Jon Griffin - next.

[FD88]

The 2009 Griffin has so far presented the same lack of physical presence as before and it hurt us badly in last night's Showdown. As far as I'm concerned we've just about seen enough to start looking to other, more aggressive options. The decision to try him again was justified because Maric was struggling and Griff was racking up the stats for Centrals but things like failing to put your body on the line, easily being worried out of marking contests, these things come back to your approach, your character, your hardness as a player and what Griff displays in this area is not AFL standard. He's just teetering on the edge of having his fate at the club sealed imo, and only a concerted change in his approach could save him.

[NFC]

I'm thinking more along the lines of Jon Griffin - epic fail.

He's terrible, let him play out the year in the SANFL and then see if anyone wants him at seasons end.

The AFC must go searching for another ruckman.

[Felch]

Surely people aren't surprised at this ???

I said 2 weeks ago, he CAN'T play !!!

Maric back this week, has to be !!!

[Booney]

Where do you play Maric then? I would play him CHF and let Tippet do the ruck work while Maric gives a contest at half forward. Tippett has to be #1 ruckman at West Lakes, surely?

[Felch]

Where do you play Maric then? I would play him CHF and let Tippet do the ruck work while Maric gives a contest at half forward. Tippett has to be #1 ruckman at West Lakes, surely?

I think so Booney, but i love Maric's work ethic and aggression. Not sure Maric could hold down CHF, he is probably suited closer to goal.

Tippett was a bit ordinary on Saturday night but he was was no orphan there, and he was up against 2 pretty good ruckman. And he has been very good the previous 2 weeks.

[Psyber]

I'd support trying Maric a forward too, probably FF rather than CHF.
I'd also wonder whether someone else could play full back and try Rutten at CHF - but who?
A bit of strength in the forward line is needed.

[SCD]

IMO - Griffin shouldn't be singled out for what was an absolutely pitiful performance by the team...

He was poor on the weekend and lacked a physical presence - but he wasn't alone.. there were a lot of other guys who didn't have a good game and IMO didn't put their bodies in when it was their turn..

Griffin was also made to look poor due to the game style we played on the weekend (and the week before against Melbourne was even worse).. All I keep hearing from Craig is we need to improve our ability to move the ball quickly and excluding the Geelong and Collingwood game, all I have seen is a major backward step on last year..

We chip and play around with it and then get to 70m from goal and bomb it to the top of the square, no wonder Porpy and Walker can't get a kick If Port did that on the weekend, Griffin would have had 10 - 15 marks also and we would be saying what a good game and job Griffin did...

I have no doubt Maric is a better option in terms of contesting around the ground and his ability to go forward...
BUT he wouldn't have made that big a difference on the weekend.. Bogan is a very good ruckman and the Crows kept kicking it to him @ the top of the square.. ALSO The centre clearances problem is a coaching fault.. Given we couldn't win our own ball, we had to have a sweeper in there to make sure they had to break wide or backwards and that didn't happen...

In terms of personnel - I personally would like to see Stevens left up forward with Walker and Porpy and Tippett..
Play Moran / Bock / Rutten as the key backmen and have Maric and Griffin doing the ruckwork...
But that big forward line will only work if we move the ball quicker...

[Gingernuts]

In terms of personnel - I personally would like to see Stevens left up forward with Walker and Porpy and Tippett..
Play Moran / Bock / Rutten as the key backmen and have Maric and Griffin doing the ruckwork...
But that big forward line will only work if we move the ball quicker...

Agree SCD, I think we should be playing Maric & Griffin in the ruck and leaving Tippett @ CHF with a free reign to roam. Tippett's skills around the ground are getting better every week and if we could keep him stationed around half forward in time he might just give us the avenue to goals that we need.

I also think Griffin needs more time and exposure, I still think he's got a lot of potential. Lade & Brogan have 400+ games experience between them compared to Griffin & Tippett who would be lucky to crack 50 games combined. In all honesty the coaching staff/midfield group would have planned for a loss in the ruck and therefore they obviously also failed to execute their game plans effectively. As Dangerfield said the in the paper today, they have to share the blame for the dismall stoppage work.

[Felch]

Im not putting the blame solely on Griffin - i said a fortnight ago he shouldn't be playing.

Plenty of others guys were down Saturday night. McLeod looks like he is self-preservation mode, and we looked very flat and slow in general.

[JK]

Im not putting the blame solely on Griffin - i said a fortnight ago he shouldn't be playing.

Plenty of others guys were down Saturday night. McLeod looks like he is self-preservation mode, and we looked very flat and slow in general.

Reckon McLeod has been in that mode for 18 months .. Invariably starts the year well, but then I'd imagine the body feels the strain and he has to preserve himself, I wouldn't re-contract him personally, as great as he has been for the Crows.

[Felch]

Im not putting the blame solely on Griffin - i said a fortnight ago he shouldn't be playing.

Plenty of others guys were down Saturday night. McLeod looks like he is self-preservation mode, and we looked very flat and slow in general.

Reckon McLeod has been in that mode for 18 months .. Invariably starts the year well, but then I'd imagine the body feels the strain and he has to preserve himself, I wouldn't re-contract him personally, as great as he has been for the Crows.

I absolutely agree mate. He is a champion but how long can you carry a champion for. Needs to find some form soon or may just end up at the Maggies.

[stan]

Surely people aren't surprised at this ???

I said 2 weeks ago, he CAN'T play !!!

Maric back this week, has to be !!!

Well your damned if you do and damed if you dont. Maric in my opinion lacks plenty and Griffen is the same at the moment. If Tippett doesnt fire then boy your in for a long day/night.

[Psyber]

Surely people aren't surprised at this ???
I said 2 weeks ago, he CAN'T play !!!
Maric back this week, has to be !!!

Well your damned if you do and damed if you dont. Maric in my opinion lacks plenty and Griffen is the same at the moment. If Tippett doesnt fire then boy your in for a long day/night.

Perhaps the Crows need to remeber the concept of "checkside" midfield placements.

[Felch]

Surely people aren't surprised at this ???

I said 2 weeks ago, he CAN'T play !!!

Maric back this week, has to be !!!

Well your damned if you do and damed if you dont. Maric in my opinion lacks plenty and Griffen is the same at the moment. If Tippett doesnt fire then boy your in for a long day/night.

What Maric lacks in skill and natural ability, he more than makes up for in aggression and attack on the footy. He also has a few 'footy smarts'. I know he has been undisciplined and giving away free kicks, but at least he is in the action - Griffen is a spectator !!!

If had to pick one bloke from the Crows line-up who i would want by my side if the sh!t hit the fan, it would be Ivan Maric.

We have been labelled as 'soft' - funny that one of the few blokes we have who draws a line in the sand is playing in the SANFL.

[JK]

Think the club would certainly rate Maric ahead of Griffen at this point in time ... If a player (Maric in this instance) requires some onfield moulding with regard to their discipline, the best way to do so is drop them for a bit ... Promoting Griffen as they have also sends a clear message to a predominantly young group that good performance = reward and poor performance = consequence.

I don't think playing Griffen does the Crows any harm long term, for these reasons.

[Felch]

Yeah, fair point CP. Being involved in coaching myself, i can definately see the value in the 'good performance = reward', and vice-versa. I just wonder about the wisdom of leaving the engine room/midfield short of grunt, when a large amount of the guys playing in there that are still fairly inexperienced and maybe lack some physical presence.

[JK]

Yeah, fair point CP. Being involved in coaching myself, i can definately see the value in the 'good performance = reward', and vice-versa. I just wonder about the wisdom of leaving the engine room/midfield short of grunt, when a large amount of the guys playing in there that are still fairly inexperienced and maybe lack some physical presence.

Yeah it can be a costly sacrifice in any given game, but if the Crows are realistic, they aren't thinking premierships but rather speeding up the competitiveness of the group and the output of the younger members.

My SANFL club has an unwritten list of their best 25 players, and must play PERIOD ... This means "name" players who are out of form continue to be walk up starts ... Also means that those players resuming from a long layoff or with injury concerns autmoatically return ... Also means many of the kids run around in the lower grade disenchanted in thinking there's no reward for performance (ie, no hope for greater opportunity) ... All in all a diabolically unhealthy environment for a club.

[Gingernuts]

Article on AdelaideNow about this:

Ivan in from the cold
MICHELANGELO RUCCI | May 05, 2009 12:30am

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/sport/afl/story/0,26547,25430484-5014664,00.html

For once I agree with Rucci! Play 2 ruckmen (out of Maric, Moran & Griffin) with Tippett left in the forward line, only way to develop these kids into a competitive 'fleet' of big men as far as I'm concerned.

[FD88]

McKernan is the dark horse here. If he can come on as Rendell thinks he will, it would improve our structure enormously - aggressive (question marks over Moran here), strong and athletic 196cm bloke with a huge leap, long arm span and excellent pace for his height. Spells in the ruck followed by a roam across HF, perhaps deeper; right now our major structural issue comes about when Tippett goes into the ruck - we then have no pack-splitting option inside 50, hence our prime movers hesitate with the footy. If we can find one more player with a similar physical presence we would see much better ball movement out there. Here's hoping young Shaun is the man.

[Psyber]

McKernan is the dark horse here. If he can come on as Rendell thinks he will, it would improve our structure enormously - aggressive (question marks over Moran here), strong and athletic 196cm bloke with a huge leap, long arm span and excellent pace for his height. Spells in the ruck followed by a roam across HF, perhaps deeper; right now our major structural issue comes about when Tippett goes into the ruck - we then have no pack-splitting option inside 50, hence our prime movers hesitate with the footy. If we can find one more player with a similar physical presence we would see much better ball movement out there. Here's hoping young Shaun is the man.

I agree with you about McKernan.
In the meantime I'd have Maric up forward whenever Tippet is not there.