I have read some interesting posts about my team SK.
Firstly the coach is still being scrutinised whether he is the
right man at the helm or not.
Personally I think he has done a good job resurecting the
club from the blundering BLIGHT days.
Whether he can take them to a flag is questionable.
I feel the reason for not winning a flag in 2004 + 2005 is
the frustrating fact of having to play at the TELSTRA DOOM [dome]
THOMAS has never in his tenure ever had a full team to pick from.
ST KILDA has always had 3-6 players out in the last 2 years [I
stand to be corrected]
The amount of leg related injuries are far from coincidental.
I would suggest relocate to the MCG and leave the DOOM staduim.
There is evidence to substantiate my DOOM claims.
When AUSTRALIA played the WORLD X1 in october 2005 did we
all see the farcical situation where the AU cricketers had to wear
shoes with spikes to stop them sliding.......................................
Thats my view.....go the saints.
ST KILDA the excuses
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ST KILDA the excuses
by mal » Sun May 14, 2006 9:15 pm
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by sydney-dog » Sun May 14, 2006 9:39 pm
The Blundering Blight days, please if blight remained at the club they would experienced more success then they have had under a poor excuse of a coach called thomas........
Firstly, injuries, especially soft tissue injuries, a major contributing factor of these injuries will be their training and rehab, the coach puts together the training program and appoints the fitness staff who control the rehab, so once again the butt should stop with Thomas......
Secondly, St Kilda has a history of bringing players back too early and have a history of re-ocurring injuries, once again the coach is sto blame.....
Most importantly, Thomas is the worst coach in the AFL, tactically he gets exposed week in week out, his side plays under one game plan and do not have the footy smarts to think their way through oppositions tactics, most importantly Thomas as a coach has not got the best out of a talented list......
Blight v Thomas, please do not mention them in the same breathe, the only reason why the club got rid of Blight was because the club was spineless, Blight had a gutfull of the bad footy culture at the club and at season's end blight was prepared to make some tough calls in regards to a group of senior players, in an effort to change the culture of the club, but when push came to shove the club was not prepared to back their coach and took the easy option.....
Four years later, the clubs culture still has not change, players are undiscipline on and off the field and they still find a way to self explode........
The club has failed because they took a soft option and in doing so employed a coach who is very average at best and has a history of putting people around him who are yes men and who are his fall guys for his failures
Firstly, injuries, especially soft tissue injuries, a major contributing factor of these injuries will be their training and rehab, the coach puts together the training program and appoints the fitness staff who control the rehab, so once again the butt should stop with Thomas......
Secondly, St Kilda has a history of bringing players back too early and have a history of re-ocurring injuries, once again the coach is sto blame.....
Most importantly, Thomas is the worst coach in the AFL, tactically he gets exposed week in week out, his side plays under one game plan and do not have the footy smarts to think their way through oppositions tactics, most importantly Thomas as a coach has not got the best out of a talented list......
Blight v Thomas, please do not mention them in the same breathe, the only reason why the club got rid of Blight was because the club was spineless, Blight had a gutfull of the bad footy culture at the club and at season's end blight was prepared to make some tough calls in regards to a group of senior players, in an effort to change the culture of the club, but when push came to shove the club was not prepared to back their coach and took the easy option.....
Four years later, the clubs culture still has not change, players are undiscipline on and off the field and they still find a way to self explode........
The club has failed because they took a soft option and in doing so employed a coach who is very average at best and has a history of putting people around him who are yes men and who are his fall guys for his failures
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by Mr66 » Sun May 14, 2006 10:32 pm
St.Kilda will never be successful because it is St.Kilda.
One lucky flag in 130 years is the only proof I need to reinforce my argument.
If Lockett,Winmar,Loewe,Burke,Harvey,Riewoldt,Ball and others had played
with another club, they would have won 3 or 4 premierships.
Conversly, if Carey,Hird,Voss had been unfortunte enough to be stuck at
St.Kilda, they would have been regarded as good players who never fulfilled
their potential.
Simply, St.Kilda does not know how to succeed.
Essendon, Carlton, Collingwood have won 10 or more flags and know how to win.
Even clubs which are going through premiership droughts like Richmond and Melbourne,
at one time were successful.
St.Kilda has never had a period when it has been a feared power. And never will.
One lucky flag in 130 years is the only proof I need to reinforce my argument.
If Lockett,Winmar,Loewe,Burke,Harvey,Riewoldt,Ball and others had played
with another club, they would have won 3 or 4 premierships.
Conversly, if Carey,Hird,Voss had been unfortunte enough to be stuck at
St.Kilda, they would have been regarded as good players who never fulfilled
their potential.
Simply, St.Kilda does not know how to succeed.
Essendon, Carlton, Collingwood have won 10 or more flags and know how to win.
Even clubs which are going through premiership droughts like Richmond and Melbourne,
at one time were successful.
St.Kilda has never had a period when it has been a feared power. And never will.
by mal » Sun May 14, 2006 11:12 pm
Thanks for the ST KILDA bashing MR 66 and SYDNET DOG.
Yeah sure the club has a dabolical history in the predraft
eras and before the interstate inclusions of the last 20 years.
Its now a different ball game and by definition a much harder
era to win premierships now with 16 teams in the competition.
These days a successful coach can not be gauged solely on premiership
successes in a 16 team comp.
To make the top 4 or to make a grand final is an achievement.
THOMAS has done a good job to make SK a competitive unit.
He probably lacks the ingenuity to take the saints to a flag but
other higher credentialled higher profile coaches have also
been in the same boat.
I refer to AYRES[AC]MALTHOUSE[CO]THOMPSON[GE]DANIHER[ML]
who have had good teams and not deliveredthis milenuim.
WILLIAMS[PP] also was in a THOMAS situation and was called an
under achiever until he got that flag.
I am asking for answers for 2004-2005 and now 2006
Is telstra DOOM the main obstacle as i think it as.
As for THOMAS injuries have beset him as have injuries to all
the WESTERN BULLDOGS big men this year[they co tennant at telstra as well]
Think about it THOMAS has had more injuries than most other clubs to contend with.
Incidently SYDNEYDOG mine was not a comparism of BLIGHT V THOMAS
I was talking in general terms of the blndering BLIGHT days as to what evolved
from those days[the reasons you gave are pertinent and valid]
So lets talk about 2004-2006 if we can.
Yeah sure the club has a dabolical history in the predraft
eras and before the interstate inclusions of the last 20 years.
Its now a different ball game and by definition a much harder
era to win premierships now with 16 teams in the competition.
These days a successful coach can not be gauged solely on premiership
successes in a 16 team comp.
To make the top 4 or to make a grand final is an achievement.
THOMAS has done a good job to make SK a competitive unit.
He probably lacks the ingenuity to take the saints to a flag but
other higher credentialled higher profile coaches have also
been in the same boat.
I refer to AYRES[AC]MALTHOUSE[CO]THOMPSON[GE]DANIHER[ML]
who have had good teams and not deliveredthis milenuim.
WILLIAMS[PP] also was in a THOMAS situation and was called an
under achiever until he got that flag.
I am asking for answers for 2004-2005 and now 2006
Is telstra DOOM the main obstacle as i think it as.
As for THOMAS injuries have beset him as have injuries to all
the WESTERN BULLDOGS big men this year[they co tennant at telstra as well]
Think about it THOMAS has had more injuries than most other clubs to contend with.
Incidently SYDNEYDOG mine was not a comparism of BLIGHT V THOMAS
I was talking in general terms of the blndering BLIGHT days as to what evolved
from those days[the reasons you gave are pertinent and valid]
So lets talk about 2004-2006 if we can.
by Punk Rooster » Sun May 14, 2006 11:26 pm
On 1 hand you'd be praising Malthouse for back to back GF appearances, on the other, your sledging him for not winning them? They were very unlucky to come up against a side that dominated the competition for 4-5 years... and the Pies were not rated at all. The 'Aints, on the other hand, have virtually got the greatest list of talent in the history of sport- and a coach (I'm not really keen on being accused of saying Thomas is a "coach"...), well an ape from the zoo could do better... St Kilda are poorly run, & this starts at the top- Butters (actually, the one from South Park would do a better job...) down. Anyone care to remeber the farcical situation last year/the year before, when the players didn't have enough smiley faces in their colouring in books, so GT cancelled training & took them to the movies (& prob McDonalds too!), and they lost the next game...mal wrote:To make the top 4 or to make a grand final is an achievement.
THOMAS has done a good job to make SK a competitive unit.
He probably lacks the ingenuity to take the saints to a flag but
other higher credentialled higher profile coaches have also
been in the same boat.
I refer to AYRES[AC]MALTHOUSE[CO]THOMPSON[GE]DANIHER[ML]
who have had good teams and not deliveredthis milenuim.
WILLIAMS[PP] also was in a THOMAS situation and was called an
under achiever until he got that flag.
Very ironic that Freo/Saints played out a draw... both sides are that badly coached, it's a wonder scores didn't end up in "minus" scores!
Mal, you probably love your Saints (who's your SANFL side?), but I think all the criticism thrown at them is very valid.
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by sydney-dog » Sun May 14, 2006 11:32 pm
When the Saints hired Blighty he made it quite blueprint crystal clear to the club and the club hired based on his vision and blueprint for success, but when it was time to for Blighty to make the tough calls the club backed down and used him as a scape goat.........
The Saints have been able to build a talented list because of past failures but this talent has now plateau and why because the man leading the club cannot develop footballers and cannot develop a team or a brand of footy good enough to win flags...........
If the crows had the amount of concession and top 10 picks the saints have had Craigy would deliver the club a swag of premierships.......
Your club has failured because they lacked balls, Blighty was going to end some careers and build a new team, instead the club chose to remain with the same unsuccessful culture in the hope that draft concessions would lead the club to success.
The problem is, talent only gets you so far, a good coach maximises that talent and develops a team and a winning culuture, saints problem is they axe the best man to do that job and replaced him with a DUD
The Saints have been able to build a talented list because of past failures but this talent has now plateau and why because the man leading the club cannot develop footballers and cannot develop a team or a brand of footy good enough to win flags...........
If the crows had the amount of concession and top 10 picks the saints have had Craigy would deliver the club a swag of premierships.......
Your club has failured because they lacked balls, Blighty was going to end some careers and build a new team, instead the club chose to remain with the same unsuccessful culture in the hope that draft concessions would lead the club to success.
The problem is, talent only gets you so far, a good coach maximises that talent and develops a team and a winning culuture, saints problem is they axe the best man to do that job and replaced him with a DUD
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by am Bays » Sun May 14, 2006 11:56 pm
Watching St Kilda and it is hilarous to watch them consistantly stumble late in matches because they have individuals who are not natural leaders trying to be leaders and their natural leaders as part of the rank and file.
This dumb **** idea of Thomas that anyone can be a leader is non-sensical because leadership is a skill that not every talented sportsperson ahs.
The theory (and it is not a bad theory but like most theories shite in practice) is that by sharing the leadership (c) each year is that you develop a team of leaders who can all stand up and lead from within (a leaderful group I think is the psuedo jingoistic quasi neuvo- management term)
However the reality is that no-one on the Saint Kilda team knows who to look for leadership or to be able to take it on themselves (a la a Carey, a Voss, a Hird a HAll etc - each team has a gun or a leader) to make the big play to win a game or give their team a chance of winning. It has happened the against Geelong, Port Adelaide and against Sydeny last year in the Prelim no one at St kilda was prepared to stand up and say i want to win this game for my team and put their body on the line.
Reiwuldt had an opportunity against Geelong and Port but **** it up by fluffing his kicks. Not his fault really as last year instead of developing his skills further (i.e. kicking for goals) as a 4th year player he had to put up with the captaincy shit instead of Hamill or Harvey. Ball has done **** all this year because he has the burdon of captaincy and the off field shit.
What you see is a dumbing down of the St Kilda team to an artificial leadership level and leadership culture rather than rewarding those (Hamill, HAyes etc) who are the natural leaders of that club. Not to mention an imposition on young developing 50 game players who are still learning the caper. I mean FFS have any of us been made senior management/CEO where we work after 2-3 years and been successful??? (I mean really successful not just coped with the job?)
Add this to a coach who is slow to respond to opposition tactics, has county footy tactics, and relies on the individual brilliance of his players at stoppages rather than tactical set ups and you have an underperforming club.
FFS Reiwuldt, Kotchiske, Maguire, Del Santo, Ball, Harvey, Milne, Montagna, Hamill that is a great list that IMHO was the 2nd best list in the comp last year (I thought West Coast had the best list) and underachieved.
Weak underachieving clubs use injuries as an excuse, bring it up if you want but a significant factor in large injury lists is poor player management and poor conditioning programs.
So to Butters i say tahnk you for giving your mate Thomas the job of senior coach of your club becasue with him in charge, at the start of the year, before a ball has been bounced in anger the premiership race has been reduced to 15.
This dumb **** idea of Thomas that anyone can be a leader is non-sensical because leadership is a skill that not every talented sportsperson ahs.
The theory (and it is not a bad theory but like most theories shite in practice) is that by sharing the leadership (c) each year is that you develop a team of leaders who can all stand up and lead from within (a leaderful group I think is the psuedo jingoistic quasi neuvo- management term)
However the reality is that no-one on the Saint Kilda team knows who to look for leadership or to be able to take it on themselves (a la a Carey, a Voss, a Hird a HAll etc - each team has a gun or a leader) to make the big play to win a game or give their team a chance of winning. It has happened the against Geelong, Port Adelaide and against Sydeny last year in the Prelim no one at St kilda was prepared to stand up and say i want to win this game for my team and put their body on the line.
Reiwuldt had an opportunity against Geelong and Port but **** it up by fluffing his kicks. Not his fault really as last year instead of developing his skills further (i.e. kicking for goals) as a 4th year player he had to put up with the captaincy shit instead of Hamill or Harvey. Ball has done **** all this year because he has the burdon of captaincy and the off field shit.
What you see is a dumbing down of the St Kilda team to an artificial leadership level and leadership culture rather than rewarding those (Hamill, HAyes etc) who are the natural leaders of that club. Not to mention an imposition on young developing 50 game players who are still learning the caper. I mean FFS have any of us been made senior management/CEO where we work after 2-3 years and been successful??? (I mean really successful not just coped with the job?)
Add this to a coach who is slow to respond to opposition tactics, has county footy tactics, and relies on the individual brilliance of his players at stoppages rather than tactical set ups and you have an underperforming club.
FFS Reiwuldt, Kotchiske, Maguire, Del Santo, Ball, Harvey, Milne, Montagna, Hamill that is a great list that IMHO was the 2nd best list in the comp last year (I thought West Coast had the best list) and underachieved.
Weak underachieving clubs use injuries as an excuse, bring it up if you want but a significant factor in large injury lists is poor player management and poor conditioning programs.
So to Butters i say tahnk you for giving your mate Thomas the job of senior coach of your club becasue with him in charge, at the start of the year, before a ball has been bounced in anger the premiership race has been reduced to 15.
Last edited by am Bays on Mon May 15, 2006 12:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Let that be a lesson to you Port, no one beats the Bays five times in a row in a GF and gets away with it!!!
by mal » Sun May 14, 2006 11:59 pm
SYDNEYDOG
THOMAS is a rookie coach.
BLIGHTY was sacked at the NORTH MELBOURNE footy club at his first stint.
When BLIGHTY was a rookie coach at GEELONG they also
kept finishing 2nd 2nd .................................................
GEELONG was the laughing stock in those days they were
thrashed several times on the last day.
The messiah then delivered at ADELAIDE.[after how many years]
If luck had not complimented him he may also have failed at ADELAIDE
I refer to the LIBERATORE disallowed goal and that famous unpaid GEELONG
free kick late in another final in the 2 flag years.
We haved guaged BLIGHTS success on his 2 flags.
He has left NM-AC-SK rock bottom when he gave those " Ive lost the passion to
coach'' media interviews after leaving.
BLIGHTS my way or the highway methods have not endeared him to many
players at previous clubs[players have told me]
BLIGHT may have steered the 'AINT'S to a flag...but may have left them rock bottom as well.
As for the criticism PUNK ROOSTER Im looking for answers as well
as my mob are the most under achieved football side in the AFL.
And I barrack for the 2nd most successful club in the SANFL.
If you dont know who that is they are playing your mob this week.
THOMAS is a rookie coach.
BLIGHTY was sacked at the NORTH MELBOURNE footy club at his first stint.
When BLIGHTY was a rookie coach at GEELONG they also
kept finishing 2nd 2nd .................................................
GEELONG was the laughing stock in those days they were
thrashed several times on the last day.
The messiah then delivered at ADELAIDE.[after how many years]
If luck had not complimented him he may also have failed at ADELAIDE
I refer to the LIBERATORE disallowed goal and that famous unpaid GEELONG
free kick late in another final in the 2 flag years.
We haved guaged BLIGHTS success on his 2 flags.
He has left NM-AC-SK rock bottom when he gave those " Ive lost the passion to
coach'' media interviews after leaving.
BLIGHTS my way or the highway methods have not endeared him to many
players at previous clubs[players have told me]
BLIGHT may have steered the 'AINT'S to a flag...but may have left them rock bottom as well.
As for the criticism PUNK ROOSTER Im looking for answers as well
as my mob are the most under achieved football side in the AFL.
And I barrack for the 2nd most successful club in the SANFL.
If you dont know who that is they are playing your mob this week.
by am Bays » Mon May 15, 2006 12:03 am
Thomas is a minibus (half a coach) not a rookie coach.
If you have to make excuses for him, why was he picked in the first place.....
FWIW I reckon Liba's goal at best was over the post.
Colberts mark yes but a free kick to Modra wasn't paid less than five minutes before that........
If you have to make excuses for him, why was he picked in the first place.....
FWIW I reckon Liba's goal at best was over the post.
Colberts mark yes but a free kick to Modra wasn't paid less than five minutes before that........
Let that be a lesson to you Port, no one beats the Bays five times in a row in a GF and gets away with it!!!
by mal » Mon May 15, 2006 12:16 am
After listening to all of you
SK[ or AINTS i like that dig] has to
1 sack the coach
2 sack the fitness coach
3 sack the captain[give it a natural leader]
4 sack the CEO butters
5 stop using injuries as an excuse
6 stop going to the movies
what about
7 leave telstra DOOM ?
SK[ or AINTS i like that dig] has to
1 sack the coach
2 sack the fitness coach
3 sack the captain[give it a natural leader]
4 sack the CEO butters
5 stop using injuries as an excuse
6 stop going to the movies
what about
7 leave telstra DOOM ?
by am Bays » Mon May 15, 2006 12:21 am
How many kicks, marks, handpasses, goals, new sponsors, new tactics does Telstra Dome get??
Blame the stadium if you want, it may be a problem but I doubt that it wil solve the SAints problems....
Blame the stadium if you want, it may be a problem but I doubt that it wil solve the SAints problems....
Let that be a lesson to you Port, no one beats the Bays five times in a row in a GF and gets away with it!!!
by Punk Rooster » Mon May 15, 2006 1:03 am
Leave the Shockers out of this- we'd need to start a new web-site to deal with their ills!mal wrote:TASSIE
At least the AINT'S have won more flags than FREMANGLE.
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by mal » Mon May 15, 2006 1:06 am
PR
Your a pest remover
Go to perth and exterminate Christopher Connelly please.
Until those pretenders win a flag my AIN'TS give me
some bragging rights.
Your a pest remover
Go to perth and exterminate Christopher Connelly please.
Until those pretenders win a flag my AIN'TS give me
some bragging rights.
by sydney-dog » Mon May 15, 2006 8:03 am
In regards to the captain issue, I agree Thomas system is an absolute joke
Firstly, any current captain will tell you it takes you more then 12 months to grow in to the role, to feel comfortable and to put your stamp on the group, but Thomas only gives them 12 months in the job.
Secondly, you can develop leaders without given them a title, rotating captains like the saints are doing is not developing the right values and culture at a club, when you read an honor board at the club and read past names that have held the role as captain, these names would of earnt the right, Thomas is handed the role to players who are not ready and who have not earnt the right to lead a side, and even though this is the 3rd-4th year the club has rotated is captains, they play with no leadership........
What a joke.........
Rookie coach or not, Craigy is a rookie coach, Wosha is a rookie coach, Roos is a rookie coach, with these guys at least you can see structure, discipline and a vision for their clubs
Thomas a mini bus, no more like a family tarago
Firstly, any current captain will tell you it takes you more then 12 months to grow in to the role, to feel comfortable and to put your stamp on the group, but Thomas only gives them 12 months in the job.
Secondly, you can develop leaders without given them a title, rotating captains like the saints are doing is not developing the right values and culture at a club, when you read an honor board at the club and read past names that have held the role as captain, these names would of earnt the right, Thomas is handed the role to players who are not ready and who have not earnt the right to lead a side, and even though this is the 3rd-4th year the club has rotated is captains, they play with no leadership........
What a joke.........
Rookie coach or not, Craigy is a rookie coach, Wosha is a rookie coach, Roos is a rookie coach, with these guys at least you can see structure, discipline and a vision for their clubs
Thomas a mini bus, no more like a family tarago
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by Rik E Boy » Mon May 15, 2006 8:38 am
Yeah, Bomber Thompson has had heaps of first round draft picks just like St Kilda has. You can't put Thompson and Daniher in the same boat as Thomas. For a start those coaches don't have a ridiculous 'who needs a ruckman' philospohy. Who needs a ruckman? You blokes do because a severly underdone King and Ottens gave our midfield an armchair ride on Friday night.
As for the Domea55, I didn't hear you blokes squealing when you won ten straight in 2004. You're more than welcome to come back to Cat park for your *ahem* away games vs. Geelong in the future.
regards,
REB
As for the Domea55, I didn't hear you blokes squealing when you won ten straight in 2004. You're more than welcome to come back to Cat park for your *ahem* away games vs. Geelong in the future.
regards,
REB
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by Booney » Mon May 15, 2006 4:26 pm
Tough on you blokes playing so many games under the roof out of the wind and rain,that must really put a *ahem* dampener on your skills.
If you want to go quickly, go alone.
If you want to go far, go together.
If you want to go far, go together.
by Rik E Boy » Mon May 15, 2006 4:58 pm
Fix your avatar Boon. BTW, at least there is still one side who's supporters you can razz up LOL 
regards,
REB
regards,
REB
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by JK » Mon May 15, 2006 5:10 pm
mal wrote:After listening to all of you
SK[ or AINTS i like that dig] has to
1 sack the coach
2 sack the fitness coach
3 sack the captain[give it a natural leader]
4 sack the CEO butters
5 stop using injuries as an excuse
6 stop going to the movies
what about
7 leave telstra DOOM ?
Didn't cause Essendon a problem in 2000 ... No offence Mal, but I think as a fan you're perhaps highlighting the clubs' problem - too many excuses and not enough action, Thomas is a poor choice of person to have employed as a coach IMO aswell ...
by Blue Boy » Mon May 15, 2006 5:48 pm
Grant Thomas has been St Kildas Coach since early 2001.
No Rookie - just very Lucky
No Rookie - just very Lucky
It is what it is !!!
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