Tankton

[Rik E Boy]

Apparently on the footy show last night (like I'm going to watch that 5hit) former coaching staff member Tony Libaratore confessed that the Blues tanked in 'up to three matches' last season. While many suspected the Blues of doing so this one has opened up Booney's patented 'can o worms'.

Once a bunch of cheating bar5stards, always a bunch of cheating bar5tards, or is Libba just a 'bitter little garden gnome' as I have heard one disgruntled Carlton fan discribe him.

regards,

REB

[Stumps]

Bit of a beat up IMO. All a matter of opinion.. Ratten would say he was blooding the youngsters, giving blokes a rest etc etc. Another angle is your not playing your best players and hence "tanking"- cant prove anything and a futile argument. The only thing that can come of it is to change the rules that rewards losing.
Stumps answer to the problem is give the priority picks to the 9th place team. It gives incentive to team 10-16 to win. And there is no incentive in the 8th team losing as they will miss out on finals. Problem solvered

[blink]

Chris Judd mentioned a solution on the Footy Show last night - which I think has merit.

He suggested that names of the bottom four clubs at seasons end, all get put into a hat and drawn out. Whoever gets drawn out first gets the first pick, second the second pick and so on.

This would alleviate the need for clubs to tank to get the first pick - if you decide to bottom out and finish last you could still end up with the number 4 pick.

[CUTTERMAN]

That's probably a fair way to go about it Stumps.
I'm guessing they still have the bonus concession if a club has only won 3 games or so? If so then I think this should be the first to go, then implement a draft order from what you suggested or pull them out of a hat for the bottom 8 teams. The AFL has again implemented structures that make a mockery of the game.
If what Libba was saying is true then it's nothing less than match fixing, the charges and accusations levelled at Roos recently, and Goodwin and the other guys previously(betting) seem even more ridiculous and bloody minded when compared to this stupid policy of draft pick selection. The AFL has set a process in place that is wide open for manipulation that resonates through the fabric of the game, being, you play to win! Then they refuse to admit they lacked foresight of any ramifications on the game their descisions may have had and therefore changes that need to be made.
How would this have been handled if it was West Coast or Sydney tanking to this degree. This looks, again, like there's different rules for different people / clubs in this comp.
What a disgraceful farce!

[westozfalcon]

That idea Judd put forward is the best solution but it's not his own pearl of wisdom. I've heard that suggestion many times before and the NBA operates the same way over in the States.

By the way does anyone know the origin of the term 'tanking' ?

[hearts on fire]

i actually like Stumps' idea. Very fair and is the best solution.

Best idea i've heard by far!

[Rik E Boy]

That idea Judd put forward is the best solution but it's not his own pearl of wisdom. I've heard that suggestion many times before and the NBA operates the same way over in the States.

By the way does anyone know the origin of the term 'tanking' ?

In 100 years of Australian Football, there is a reference to the term tanking during the early years of the 20th Century so the term is not a new one. I believe the club involved was Carlton LOL.

regards,

REB

[Killa]

Come on tanking is a bad word. I'm sure Carlton wanted to lose by giving younger players game time to see if they have it or not.

[blink]

That idea Judd put forward is the best solution but it's not his own pearl of wisdom. I've heard that suggestion many times before and the NBA operates the same way over in the States.

I don't think I ever suggested that it was Judd's idea - just a solution he put forward!

In thinking about it further however, it might not really solve the problem at all....

For example, a team sitting in 12th spot would be the fifth bottom club. Therefore they are automatically alloted the 5th draft pick - but what is to stop them tanking to finish in the bottom four to secure one of the top four draft picks?
It really is a conundrum that the AFL is going to have a tough time trying to fix.

[westozfalcon]

That idea Judd put forward is the best solution but it's not his own pearl of wisdom. I've heard that suggestion many times before and the NBA operates the same way over in the States.

I don't think I ever suggested that it was Judd's idea - just a solution he put forward!

In thinking about it further however, it might not really solve the problem at all....

For example, a team sitting in 12th spot would be the fifth bottom club. Therefore they are automatically alloted the 5th draft pick - but what is to stop them tanking to finish in the bottom four to secure one of the top four draft picks?
It really is a conundrum that the AFL is going to have a tough time trying to fix.

Correct, you never said yourself that it was Judd's idea. I was critiscizing Judd for making out the idea to be his own.

On your point about tanking into the bottom four, that is possible but at least there would be no certainty of the order of draft picks which is what the bottom teams are feeding off at present.

Also, priority picks for winning 5 games or less needs to be abolished.

[Sojourner]

Ideally the first round draft pick should be awarded to the club that finishes first in the home and away season rather than the last club, let the bottom clubs have early picks for sure, yet the best picks should be earnt not given as charity.

[GWW]

Ideally the first round draft pick should be awarded to the club that finishes first in the home and away season rather than the last club, let the bottom clubs have early picks for sure, yet the best picks should be earnt not given as charity.

Does make more sense, because it rewards success, but it goes against the AFL's socialism policy, as it basically makes the strong clubs stronger instead of the other way around.

[silicone skyline]

I've rocked up to a few games where plenty of us have been tanked.

[finn]

what about a system whereby from a particular year a draft order is developed according to a win/loss ratio over the previous 10 years or by a random draw?

eg from 2010 the first club gets number 1 in 2010 then in 2011 gets number 16, then number 2 then 15 then 3 then 14. every club then is assured a number 1 pick over the space of 16 years.
theoretically each club's first round draft numbers tally 17 over two years balancing one year's high pick with a corresponding lower pick the next year.

The picks can be traded and priority picks can occur if a team say wins 7 games or less over a period of 2 years. these priority picks occur after the first draft round. It also seems to accord neatly with the AFL's wish for draws etc to be equal over time.

i'll call it the chardonnay system.

[CUTTERMAN]

Finn, mate you've lost me, I've had a few cold soothers but I didn't think it was that many. So is that a rolling 10 years or an every decade sort of thingy? Sounds like the Duckworth-Lewis System for footy!
Sojourner, that is one of the best ideas I've heard for a long time concerning the AFL, it rewards longevity to the club by going all minor round and we need something to reward that club, maybe call the minor round cup and the1st round draft pick after someone, not a R1 dud though. I'll leave that one open for comment.

[Punk Rooster]

Once a bunch of cheating bar5stards, always a bunch of cheating bar5tards, or is Libba just a 'bitter little garden gnome' as I have heard one disgruntled Carlton fan discribe him.

regards,

REB

bit of column A, bit of column B...

[stan]

To be honest libba could have said anything that night and well it would still have the beat up. Carlton have been poor for years, and good of course it was going to fit. Heck a trainer could come out and say something like they wanted to lose and all this would be the same.

[mighty_tiger_79]

every club in the situation carlton were last year would TANK and then start planning for the next season.

theres one game that stands out about TANKING and i think it was v collingwood and carlton lost by 9 points and fev was takin off the ground late in the game..........

[Mr66]

Beat up.
Teams, regardless of what comp,AFL,SANFL,WAFL, amateurs etc.., always prepare for the next season when they realise the current one is a lost cause.
Two reasons why this gets blown out of proportion;
1/ The 'reward' for finishing lower on the ladder is much greater than the pre-draft/early draft days because the player(s) that a club pick up, are of better standard,
& 2/ Media competition. 24 Hour radio (SEN) & TV (FoxSport News) means that more (hot)airtime
needs to be used.

[Roylion]

I tend to favor a lottery type ballot for the first eight draft picks for the non-finalists.

Assuming eight non finalists. 36 balls in the lottery. The bottom team has eight of the 36 balls. This gives them a 22% chance of picking up the No. 1 draft pick. The second bottom team has seven balls giving them a 19% chance. The ninth team has just under a 3% chance of picking up the first round draft pick.

Alternatively if all 16 teams were entered in a lottery using the same system, the chances would range from about 11.5% for the bottom team picking up the first draft pick. The chances of the premier (having only one ball of 136 balls) picking up the first draft pick would be 0.007%