SA Footy

I was thinking about the 2012 Fixture and had the following thought:

To start with break the comp up into 2 lists. Teams that play there games at the MCG & Etihad Stadium and teams that don't

MCG/Etihad
Carlton
Collingwood
Essendon
Nth Melbourne
Melbourne
Hawthorn
Richmond
St Kilda
Western Bulldogs

Don't
Adelaide
Port
West Coast
Fremantle
Sydney
GWS
Brisbane
Gold Coast
Geelong

Geelong is the interesting team because they are the only Victorian team on the Do Not list.
Teams that play there home games now and then at different venues (eg Hawthorn) I have not worried about.

From here my thinking is you play each team in your list once. Half as home games the other half away games.
You then play each team on the opposite list twice. 9 home games 9 away games.
This would make a 26 Round season.

I see this as a fair draw in relation to travel etc. The teams on the MCG/Etihad list will play 17 games at either MCG/Etihad or other home venue and will play 9 games away travelling to Skilled stadium once and to each other state twice. The teams on the Don’t list play 13 games at there home ground and 13 games away.

Your thoughts on this?

Would love to see an equitable draw however that won't make the money.

The interesting thing will be how they work out their interpretation of fair...

we can only wait and see...

You are limiting all the Vic/Vic blockbusters to 1 per year. No way that will happen.

I don't mind the underlying theory to it, but needs a lot of tweaking.

Geelong wont play collingwood, carlton, essendon, or hawthorn at cat park due to ground capacity - we'd rather play them at the 'g'

The AFL draw has nothing to do with being fair, but everything about being profitable. Always was and always will be. While BigShow's idea has merit, it'll never get off the ground.

I'm still stewing about the fact that Geelong will get ONE game at Cat Park in the first ten rounds next year. They clearly don't want us in the top four again.

regards,

REB

We all know the fixture is created to maximise revenue raising, which is why Vic/Vic blockbusters take preference to a draw that may create a more even competition.

I agree it would need tweaking was just a thought I came up with.

Mr Beefy wrote:Geelong wont play collingwood, carlton, essendon, or hawthorn at cat park due to ground capacity - we'd rather play them at the 'g'

I agree Mr Beefy but in the draw I proposed Geelong would have the chance to play the teams you mention twice. At Cat park and the 'g'

Rik E Boy wrote:The AFL draw has nothing to do with being fair, but everything about being profitable. Always was and always will be. While BigShow's idea has merit, it'll never get off the ground.

I'm still stewing about the fact that Geelong will get ONE game at Cat Park in the first ten rounds next year. They clearly don't want us in the top four again.

regards,

REB

Noone does!

Nice Idea, but who would be the home team in the Showdown/Derby? Both SA & WA teams would want it for the revenue?

Although you could have a split crowd which would make for a better atmosphere and also split the revenue/sponsorship. But then members may not get their allocated seats???

Baron Greenback wrote:

Rik E Boy wrote:The AFL draw has nothing to do with being fair, but everything about being profitable. Always was and always will be. While BigShow's idea has merit, it'll never get off the ground.

I'm still stewing about the fact that Geelong will get ONE game at Cat Park in the first ten rounds next year. They clearly don't want us in the top four again.

regards,

REB

Noone does!

Surprise surprise, a Brisbane fan who doesn't object to the AFL rigging the competition ha ha.

regards,

REB

Until the draw becomes even with each team playing another in a home and away fixture the AFL will continue to be a mickey mouse competition.

whufc wrote:Until the draw becomes even with each team playing another in a home and away fixture the AFL will continue to be a mickey mouse competition.

Impossible
That will mean a 32/34 game season.
HALF a year. The human body wasn't designed to play
physical, running games such as Australian football for this long.
If you went to this format, you would not only shorten careers,
but lives as well.
As for the 'mickey mouse' aspect, some NFL teams don't play
each other for 4 years at least. I don't think you can sensibly
call the National Football League that, whatever your opinion
is of american football.

Mr66 wrote:

whufc wrote:Until the draw becomes even with each team playing another in a home and away fixture the AFL will continue to be a mickey mouse competition.

Impossible
That will mean a 32/34 game season.
HALF a year. The human body wasn't designed to play
physical, running games such as Australian football for this long.
If you went to this format, you would not only shorten careers,
but lives as well.
As for the 'mickey mouse' aspect, some NFL teams don't play
each other for 4 years at least. I don't think you can sensibly
call the National Football League that, whatever your opinion
is of american football.

Absolutly ridiculous to have a competition where teams have an advantage before the ball has been bounced because they get to play some teams more than others.

My question to you is

Why does any team deserve an advantage with the draw over any other side?

whufc wrote:Absolutly ridiculous to have a competition where teams have an advantage before the ball has been bounced because they get to play some teams more than others.

My question to you is

Why does any team deserve an advantage with the draw over any other side?

Are you an EPL fan? I believe 22 games each is enough to settle a top 8. Often the top 8 is mostly settled by the mid season because you don't need a utopian perfect home & away season of 350 weeks to find out which teams are better than the rest. I doubt the top 8 would change much if you played another 14 rounds.

"absolutely ridiculous" and "mickey mouse" are a bit extreme! The SANFL up to 1990 was ridiculous and mickey mouse by your definition as each team played 4 teams 3 times and the others 2 times. Even to this day I think they play 3 times each but 2 away and 1 at home so it's still not utopian fair as you would see it.

Any comp that plays perfect home and away only does it because it has lots of time to play the games or they are lucky enough to have the right amount of teams to fit the schedule.

Hondo wrote:

whufc wrote:Absolutly ridiculous to have a competition where teams have an advantage before the ball has been bounced because they get to play some teams more than others.

My question to you is

Why does any team deserve an advantage with the draw over any other side?

Are you an EPL fan? I believe 22 games each is enough to settle a top 8. Often the top 8 is mostly settled by the mid season because you don't need a utopian perfect home & away season of 350 weeks to find out which teams are better than the rest. I doubt the top 8 would change much if you played another 14 rounds.

"absolutely ridiculous" and "mickey mouse" are a bit extreme! Geez, the SANFL up to 1990 was ridiculous and mickey mouse by your definition as each team played 4 teams 3 times and the others 2 times. Even to this day they play 3 times each but 2 away and 1 at home so it's still not utopian fair as you would see it.

Any comp that plays perfect home and away only does it because it has lots of time to play the games or they are lucky enough to have the right amount of teams to fit the schedule.

Yeah im a massive EPL fan, and my wording was probably a bit extreme

I just find it baffling that one team can have an advantage over another team because of who the AFL have drawn them against. Doesnt anyone else think that in a professional comp where teams are spending millions a season thats ridiculous.

I agree 22 games is enough to settle the top 8 but if you were lucky enough to play West Coast and Richmond twice for eg you have a great handicap start over teams that had to play Collingwood and Geelong twice for example like Carlton did.

I have the same opinion about the SANFL who probably could go to a 16 match season.

You don't need perfect home & away to settle a top 8 and even if it might have been 2 teams in and 2 out under a utopian perfect draw the top 4 would be identical and they would be the 4 teams left in the last 2 weeks of finals. You'd be playing these extra games for no real benefit. It's 22 rounds to get us to finals and then 8 teams go from there. If you aren't good enough to be there you'll be found out pretty quick.

EPL is completely different as it doesn't have finals so everything depends on the home & away schedule so then there's more imperitive to make it "fair". Many Aussie rules fans could argue it's ridiculous not to test players/teams under finals pressure to work out the premier team.

whufc wrote:I have the same opinion about the SANFL who probably could go to a 16 match season.

So then you are dictating season length by how many teams you have all to achieve this fair draw. Yet to achieve it you deny fans 6 extra games and deny clubs 6 extra games to raise revenue. For what? So we can all sit back and feel good about how fair the draw is? I think this is a case where practicalities override principle if that makes sense.

If we played 16 games or 28 games over the last 11 seasons I think Centrals would still have 9 flags.

Hondo wrote:You don't need perfect home & away to settle a top 8 and even if it might have been 2 teams in and 2 out under a utopian perfect draw the top 4 would be identical and they would be the 4 teams left in the last 2 weeks of finals. You'd be playing these extra games for no real benefit. It's 22 rounds to get us to finals and then 8 teams go from there. If you aren't good enough to be there you'll be found out pretty quick.

EPL is completely different as it doesn't have finals so everything depends on the home & away schedule so then there's more imperitive to make it "fair". Many Aussie rules fans could argue it's ridiculous not to test players/teams under finals pressure to work out the premier team.

I agree with the top part of the sentence but wouldnt the EPL test a players mentallity and pressure handling skills every single game as every slip up can be the difference between winning the league, making europe and being relegated especially in a sport where the best team on the day doesnt always win.

Plus they have the FA Cup for 'finals type' games.

In the AFL though the draw can be the difference between a side making the top 4 (take carlton as an example if they had played richmond and west coast twice and collingwood and geelong once thats more than likely two extra wins which almost gets them top 4. It can also be the difference between a side making the finals and not making the finals therefore not having a chance in a finals system.

Personally i would rather see the AFL move to a 2 division league with

Carlton
Essendon
Collingwood
Hawthorn
Melbourne
Richmond
W.Bulldogs
St.Kilda
Geelong

Adelaide
Port Adelaide
West Coast
Fremantle
Brisbane
Gold Coast
Sydney
Western Sydney
Kangaroos (they seem to play a few home games 'away' from home)

Play each team in your division once home and away which would be 16 games, then the top 4 from each division make the 8 team finals.

They could then use the spare 4 weeks in the season to play an FA Cup style comp where all teams enter a random draw knockout style, this would still give teams languishing at the bottom something to play for and give the supporters more incentive to attend.

That would be a 20 week season plus finals.

And your right a 16 game SANFL season would be to short maybe that where the state league national comp could come in

whufc wrote:

Mr66 wrote:

whufc wrote:Until the draw becomes even with each team playing another in a home and away fixture the AFL will continue to be a mickey mouse competition.

Impossible
That will mean a 32/34 game season.
HALF a year. The human body wasn't designed to play
physical, running games such as Australian football for this long.
If you went to this format, you would not only shorten careers,
but lives as well.
As for the 'mickey mouse' aspect, some NFL teams don't play
each other for 4 years at least. I don't think you can sensibly
call the National Football League that, whatever your opinion
is of american football.

Absolutly ridiculous to have a competition where teams have an advantage before the ball has been bounced because they get to play some teams more than others.

My question to you is

Why does any team deserve an advantage with the draw over any other side?

No team does.
Just because I think it is ridiculous to have a 30+ round football season , don't think for
one moment that I agree with the way the AFL schedules its fixtures.
My solution to a fair 18 team fixture is to have teams in groups of 6.
Teams would be placed according to their 2010 final placings.
Teams finishing in positions three places apart would play each other twice
eg Teams 1-4-7-10-13-16 would be in one group, 2-5-8-11-14-17 in another
and 3-6-9-12-15-18 would the final group. (and NO separate ladders or, god forbid, conferences!)
You would play the teams in your group twice (10 games) and play the other teams once (12 games) Voila! 22 games against other teams EVENLY spread over best and worst.
This, of course, would mean that if the 'big' teams didn't end up in the same group, then they wouldn't play each other twice.
So, if this means only one Adelaide/Port match, one WC/Fremantle game, on Collingwood/Essendon game etc.. then tough.
But this, of course, would never get off the ground as the AFL would never think of a fair or even draw.

Mr66 wrote:

whufc wrote:

Mr66 wrote:

whufc wrote:Until the draw becomes even with each team playing another in a home and away fixture the AFL will continue to be a mickey mouse competition.

Impossible
That will mean a 32/34 game season.
HALF a year. The human body wasn't designed to play
physical, running games such as Australian football for this long.
If you went to this format, you would not only shorten careers,
but lives as well.
As for the 'mickey mouse' aspect, some NFL teams don't play
each other for 4 years at least. I don't think you can sensibly
call the National Football League that, whatever your opinion
is of american football.

Absolutly ridiculous to have a competition where teams have an advantage before the ball has been bounced because they get to play some teams more than others.

My question to you is

Why does any team deserve an advantage with the draw over any other side?

No team does.
Just because I think it is ridiculous to have a 30+ round football season , don't think for
one moment that I agree with the way the AFL schedules its fixtures.
My solution to a fair 18 team fixture is to have teams in groups of 6.
Teams would be placed according to their 2010 final placings.
Teams finishing in positions three places apart would play each other twice
eg Teams 1-4-7-10-13-16 would be in one group, 2-5-8-11-14-17 in another
and 3-6-9-12-15-18 would the final group. (and NO separate ladders or, god forbid, conferences!)
You would play the teams in your group twice (10 games) and play the other teams once (12 games) Voila! 22 games against other teams EVENLY spread over best and worst.
This, of course, would mean that if the 'big' teams didn't end up in the same group, then they wouldn't play each other twice.
So, if this means only one Adelaide/Port match, one WC/Fremantle game, on Collingwood/Essendon game etc.. then tough.
But this, of course, would never get off the ground as the AFL would never think of a fair or even draw.

good call i agree