SA Footy

At the risk of opening up a rivalry based can of worms ... I've always felt that Port have clearly out performed the Crows in the area's of trading and drafting, particularly with the younger players ... Whether it's because their kids have more talent or Port have better induction methods or even a more suitable culture for the kids to develop within, I genuinely believe Ports crop of youngsters has always been better than the Crows equivalent.

Would be interested in other peoples thoughts (I know I'll receive a few STFU's here lol).

Perhaps your opinion is based around the fact in recent years (last 5),Port have had a major turn over of players and have given the younger guys opportunities early in their development as opposed to a fairly settled Crow line up over the same period?

I do however think our recruiting is very good,perhaps our player development is just as good.

STFU!

Good thing I spelt it for you first huh?

Even being a one eyed Crows fan....I can still say that Port Power have absoluetly killed us in their trading/drafting over the last five years.

Booney wrote:Perhaps your opinion is based around the fact in recent years (last 5),Port have had a major turn over of players and have given the younger guys opportunities early in their development as opposed to a fairly settled Crow line up over the same period?

I do however think our recruiting is very good,perhaps our player development is just as good.

Possibly, but I don't think so ... There have been opportunities for the younger guys at Adelaide in recent years, but I guess with the over reliance on the experienced players there has been a tendancy to overrate some of the younger ones?

MW wrote:Even being a one eyed Crows fan....I can still say that Port Power have absoluetly killed us in their trading/drafting over the last five years.

You mean there is another kind?

regards,

REB

Rik E Boy wrote:

MW wrote:Even being a one eyed Crows fan....I can still say that Port Power have absoluetly killed us in their trading/drafting over the last five years.

You mean there is another kind?

regards,

REB

Not that I know of

In the era 1997 - 2004 I always felt that the Power were out-trading and out-drafting us. I think Port did a great job in building a team from scratch in 1997 and it's unfortunate that 3 minor premierships only converted in to one flag (gotta slip that one in ...)

However, since Alan Stewart jumped ship to the Crows I have noticed a sharp improvment and I think time will tell that the Crows current crop of young players matches if not betters Port's. A lot of the perception comes down to what the media choose to focus on and as Port are in a re-building phase it gives the impression that their young players are better. However, Port's form this year will still be largely dictated by it's great senior players - Cornes bros, Burgoyne bros, Tredrea, Lade, Brogan, Mahoney. Not to take anything away from their juniors tho ... 4 rising star nominations last year I think is good work.

Cut a long story short - Port have historically been better IMHO but the Crows have now caught up.

Good post Hondo, food for thought ... Just appears as though the Power tend to select more "dynamic" youngsters than the Crows, and I wonder if thats in keeping with a different philosophy?

Perhaps also younger players are selected purely on ability and personal characteristics, but respond differently to different game styles they might be required to play.

Agree with Alan Stewart though, right back to his days with Central I've been an admirer of his.

good argument, but it is at a very high level

can we compare some specifics

lets look at the crows drafted players over the past 3-4 years, Maric, Meesen, Knights, Van Berlo and Douglas

what players are we talking about from Port in that same period?

do we all agree it's too early to judge the 2006 draft pool

Our trading for the most part has been close to the best in the league since our inception. Weve come out on tops in a number of trades.

I dont think the Crows trades have been too bad. They probably havent made as much impact as some of Ports trades, and they made a couple of poor ones, but overall they arent too bad.

Just my opinion but Alan Stewarts record at the Power is severely overrated.

sydney-dog wrote:good argument, but it is at a very high level

can we compare some specifics

lets look at the crows drafted players over the past 3-4 years, Maric, Meesen, Knights, Van Berlo and Douglas

what players are we talking about from Port in that same period?

do we all agree it's too early to judge the 2006 draft pool

Specific players drafted:

2003 draft:
Port
15 - Troy Chaplin
30 - Brad Symes
34 - Luke Peel
39 - Rob Forster-Knight
46 - Michael Pettigrew
PS - Josh Mahoney
PS - Jacob Surjan

Adelaide
14 - Fergus Watts
31 - Josh Kreuger
58 - Ben Hudson
Rookie - Hayden Skipworth
Trade - Scott Stevens

2004:
Port
11 - Adam Thomson
19 - Ryan Willits
34 - James Ezard
35 - Fabian Deluca
51 - Ben Eckermann
PS - Elijah Ware
Trade - Aaron Shattock
Trade - Peter Walsh

Adelaide
8 - John Meeson
24 - Nathan Van Berlo
28 - Chad Gibson
40 - Ivan Maric
56 - Chris Knights
Rookie - Matthew Smith
Trade - Scott Thompson

2005:
Port
30 - Nick Lower
44 - Alipate Carlile
58 - Hugh Minson
70 - Jonathon Giles
PS - Matthew Thomas
Rookie - Danyle Pearce
Trade - Daniel Motlop
Trade - Nathan Lonie

Adelaide
16 - Richard Douglas
17 - Darren Pfeffier
32 - Bernie Vince
48 - Alan Obst
PS - Jason Porplyzia
Rookie - Jon Griffin
Rookie - John Hinge

2006:
Port
5 - Travis Boak
23 - Paul Stewart
39 - Nathan Krakouer
55 - Robert Gray
71 - Justin Westhoff
83 - Ryan Williams
86 - David Rodan
PS - Adam Cockshell
Rookie - Tom Logan
Rookie - Greg Bentley

Adelaide
14 -James Sellar
32 - Kurt Tippett
48 - David Mackay
64 - Nick GIll
78 - Bryce Campbell

adelaide just tend to waste their high draft picks(picks1-10) whenever they get them. i mean look at lawrence angwin and john meesen...

I continually get frustrated with the crows drafting.

This is just one of the choices - Meesen over Woods.

Meesen was not taken by any Victorian clubs and there must of been a reason for that - so the crows take him cause they cant believe he is still available and at the same time ignore Cameron Woods a local lad.

Meesen has been strugglin with injury and really hasnt set the SANFL on fire either playin against men - Woods is playin @ AFL level and doesnt look out of his depth.

End of grumble from me !!!

Blue Boy wrote:I continually get frustrated with the crows drafting.

This is just one of the choices - Meesen over Woods.

Meesen was not taken by any Victorian clubs and there must of been a reason for that - so the crows take him cause they cant believe he is still available and at the same time ignore Cameron Woods a local lad.

Meesen has been strugglin with injury and really hasnt set the SANFL on fire either playin against men - Woods is playin @ AFL level and doesnt look out of his depth.

End of grumble from me !!!

Some patience is required with ruckmen as they take longer to develop ... so wait and see on Meesen you never know. Same thing was being said when the Crows first drafted Peter Vardy. After a couple of years of criticism we ended up with a great player.

And don't get stuck in the thinking that the Victorian clubs are any smarter at drafting than the Crows or Power. It's pure speculation as to when Meesen might have gone had the Crows not taken him. He might have ended up pick 9 for all we know. Drafting is not an exact science and hindsight is a wonderful thing. Ben Rutten, Simon Goodwin and Danyl Pearce came off rookie lists.

hondo71 wrote:

Blue Boy wrote:I continually get frustrated with the crows drafting.

This is just one of the choices - Meesen over Woods.

Meesen was not taken by any Victorian clubs and there must of been a reason for that - so the crows take him cause they cant believe he is still available and at the same time ignore Cameron Woods a local lad.

Meesen has been strugglin with injury and really hasnt set the SANFL on fire either playin against men - Woods is playin @ AFL level and doesnt look out of his depth.

End of grumble from me !!!

Some patience is required with ruckmen as they take longer to develop ... so wait and see on Meesen you never know. Same thing was being said when the Crows first drafted Peter Vardy. After a couple of years of criticism we ended up with a great player.

And don't get stuck in the thinking that the Victorian clubs are any smarter at drafting than the Crows or Power. It's pure speculation as to when Meesen might have gone had the Crows not taken him. He might have ended up pick 9 for all we know. Drafting is not an exact science and hindsight is a wonderful thing. Ben Rutten, Simon Goodwin and Danyl Pearce came off rookie lists.

Fair call ... On the surface (at the moment) Meeson doesn't look the greatest of picks, yet I'm lead to believe there was a fair bit of interest for him from Vic clubs at the end of last year, for which there must also be a reason ... Can also throw someone like DeLuca in on a debate like that, and as I said recently in the SANFL section, this kid looks to have everything he needs yet can't seem to dominate for Sturt as many believe he should.

(In Meesons case I think he becomes a different proposition if he can get himself a decent frame, but if he doesn't bulk up I don't think he'll get too far in the AFL imho)

Constance_Perm wrote:

hondo71 wrote:

Blue Boy wrote:I continually get frustrated with the crows drafting.

This is just one of the choices - Meesen over Woods.

Meesen was not taken by any Victorian clubs and there must of been a reason for that - so the crows take him cause they cant believe he is still available and at the same time ignore Cameron Woods a local lad.

Meesen has been strugglin with injury and really hasnt set the SANFL on fire either playin against men - Woods is playin @ AFL level and doesnt look out of his depth.

End of grumble from me !!!

Some patience is required with ruckmen as they take longer to develop ... so wait and see on Meesen you never know. Same thing was being said when the Crows first drafted Peter Vardy. After a couple of years of criticism we ended up with a great player.

And don't get stuck in the thinking that the Victorian clubs are any smarter at drafting than the Crows or Power. It's pure speculation as to when Meesen might have gone had the Crows not taken him. He might have ended up pick 9 for all we know. Drafting is not an exact science and hindsight is a wonderful thing. Ben Rutten, Simon Goodwin and Danyl Pearce came off rookie lists.

Fair call ... On the surface (at the moment) Meeson doesn't look the greatest of picks, yet I'm lead to believe there was a fair bit of interest for him from Vic clubs at the end of last year, for which there must also be a reason ... Can also throw someone like DeLuca in on a debate like that, and as I said recently in the SANFL section, this kid looks to have everything he needs yet can't seem to dominate for Sturt as many believe he should.

(In Meesons case I think he becomes a different proposition if he can get himself a decent frame, but if he doesn't bulk up I don't think he'll get too far in the AFL imho)

Correct on interest from interstate for Meesen - He had 2 seasons in the SANFL so he was further developed so it was a win win for any Victorian club.

hondo71 wrote:

Blue Boy wrote:I continually get frustrated with the crows drafting.

This is just one of the choices - Meesen over Woods.

Meesen was not taken by any Victorian clubs and there must of been a reason for that - so the crows take him cause they cant believe he is still available and at the same time ignore Cameron Woods a local lad.

Meesen has been strugglin with injury and really hasnt set the SANFL on fire either playin against men - Woods is playin @ AFL level and doesnt look out of his depth.

End of grumble from me !!!

Some patience is required with ruckmen as they take longer to develop ... so wait and see on Meesen you never know. Same thing was being said when the Crows first drafted Peter Vardy. After a couple of years of criticism we ended up with a great player.

And don't get stuck in the thinking that the Victorian clubs are any smarter at drafting than the Crows or Power. It's pure speculation as to when Meesen might have gone had the Crows not taken him. He might have ended up pick 9 for all we know. Drafting is not an exact science and hindsight is a wonderful thing. Ben Rutten, Simon Goodwin and Danyl Pearce came off rookie lists.

True on the development on ruckmen but my angst is Meesen was rated so highly !!!

Maric and Griffen have both passed him and both were taken later - with Griffen only being Rookie listed !!!

Blue Boy wrote:

hondo71 wrote:

Blue Boy wrote:I continually get frustrated with the crows drafting.

True on the development on ruckmen but my angst is Meesen was rated so highly !!!

Maric and Griffen have both passed him and both were taken later - with Griffen only being Rookie listed !!!

Don't forget we are talking about the same club that 'found' Ben Hudson from outside the AFL at age 25 or so. So some cudos there plus further evidence that ruckmen do take longer to develop.