and Port to make the GF. In a wet one Sturt beat us by 21 pts.

it is interesting that both Sturt and Port finished five games clear of North (3rd position) at the end of the minor round.


Sturt and Port were absolutely dominant in the minor round, North were the third side but never really looked like beating either of the top teams. Conversely North had the measure of the fourth and fifth sides, Norwood and Glenelg in the minor round. Sturt actually won their first 17 matches before losing the last 3 minor round games to Port, Glenelg and West. I thought at the time, and still do that Jack Oatey was giving them a Bart Cummings preparation. Sturt often lost matches late in the Minor Round once the double chance was sewn up.

It was Port's centenary year and it appeared to me that they put too much pressure on themselves which is so different to Port's usual demeanour.
Glenelg were 5 minutes away from not making the finals. With 5 minutes or so to go at Alberton, Norwood led by 19 points. Norwood captain coach, Robert Oatey, took himself off the ball, and Port kicked 3 goals 1 behind to nothing to manage a draw. The drawing point was scored by Michael Dittmar with very little time left. The Norwood full back had dropped a diving chest mark which enabled Dittmar to pick the ball up and score the behind. Incredibly Norwood not only drew 2 games that year, they also finished with a percentage of exactly 50. Their points for and points against were 1872 each.

North would have been slight favourites to beat Glenelg but it was no real surprise when Glenelg won by 16 points. North were considered brittle in the late 1960s and never has a side relied on one man as much as North did in those times. An example of that was when Barrie Robran had to pull out of a match at Woodville Oval that year. Woodville defeated North for the first time in history, with the Peckers winning by 18 points. Noel Teasdale. the Woodville coach, wrote an article in the Adelaide News claiming that Robran wouldn't have made that much difference. Later on in the year, North beat Woodville by 80 points at Prospect and Teasdale apologised saying normally one man wouldn't mean the difference between victory and defeat but in this case Robran was the exception.

What I am alluding to is that Gleneg with their smattering of champs was able to defeat a Robran reliant North.

Then Sturt easily accounted for Port by 35 points in the Second Semi Final.

The absolute shock was when Glenelg defeated Port by 3 goals in the Preliminary Final. Peter Marker, and not for the last time, proved too explosive for Russell Ebert in the centre and Ray Button had one of his mercurial days taking hangers galore across half forward. Fred Phillis scored his 100th goal during the game and his brother Wayne kicked a vital goal late in the game which virtually made the game safe. Port may have blundered at the selection table when they dropped stalwart full back Ron Elleway from the team. I guess they considered he would have been to slow off the mark for Fred Phillis.

And so to the Grand Final. It rained. And it rained. And it rained. I have never known a day like it. Apparently it started raining at about 4 a.m. and there wasn't a break in the weather. Normally the rain stops at some stage. Glenelg actually led by 2 points at half time with John Sandland marking everything at Centre Half Forward despite the ball being like a cake of soap. After half time the great Rick Schoff tightened up on Sandland and with Malcolm Greenslade dominating at Full Forward, Sturt ended up winning by 21 points. Greenslade scored 6 goals and without being too unkind I thought his opponent was one of those Glenelg players who didn't handle the big occasion very well throughout his long career. As usual Glenelg's top end players were excellent despite the conditions but Sturt were just a class above. It was Sturt's last hurrah for four years though and a couple of good, honest players who had been at Sturt for many years finally got their reward of playing in a premiership, so I guess Sturt weren't quite as strong as in the early part of their 5 in a row.

My final comment is that a few years ago I checked to see how much rain fell that day and it was only 11 or 12 mls, so it must have been a drizzle all day,
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Re: 1982 preliminary final

Postby mal » Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:04 am

If they had Jack Oatey medals pre 1981 then the following players would have been considered
Heres a few preceding the first JO medal awarded in 1981
1975 Neil the bear Button or Rodney Rocket Seekamp but its a long time ago
1976 Rick Jumbo Prince Davies undoubtably, the best game from a player Ive ever seen in a SANFL grand Final
1977 ?
1978 Brain Adamson kicked a few goals playing CHF must have been close to a medal
1979 Greg Phillips from memory played a real good game
1981 I still have not seen this Grand Final match, i was too devastated after the prelim final Norwood loss to Glenelg
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Re: 1982 preliminary final

Postby robranisgod » Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:50 am

mal wrote:If they had Jack Oatey medals pre 1981 then the following players would have been considered
Heres a few preceding the first JO medal awarded in 1981
1975 Neil the bear Button or Rodney Rocket Seekamp but its a long time ago
1976 Rick Jumbo Prince Davies undoubtably, the best game from a player Ive ever seen in a SANFL grand Final
1977 ?
1978 Brain Adamson kicked a few goals playing CHF must have been close to a medal
1979 Greg Phillips from memory played a real good game
1981 I still have not seen this Grand Final match, i was too devastated after the prelim final Norwood loss to Glenelg


Russell Ebert actually won the first Jack Oatey Medal in 1981. Your tears must have prevented you from seeing that result
In 1980, one of your men, Michael "Kingo" Taylor was clearly best man on the ground in a losing side.
I mentioned earlier that Kym Hodgeman, with 33 kicks was clearly best man on the ground, also in a losing side in 1977.
In 1979 Port Adelaide gave their best player award to Mark Williams but Phillips did seem to be impassable.
I thought Button was best in 1975, some people thought Rodney Seekamp but possibly most judges thought that the great Rodney Pope was best man on the ground. As you say, Mal, it is a long time ago.
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Re: 1982 preliminary final

Postby DOC » Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:26 am

With regard to 1979, my memory was that Greg Philips was a standout for Port when South were kicking with the wind. Spoil after spoil to the boundary line.
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Re: 1982 preliminary final

Postby robranisgod » Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:41 am

DOC wrote:With regard to 1979, my memory was that Greg Philips was a standout for Port when South were kicking with the wind. Spoil after spoil to the boundary line.

That is my memory of the last quarter in particular.
I am surprised that South actually kicked 6 behinds in the last quarter. All I remember is Greg Phillips punching the ball out of the bounds in the north eastern pocket. It must have been a strong south westerly breeze.
I know of one opposition SANFL coach from that era who is adamant that if it had been a dry day, South would have won the flag.
We will never know that, of course, but conditions did play into Port's hands.
I think that I was surprised at the time that Port awarded Mark Williams their best player.
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Re: 1982 preliminary final

Postby JK » Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:32 am

Imho Taylor would have won it in 78’, although I’d need to watch again. Seemed to be some very even performances across both sides. IIRC Davies, Howard, Downes and Klomp were all busy for Sturt. Whilst Taylor, Adamson, Craig and Turbill probably had greatest effect for Norwood.
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Re: 1982 preliminary final

Postby am Bays » Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:22 pm

JK wrote:Imho Taylor would have won it in 78’, although I’d need to watch again. Seemed to be some very even performances across both sides. IIRC Davies, Howard, Downes and Klomp were all busy for Sturt. Whilst Taylor, Adamson, Craig and Turbill probably had greatest effect for Norwood.


AS a 7 year old mad footy kid, my recollection was hearing the name "Taylor" a lot on the radio whilst we listen to the game at the Cowell Show with my Grandparents. If that's any indication of best players. MInd you I had checked out of the footy season that year two weeks earlier after the 1st semi.

1977 and 1978 were mentally scaring footy seasons in my early life and went a long way in determining who I hated in a footy sense for the next 40+ years….

Back to the 78 GF, I think Sturt supporters would argue Des Foster was BOG that day! 8)
Let that be a lesson to you Port, no one beats the Bays five times in a row in a GF and gets away with it!!!
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Re: 1982 preliminary final

Postby JK » Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:57 pm

am Bays wrote:Back to the 78 GF, I think Sturt supporters would argue Des Foster was BOG that day! 8)


Haha. It was an appalling decision, but there still would have been plenty of time for Norwood to goal again after having kicked 6 already, so no guarantee it would have made the difference. The one guaranteed change that would certainly have made the difference would have been kicking more accurately than 14.26 - No possible way for Norwood to come back had Sturt improved their conversion.
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Re: 1982 preliminary final

Postby robranisgod » Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:13 pm

JK wrote:Imho Taylor would have won it in 78’, although I’d need to watch again. Seemed to be some very even performances across both sides. IIRC Davies, Howard, Downes and Klomp were all busy for Sturt. Whilst Taylor, Adamson, Craig and Turbill probably had greatest effect for Norwood.


According to Barry Nicholls book about the game, the best players were :

BEST
Norwood: Adamson, Taylor, Craig, Button, Rosser, Nunan
Sturt: Burgan, Winter, Davies, Heinrich, Barton

So you were certainly in agreement with Barry with Adamson, Taylor and Craig. I remember Turbill coming off the bench and despite a bad knee scoring a couple of vital goals. The only query I had with Mr. Nicholls' best players for Norwood is Nunan. My recollection is that he had a poor game and was "dragged" quite early in the game for poor performance. Perhaps he lifted later. I, too, will have to watch it again.
I amazed though with Burgan being named Sturt's best player. I know of other Sturt players who were critical of him in the 1978 game and in particular an effort in the dying seconds. I thought that Winter, in his last game for Sturt, played well.
I thought that Klomp had a poor final series. It seemed to me at the time that he was marking time waiting to go to Carlton.
I will never forget late in the Second Semi Final, on the outer side near wear I was standing, Paul Bagshaw plaintively calling "Get a Kick Klompy" as though he was just going through the motions.
All a very long time ago and one's memory does play tricks.
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Re: 1982 preliminary final

Postby Magellan » Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:28 pm

JK wrote:The one guaranteed change that would certainly have made the difference would have been kicking more accurately than 14.26 - No possible way for Norwood to come back had Sturt improved their conversion.

Sturt had kicked something like 5.9 at quarter-time, could've almost stitched it up there and then if they had been more accurate given Norwood's solitary goal.
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Re: 1982 preliminary final

Postby JK » Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:03 pm

robranisgod wrote:
JK wrote:Imho Taylor would have won it in 78’, although I’d need to watch again. Seemed to be some very even performances across both sides. IIRC Davies, Howard, Downes and Klomp were all busy for Sturt. Whilst Taylor, Adamson, Craig and Turbill probably had greatest effect for Norwood.


According to Barry Nicholls book about the game, the best players were :

BEST
Norwood: Adamson, Taylor, Craig, Button, Rosser, Nunan
Sturt: Burgan, Winter, Davies, Heinrich, Barton

So you were certainly in agreement with Barry with Adamson, Taylor and Craig. I remember Turbill coming off the bench and despite a bad knee scoring a couple of vital goals. The only query I had with Mr. Nicholls' best players for Norwood is Nunan. My recollection is that he had a poor game and was "dragged" quite early in the game for poor performance. Perhaps he lifted later. I, too, will have to watch it again.
I amazed though with Burgan being named Sturt's best player. I know of other Sturt players who were critical of him in the 1978 game and in particular an effort in the dying seconds. I thought that Winter, in his last game for Sturt, played well.
I thought that Klomp had a poor final series. It seemed to me at the time that he was marking time waiting to go to Carlton.
I will never forget late in the Second Semi Final, on the outer side near wear I was standing, Paul Bagshaw plaintively calling "Get a Kick Klompy" as though he was just going through the motions.
All a very long time ago and one's memory does play tricks.


I must admit, when I wrote my bit I did wonder if I was getting Klomp and Burgan mixed up. Again from an old memory, Winter was pretty innacurate in front of the sticks (or didn't kick as many goals as he should have), so I wouldn't have considered him. I did consider Heinrich and yes I think Barton went alright. For us, Adamson was the leading scorer on the ground and his goals kept us in it, and his torp in the last continued the momentum of the comeback, but other than the goals I didn't think there was enough else to dislodge Kingo Taylor. Rosser had a fair bit of it and provided plenty of good run. Really was one of the weirder ones with no clear cut choice. 1982 probably the same with Jenkins claiming it, but many thought the BOG came from McIntosh, Neagle, Turbill or Thiel.
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Re: 1982 preliminary final

Postby JK » Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:11 pm

As an aside with that 78' GF, such a weird situation with Winter, Barton, Nunan, Craig all switching clubs to join the opponent or having previously played for the opponent (in Nunans case). Extends further if you include North with two of those also playing at prospect along with Terry Von Bertouch.
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Re: 1982 preliminary final

Postby Magellan » Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:46 pm

robranisgod wrote:it took 38 years for the Jack Oatey Medallist to come from the losing side, yet if it had been awarded 8 years earlier it would have been won by players from the losing side 3 times, Hammond in 1973

Interested in more discussion on this - some like RiG say Hammond was best, whilst I've read others who rate Carey's 6 goals from centre half forward as BOG. I was too young to see the 1973 GF live, so I'm interested a comparison.

Also, interested in Rex Voight's performance - how did this stack up in comparison? 7 goals is up there in terms of GF goalscoring, and if we're considering retrospective Jack Oatey medals, then goalscorers tend to be favourably looked on.
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Re: 1982 preliminary final

Postby JK » Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:54 pm

Magellan wrote:
robranisgod wrote:it took 38 years for the Jack Oatey Medallist to come from the losing side, yet if it had been awarded 8 years earlier it would have been won by players from the losing side 3 times, Hammond in 1973

Interested in more discussion on this - some like RiG say Hammond was best, whilst I've read others who rate Carey's 6 goals from centre half forward as BOG. I was too young to see the 1973 GF live, so I'm interested a comparison.

Also, interested in Rex Voight's performance - how did this stack up in comparison? 7 goals is up there in terms of GF goalscoring, and if we're considering retrospective Jack Oatey medals, then goalscorers tend to be favourably looked on.


Im glad you asked this, as I'd meant to when I got around to checking my facts. Separate question again, is this the greatest SANFL GF of alltime?
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Re: 1982 preliminary final

Postby Magellan » Fri Apr 24, 2020 4:02 pm

JK wrote:Separate question again, is this the greatest SANFL GF of alltime?

I'd say it'd have to go pretty damn close. Other contenders?
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