Who Will Be the First Coach Sacked

[Strawb]

I was wondering who people think will go before the season is out

[knowitall]

I honestly dont think that any of the above will say goodbye during the year, but If i have to pick it would be Thomas. About as useless as Ayres, just rides on the back of team of talented blokes, and is incapable due to whatever reason to take them that further step.

[Punk Rooster]

Thomas should be the first one sacked, but I reckon Connolly

[Adelaide Hawk]

It should be Wallace, but he's still got 4 years to go.

[Punk Rooster]

All coaches should've been listed for this poll...

Imo, Pagan has no chance of being sacked- he inherited a club that was stripped of draft choices & handed severe penalties. Infact, he should almost be knighted for even fielding a side. He'd be more likely to hand his notice in than anything else.
Unfortunately, Grant "I have no clue about coaching" Thomas, is probably untouchable. His best mate Rod "Nothing's wrong here" Butters is the Prez, and Thomas will be sacked over his dead body.
Chris Connolly is almost in the same situation at Freo, except at a greatly reduced rate, compared to Thomas. He also has the disadvantage of having a more than capable replacement, in Mark Harvey.
Plough will be given more time to build Richmond- don't let last nights thrashing by a very good WB side influence too much at this stage. May be an abhorration, time will tell, essentially, PLough is safe.
Untouchable- Neil Craig (Adelaide would be burnt down if he was sacked), Paul Roos, John Worsfold, Mick Malthouse, Leigh Matthews (but that has an expiry date, just like his "job for life" at the Pies) & Cat Thompson.
Sheedy, Choke-o & Neal Daniher would be unlikely to be given their marching orders- would have to do something really stupid (like publicly sledging the clubs major sponsor...)
Alastair Clarkson & Dean Laidley- candidates that could be under pressure. These clubs will cope with losses, but should they turn into continued shellackings, watch the pressure mount. Laidley is probably the safer of the 2, as he's on church money, & who are they gonna replace him with, a volunteer?

[sydney-dog]

Connolly on today's effort
so many experts rated Freo to make top 6, list has great potential, but too many players can not perform outside of WA, these include Farmer, Headland, Medhurst, Black, may as well name the entire list
Harvey would be licking his lips

[sydney-dog]

Punkrooster
In regards to Pagan, I think he is the most over rated coach since Mosses divided the seas

At North Melbourne he had a superstar which they they gave the forward 50m too who stood there and said "kick it to me, kick it too me", they did long and quick and it won them a flag or two....

Even given this success at the Roo's Pagan was highly criticised internally for giving too much lean way to the senior group / superstars and for not developing and burning youngsters

Now at Carlton, he still plays with the same game plan, the difference is he does not have the Superstar CHF who can deliver.

At Carlton, he is once again responsible for giving too much lean way to senior players, especially Fevola, he has not developed any youngsters and once again burnt youngsters to save senior players, it is common knowledge that Angwin was not alone in regards to the incident he was sacked.

Yes he inherited a poor list with recruiting restraints, but the senior leadership group has not improved under Pagan's leadership and he has failed to develop youth and implemented a recruitment stratewgy to recruit Scotland, Clarke, Boyer and Digby instead of going with youth.......

The other concern is when Carlton gets beaten they get smashed and fall apart

Let's remember, Neil Craig also inherited a list which was rated as bottom 4, but developed players such as Bock, Rutten, Mattner, Skipworth, not to mention reinvented the senior group and game plan which has more then one play in it's play book

Now, isn't that what coaching is all about

[Punk Rooster]

Rather than me register 100 new names for the site, can you just add 100 votes to Connolly? It took him a very long time to work out what the rest of the footy watchers were seeing- Pavlich had 10 Hawks standing him, the Dockers continually kicked to this "contest", & the Hawks continually ran the ball out of defense. Don't know the final score, as once it got to 10 goals, I went out to my car & tried to gas myself- reading the Gambling forum will explain all...

[GWW]

Hey Sydney-dog i disagree re Pagan at the Kangaroos in the 90's. I remember they got thrashed by the crows in the pre season comp in 93 when Schimmelbusch was coaching them. Over 100 points i think. Then Pagan was appointed and he changed the club around completely. As has been mentioned, not much can be read into Pagan's time at Carlton, they just dont have the cattle (draft penalties etc).

[Punk Rooster]

I think Pagan must've read your post SD! I think he proved he can coach, Melbourne were expected to win that with their ears pinned back. I didn't see the game, but the Blues must've been well coached. I don't have an informed opinion on what he does with the juniors, so I'll let that through to the 'keeper. His 2 flags at the Roos (albeit with the game's greatest CHF) weren't flukes either. He was head-hunted for the job at the Blues, & barring him cracking on to the President's daughter, would be unlikely to be sacked, even with the new IR laws...

[stan]

I think Pagan must've read your post SD! I think he proved he can coach, Melbourne were expected to win that with their ears pinned back. I didn't see the game, but the Blues must've been well coached. I don't have an informed opinion on what he does with the juniors, so I'll let that through to the 'keeper. His 2 flags at the Roos (albeit with the game's greatest CHF) weren't flukes either. He was head-hunted for the job at the Blues, & barring him cracking on to the President's daughter, would be unlikely to be sacked, even with the new IR laws...

I dunno punk if he has a personality clash with the boss he might be out. lol

[Dutchy]

Punkrooster
In regards to Pagan, I think he is the most over rated coach since Mosses divided the seas

At North Melbourne he had a superstar which they they gave the forward 50m too who stood there and said "kick it to me, kick it too me", they did long and quick and it won them a flag or two....

Even given this success at the Roo's Pagan was highly criticised internally for giving too much lean way to the senior group / superstars and for not developing and burning youngsters

Now at Carlton, he still plays with the same game plan, the difference is he does not have the Superstar CHF who can deliver.

At Carlton, he is once again responsible for giving too much lean way to senior players, especially Fevola, he has not developed any youngsters and once again burnt youngsters to save senior players, it is common knowledge that Angwin was not alone in regards to the incident he was sacked.

Yes he inherited a poor list with recruiting restraints, but the senior leadership group has not improved under Pagan's leadership and he has failed to develop youth and implemented a recruitment stratewgy to recruit Scotland, Clarke, Boyer and Digby instead of going with youth.......

The other concern is when Carlton gets beaten they get smashed and fall apart

Let's remember, Neil Craig also inherited a list which was rated as bottom 4, but developed players such as Bock, Rutten, Mattner, Skipworth, not to mention reinvented the senior group and game plan which has more then one play in it's play book

Now, isn't that what coaching is all about

Pagan can coach - 7 straight preliminary finals with the Roos doesnt lie especially in the days where the draft works against you finishing consistently high. He has a unique ability to get the every inch of ability out of players, even ordinary ones.

Beaten by Geelong after the siren in '94 prelim
Up against a red hot Carlton in '95
Won '96
Good Saints side in '97
Lost '98 GF with 2.11 in 2nd quarter - crows didnt win it
Won '99
Lost Melb in '00

Could have easily been a better record for the team of the '90's

[sydney-dog]

congrats to Carlton on thier efforts tonight, but one game does not make a season
Agree, Roo's were a powerful side in the 90's but in my opinion it had more to do with a powerful CHF then a good coach
Also need to remember there are other indicators to a good coach then just a win / loss ratio
Both Carlton and the Hawks won about the same amopunt of games last year, but when Carlton lost they got smashed, had no discipline, no structure and no game plan, you just did not see any development at all........

Lets not all fall for the three card trick that you need a host of top 20 draft picks to challenge for the premiership, yes it has helped the saints, cats and now the hawks but ****, top 20 draft picks for the crows has been as rare as rocking horse droppings, but we have been able to develop Perrie, Bock, Rutten, Shipworth, Shirley, Mattner and now Vince and Knights, this along with strong discipline and developing a game plan has seen the club rise from bottom four predictions to top four predictions in 12 months

we all measure our clubs by Win / Loss ratio, but there are other indicators that assist us to get a greater understanding of a coaches ability....

Saints have won plenty of games in the past two years but have failed when it really counts, if they make the Prelim this year and get knocked out, how will we judge Thomas, a great coach because he made three prelim's in three years or a failure given the talent at his disposal.........

Dutchy, after 7 prelim finals in a row, is 2 premiership a good result taken in to account the side he had at his disposal, not to mention one of the games most powerful forwards and game breakers

Dutchy, I think you are being kind and a few too many excuses, lets be honest and look at the losses

94 - Yes Geelong after the siren, good side, but to that stage had a very poor finals record
95 - yes red hot carton side, but a loss is still a loss
96 - beat sydney who were never going to win that GF
97 - lets be honest, the crows exploited the saints lack of finals experience and the Roos had a much stronger side
98 - Even though Roo's kicked badly they should of won the GF, they had the better side on papaer and at half time was in the stronger position to win the game but Pagen was totally out coached in second half and Pagen had no plan B, too predictable
99 - Won again
00 - lost to the demons who don't exactly put the fear in to any side comes finals

Yes Pagen has had to deal with recruiting restraints, but his senior core has gone backwards, has developed few kids coming through, Walker was a gun at U/18, what has he done, is not just been the win / loss it's been the insipid non competitve way they have lost........

Take some time out and check the crows list and see what number most of these boys were drafted........

Craigy, that's coaching

[sydney-dog]

one more thing in regards to Pagen, I have a close family friend who has been a statastician at the roos for 10+ years, who was instructed directly from Pagen to add stats on Carey's stats for 1%, especially chases out of defence.....

now we all know the Duck was not recognise for his chasing

[drebin]

one more thing in regards to Pagen, I have a close family friend who has been a statastician at the roos for 10+ years, who was instructed directly from Pagen to add stats on Carey's stats for 1%, especially chases out of defence.....

now we all know the Duck was not recognise for his chasing

Oh yes he was/is. Do you have any idea of how many women that man has chased down???

[GWW]

Daniher's side on paper is a good one, there could be an argument that hes run his time at the Demons. When they've made the finals in the past theyve followed it up with a flop year.

William's game plan at the moment isnt a great one but the premiership 2 years ago should save him. Pagan's on a rebuilding mission, he'll be in for the long haul.

Connolly could be in trouble at Freo. With the team they have, they shouldnt lose to Hawthorn, but it is only round 1. I think the difference between this year and previous ones though is that the Dockers have a ready replacement (Harvey) should they decide that Connolly isnt up to it.

So to me its a toss up between Daniher's mob and Connolly's Clangers.

[Punk Rooster]

Wasn't Pagan considered an outstanding junior coach, when he was in charge of the North Melbourne U 19's? '94 was the the one that got away from North. They were very unlucky to lose that Prelim, the Cats ar$ed their way into a GF, only so they could lose it (as usual ). A 94 WCE v NM Gf would've been a cracker (on paper)- the Jakovich v Carey duals were at their peak. Would've been a lot closer than the drubbing that the Cats recieved.
Whatever the opinion is of Pagan, the reality is after Carlton's penalties, he must be given time to build a squad. He may not be rated the games best coach, but he'd be rated very highly, & I doubt they could find a better replacement.
Neil Craig is a very good & very thorough coach. He also has the advantage that the Crows have a very stable environment- each year is like the last (post $1 milllion + profit, 45K members etc), the club is very well run at board level (the board would have to do something very stupid to ruin the cash cow they have in the SA footy public), no turmoil there, unlike the blues, which is just rewards for previous actions.
Agree with the Daniher judgement- he has the cattle, missing the finals/some very poor results would see the end of him, you'd think.

[Booney]

Who are the 3 people who voted for Mark Williams FFS?
I hope they realise the poll was asking who would be the first coach sacked,and it was a mere 18 months ago (seems so much longer with current form) that he led us to our first Premiership.Geez.
With the playing stocks we have lost,and been unable to replace over night,are they suggesting it is Mark Williams' fault? [/i]

[Magpiespower]

That first quarter between Freo and the Hawks was one of the worst quarters of football I have ever seen.

A few more efforts like that and Connolly will be looking over his shoulder.

[Punk Rooster]

Who are the 3 people who voted for Mark Williams FFS?
I hope they realise the poll was asking who would be the first coach sacked,and it was a mere 18 months ago (seems so much longer with current form) that he led us to our first Premiership.Geez.
With the playing stocks we have lost,and been unable to replace over night,are they suggesting it is Mark Williams' fault? [/i]

Funnily enough, 3 people also predicted the Bays to play finals this year...