ST KILDA IN 2007 THOMAS+ LYON

[mal]

NINTH

Once again another disappointing season for the Sainters
Many thought the sacking of THOMAS and the new coach LYON would improve the club
I disagreed and have been proven mainly right
SK had less injuries this year and should have finished top4
THOMAS after a couple of Prelim final finishes and a top 8 finish last year had done a fair job
LYON missed the finals and has no excuses

Instead of blaming the 2 coaches it is more practible to delve into the core problems
CULTURE
LACK OF OVERALL SUCCESS
DISCIPLINE
TELSTRA DOOM
CLEARING GREAT PLAYERS TO OTHER CLUBS[lockett/hall/everitt/gowans twins]

SUMMARY
----------

No ordinary/good coach will obtain a flag until the core probs are RATified
The club therefore needs a coach to go in and make courageous decisions

2008 ? need a new coach and a new oval in my book

[Mr66]

Agree, although the Gowans are a bit of a stretch.

[Hondo]

Agree, although the Gowans are a bit of a stretch.

I'm not sure they were 'let go' by the Saints altho that's often the perception

All AFL clubs had plenty of time to re-draft them if they wanted this last 7-8 years

[Hondo]

St Kilda's last 11 games were 7 wins 1 draw 3 losses I think so that should give the club some positive impetus for 2008

Lyon has brought a new, more accountable, game style to the free flowing Saints of the Thomas era and the players seem to have taken a while to adjust, plus they had a horrendus injury run in the first half of the year.

End of next season will be a better time to judge Ross Lyon IMO.

[mal]

GOWANS should have been followed with

[mal]

St Kilda's last 11 games were 7 wins 1 draw 3 losses I think so that should give the club some positive impetus for 2008

Lyon has brought a new, more accountable, game style to the free flowing Saints of the Thomas era and the players seem to have taken a while to adjust, plus they had a horrendus injury run in the first half of the year.

End of next season will be a better time to judge Ross Lyon IMO.

And were virtually injury free in the 2nd half of the year
And injury free for the first time in years in that time

[Mr66]

End of next season will be a better time to judge Ross Lyon IMO.

Yeah, it will confirm that he's a dud.

[CUTTERMAN]

Compare the Saints to Adelaide since 1997/1998. While the Crows were competitive the Saints went through 4 coaches and numerous years on the bottom picking up top 10 draft picks hoping it was the answer. The problem is that, as mentioned, the culture is not one of success. Something that Blight was trying to change and got sacked for. IMHO while they have Ron Butters(not sure on his last name) leading the club they will be in disarray, what a rabble! Lack of leadership in the club allow stupid decisions like keeping Hamil on the list when he hasn't been able to play half a season for 3 years now and drafting Gardiner who hasn't played a game this year and lacks character, perfect fit for the Sainters!
Adelaide, as an example, haven't had many top 10 draft pics, haven't sat on the bottom and have been very competitive in the last 10 years.
You could use Port as a comparison also.

[Sojourner]

The perception that I get is that a number of players on their list still seem to be quite friendly with ex coach Grant Thomas, which no doubt causes political problems at the club whether they want to admit it or not.

Maybe when Kevin Morris has finished his review of the South Adelaide Football Club, St Kilda should have him go repeat the process there and see what answers he can turn up!

[CUTTERMAN]

The perception that I get is that a number of players on their list still seem to be quite friendly with ex coach Grant Thomas, which no doubt causes political problems at the club whether they want to admit it or not.

Maybe when Kevin Morris has finished his review of the South Adelaide Football Club, St Kilda should have him go repeat the process there and see what answers he can turn up!

Just how much time has Morris got on his hands? How long is a piece of string? But I'm sure St Kilda will think that's an A1 descision on behalf of the board to implement for the successful continuation of such a proffessional organisation.

[sydney-dog]

how did I know that this thread was going to be raised

in all seriousness, I believe next year is the year to fairly judge Lyon

Lyon took over the list and had to plug holes, for example no ruckman, Lyon was forced to recruit Gardiner and Clarke to fill this void. Not to mention in the first half of the year Lyon had to manage a host of injured players, and I strongly believe that most of these injuries, to players such as Hamill and Clark were the result of poor player management under Thomas

Lets keep the wolves at bay and Judge Lyon on 2008

[haloman]

how did I know that this thread was going to be raised

in all seriousness, I believe next year is the year to fairly judge Lyon

Lyon took over the list and had to plug holes, for example no ruckman, Lyon was forced to recruit Gardiner and Clarke to fill this void. Not to mention in the first half of the year Lyon had to manage a host of injured players, and I strongly believe that most of these injuries, to players such as Hamill and Clark were the result of poor player management under Thomas

Lets keep the wolves at bay and Judge Lyon on 2008

That a pritty fair comparison I'd reckon!

[CUTTERMAN]

Not judging Lyon at all, I think he's done an ok job and should do better next year IF he is allowed to run things as he see's fit and not how the muppets in the boardroom want things to be done.

[am Bays]

Going to be a looooonng summer for the Saints....

Watch them implode in their typical Saints style.....

http://realfooty.com.au/news/news/st-kilda-new-challengers/2007/09/03/1188783158069.html

[Mr66]

Going to be a looooonng summer for the Saints....

Watch them implode in their typical Saints style.....

http://realfooty.com.au/news/news/st-kilda-new-challengers/2007/09/03/1188783158069.html

Tell me about it.
The more things change......the more STK stays the same.

[Pup]

NINTH

Once again another disappointing season for the Sainters
Many thought the sacking of THOMAS and the new coach LYON would improve the club
I disagreed and have been proven mainly right
SK had less injuries this year and should have finished top4
THOMAS after a couple of Prelim final finishes and a top 8 finish last year had done a fair job
LYON missed the finals and has no excuses

Instead of blaming the 2 coaches it is more practible to delve into the core problems
CULTURE
LACK OF OVERALL SUCCESS
DISCIPLINE
TELSTRA DOOM
CLEARING GREAT PLAYERS TO OTHER CLUBS[lockett/hall/everitt/gowans twins]

SUMMARY
----------

No ordinary/good coach will obtain a flag until the core probs are RATified
The club therefore needs a coach to go in and make courageous decisions

2008 ? need a new coach and a new oval in my book

The Oval is not the problem,

In My opinion one of the major problems is there List, Interested to hear St Kilda fans thoughts on this but this is how i see it.

Gone
* Fraser Gehrig
* Andrew Thompson
* Matthew Clarke
* Possibly Harvey and Hamill

Players who are Trade Bait or Delistings

* X Clarke- Will probably stay at Saints but is one who will have a little market value, everyone knows he is talented and has great potential, but his injuries must be a real worry, he plays 2 good games then does a hamstring or a quad and misses the next 4, If they dont trade him now and this keeps happening he may find his career a lot shorter than he hopes.

* Raph Clarke- I dont rate at all, Slow, not overly hard, and makes some terrible decisons, he was highly fancied but has shown no signs of rising to the level to be a good AFL player. I think he may get 1 more year but lets hope for his sake he has a big season.

* James Gwilt- Had a break out Finals series in 2005 and has dropped off the radar almost completely, must be in trouble.

* Stephen Milne- Grant Thomas made it public that he was gone if he had stayed on this year. His football has improved of late but still far too inconsistent, one week 4 the next 4 weeks 0-1. Just not good enough for a small forward. a young player might be able to fill his role.

* Fergus Watts- Was homesick, left Adelaide for more chances and went to a side with Gehrig, Riewoldt, Kosi, hamill and co. It was a choice that i didnt understand and after missing last yr with injury and not playing this year is there still a spot for him on the list next year? Maybe 1 last chance.

* Barry Brooks- I honestly dont understand why he is not getting a game, he is playing really well with the Scorpions and is holding down the KPP. Is he a goose at training, because the Saints refuse to play him as did Port. Will be kept but purely because Gehrig retired and they need a replacement, lets hope he gets an extended run to prove himself.

* Michael Gardiner- Has been given another year and from all reports was flying before he got struck down with injury. Has to play 15-20 Decent games next year to stay on the list.

*Sweeney- Young bloke who has not got the oppurtunities may be in Trouble..?

*Jones- From the WAFL, a mature age rookie who is to old to keep on the list next year unless they elevate him. He has played six games and in most looked out of his depth, his kicking is average in the WAFL, and terrible in the AFL and is not overly hard. I actually like him but think he might be gone.

Rix- Gone, just cant afford to keep him, he doesnt do enough and is not getting any younger. In my eyes no chance of staying.

Raymond- Gone, no chance of being Retained

McQualter- Reasonably early pick who has not really amounted to anything much to be honest, may be trade bait but cant see the club getting anything in return for him. So might be worth perservering with.

* Brett Voss might retire as well..

Now i realise you cant cut this many and with 3 def retiring you could only delist 5.

My Prediction is Sweeney, Raymond, Brooks, Voss, Gehrig, Thompson and Clarke all gone.

IMO they need to target a quality ruckmen in the mould of Charman, a quality back to take over from Maxy in the next 2 years.

[McAlmanac]

Saints won 7 of their last 11. If Collingwood had squeezed a win in Round 22, this debate wouldn't exist.

As stated, a quality ruckman (difficult to find) and a key defender will place them well. Gardiner is the key. I'd go for big Kosi at full forward to replace Gehrig - a fantastic grab and reasonably reliable kick.

[Magpies_Forever]

Agree, although the Gowans are a bit of a stretch.

They only got rid of them when the Reserves comp finished. If it was another year later they may of got a league game but each club could only keep a few of their reserves players and they just happened to be two of them.

[Magpies_Forever]

This season was very disapointing for us we through away the game against west coast, we should never have turned a lead that big into defeat.

Agree with those outs Pup except for Voss.

Milne althogh he has not been kicking goals this season has started to play more around the field so i have no problem with him. A ruckman is our main problem. We used Kosi as our ruckman this year but he needs to be used in other positions such as up forward and to cover any holes in defence we get through injuries.
Brooks should have been used more this year i agree.
Also Watts Deseverves a chance in the league side next season.

[saintal]

This season was very disapointing for us we through away the game against west coast, we should never have turned a lead that big into defeat.

Agree with those outs Pup except for Voss.

Milne althogh he has not been kicking goals this season has started to play more around the field so i have no problem with him. A ruckman is our main problem. We used Kosi as our ruckman this year but he needs to be used in other positions such as up forward and to cover any holes in defence we get through injuries.
Brooks should have been used more this year i agree.
Also Watts Deseverves a chance in the league side next season.

Agree with all of the above

Threw away too many games during the year (the collingwood + eagles ones killed us).

I'd have Vossy in my 22.