the fall out from the saints and the cats

[Thiele]

Baker has accepted 5 match ban on two of his charges and he will fight the other two charges

[mighty hounds]

didnt johnson brake his hand during the game? baker is a dirty player and i hate his guts i hope he gets 12. by far the most dirtyness player ive seen in my time. johnson had enough of his crap and he got wat he deserved.

[CoverKing]

Johnson probably wouldnt even be available for the next 3 games with his broken hand. Smart move by Geelong to accept the ban and reduce it with the Guilty plea, instead of challenging it, which the could have with Judd getting off the week before being so similar!

[Thiele]

Baker has accepted 5 match ban on two of his charges and he will fight the other two charges

Baker has accepted to another charge so he is up to misssing 7 weeks

[Thiele]

Baker gets 9 weeks. Wont play until finals now

[White Line Fever]

Injuries are fair game for target IMO, but I am also a bit of a **** too.

Well said Quichey.
I'm the same as you! If they're out there and they're injured, I'm gonna have a crack at it.
I need all the help I can get!

If you can’t beat and injured player legitimately then you are a chump and should give the game away. Play the game on its merit, if you’re not good enough so be it!

Mate, I've played with broken bones before and if someone targeted them to put me off my game then kudos to them for trying to get a mental edge. No point whinging about it once you've crossed that white line.

You target weakness.
If you're slow I would expose you in the lead. Unfit i'd run you into the ground. Skinny i will push you around. Dumb then play smart. Injured then i will expose your weakness.
If you can't handle it then how selfish of you that you put your hand up to play to your 21 team mates but you are not strong enough to play out the game.
People who complain are downright SOFT.
The greatest players of all time are brutal, uncompromising players Lethal, Carey, Diesel, Plugger even Judd these days.

[am Bays]

Crap

Toughness is keeping your head over the ball when you know you are going to get whacked a la McDermott/Ginevar, staying under the ball when you know it cop an on-coming G Ablett in a GF a la Dipper in '89, Riewoldt or Wanganeen running back with the flight into oncoming traffic to take Marks.

Lethal, Wlliams, Carey, Brown, Ablett Judd etc have got their reputations for doing the above not for whacking blokes.

Hitting and Scragging blokes isn't tough, it is admitting your don't have the footballing skills to beat your opponent or the desire to get to the footy first.

2nd/3rd umpre should have paid a free kick first up and wouldn't have got to this.

[jointman]

Johnson probably wouldnt even be available for the next 3 games with his broken hand. Smart move by Geelong to accept the ban and reduce it with the Guilty plea, instead of challenging it, which the could have with Judd getting off the week before being so similar!

i'm surprised he got 3 for that elbow,doesn't the tribunal go by what damage his done,was a fair wack,should of been a minumum of 5 weeks going by the injury he caused

[jointman]

Crap

Toughness is keeping your head over the ball when you know you are going to get whacked a la McDermott/Ginevar, staying under the ball when you know it cop an on-coming G Ablett in a GF a la Dipper in '89, Riewoldt or Wanganeen running back with the flight into oncoming traffic to take Marks.

Lethal, Wlliams, Carey, Brown, Ablett Judd etc have got their reputations for doing the above not for whacking blokes.

Hitting and Scragging blokes isn't tough, it is admitting your don't have the footballing skills to beat your opponent or the desire to get to the footy first.

2nd/3rd umpre should have paid a free kick first up and wouldn't have got to this.

williams never cracked a bloke yeah rite!!!!

[White Line Fever]

Crap

Toughness is keeping your head over the ball when you know you are going to get whacked a la McDermott/Ginevar, staying under the ball when you know it cop an on-coming G Ablett in a GF a la Dipper in '89, Riewoldt or Wanganeen running back with the flight into oncoming traffic to take Marks.

Lethal, Wlliams, Carey, Brown, Ablett Judd etc have got their reputations for doing the above not for whacking blokes.

Hitting and Scragging blokes isn't tough, it is admitting your don't have the footballing skills to beat your opponent or the desire to get to the footy first.

2nd/3rd umpre should have paid a free kick first up and wouldn't have got to this.

That is one aspect of 'toughness' as you say.
The players you mention (maybe not Ablett Jr) have the total package.
'Tough' is playing through injuries without showing weakness, copping punishment, dishing out punishment when it's their to be given.
Diesel couldn't take a contested overhead mark, Jonny Brown couldn't rack up 35 pozzys, Judd won't kick a bag of 10.
Every player contributes to the team in a way seemed fit by the coach.
Baker is the antagonist tagger. Get in the head and put off the player. A required player to their success.
Good on him, and good on Saints.
They won the game so kudos to Baker.

[Punk Rooster]

I reckon Steven Milne has written Stevie Baker the biggest thank-you letter ever...

[Media Park]

I reckon Steven Milne has written Stevie Baker the biggest thank-you letter ever...

Gold post!

[am Bays]

Crap

Toughness is keeping your head over the ball when you know you are going to get whacked a la McDermott/Ginevar, staying under the ball when you know it cop an on-coming G Ablett in a GF a la Dipper in '89, Riewoldt or Wanganeen running back with the flight into oncoming traffic to take Marks.

Lethal, Wlliams, Carey, Brown, Ablett Judd etc have got their reputations for doing the above not for whacking blokes.

Hitting and Scragging blokes isn't tough, it is admitting your don't have the footballing skills to beat your opponent or the desire to get to the footy first.

2nd/3rd umpre should have paid a free kick first up and wouldn't have got to this.

williams never cracked a bloke yeah rite!!!!

Never said all of tehm were angels. However they got their reputations for doing the above, their reputations were't gained by when they crossed the line and "whacked" blokes. Then they got criticised and copped their penalty.

[am Bays]

Crap

Toughness is keeping your head over the ball when you know you are going to get whacked a la McDermott/Ginevar, staying under the ball when you know it cop an on-coming G Ablett in a GF a la Dipper in '89, Riewoldt or Wanganeen running back with the flight into oncoming traffic to take Marks.

Lethal, Wlliams, Carey, Brown, Ablett Judd etc have got their reputations for doing the above not for whacking blokes.

Hitting and Scragging blokes isn't tough, it is admitting your don't have the footballing skills to beat your opponent or the desire to get to the footy first.

2nd/3rd umpre should have paid a free kick first up and wouldn't have got to this.

That is one aspect of 'toughness' as you say.
The players you mention (maybe not Ablett Jr) have the total package.
'Tough' is playing through injuries without showing weakness, copping punishment, dishing out punishment when it's their to be given.
Diesel couldn't take a contested overhead mark, Jonny Brown couldn't rack up 35 pozzys, Judd won't kick a bag of 10.
Every player contributes to the team in a way seemed fit by the coach.
Baker is the antagonist tagger. Get in the head and put off the player. A required player to their success.
Good on him, and good on Saints.
They won the game so kudos to Baker.

If you define punishment as pumping or a hip and shoulder within the rules yep I agree (and I include charging as within the rules even though it currently isn't). However dishing out punishment by appendages is not tough especially when off the ball.

Your first two examples of tough I agree with.

Yes players contribute to the team and their is a place for taggers but that doesn't include whacking blokes - its not tough its piss-weak and if properly umpired will cost his team goals

[White Line Fever]

Crap

Toughness is keeping your head over the ball when you know you are going to get whacked a la McDermott/Ginevar, staying under the ball when you know it cop an on-coming G Ablett in a GF a la Dipper in '89, Riewoldt or Wanganeen running back with the flight into oncoming traffic to take Marks.

Lethal, Wlliams, Carey, Brown, Ablett Judd etc have got their reputations for doing the above not for whacking blokes.

Hitting and Scragging blokes isn't tough, it is admitting your don't have the footballing skills to beat your opponent or the desire to get to the footy first.

2nd/3rd umpre should have paid a free kick first up and wouldn't have got to this.

That is one aspect of 'toughness' as you say.
The players you mention (maybe not Ablett Jr) have the total package.
'Tough' is playing through injuries without showing weakness, copping punishment, dishing out punishment when it's their to be given.
Diesel couldn't take a contested overhead mark, Jonny Brown couldn't rack up 35 pozzys, Judd won't kick a bag of 10.
Every player contributes to the team in a way seemed fit by the coach.
Baker is the antagonist tagger. Get in the head and put off the player. A required player to their success.
Good on him, and good on Saints.
They won the game so kudos to Baker.

If you define punishment as pumping or a hip and shoulder within the rules yep I agree (and I include charging as within the rules even though it currently isn't). However dishing out punishment by appendages is not tough especially when off the ball.

Your first two examples of tough I agree with.

Yes players contribute to the team and their is a place for taggers but that doesn't include whacking blokes - its not tough its piss-weak and if properly umpired will cost his team goals

But by whacking blokes do you mean the king hits leading to KOs or just love taps to unsettle a player?

I hardly think Baker used his full force at any point.
I agree completely that the 'whack' at full force behind play is piss-weak.
I just don't think Baker falls into that category ALA Hall.

[am Bays]

WLF, this is where you and I are going to disagree, I think he crossed the line of force especially the one to the chin (which is the one St Kilda fell on the sword tonight at the tribunal as they pleady guilty after seeing the vision) and one of the kidney punches. In those I don't think he decelerated.

I don't think any of them were love taps.

I think some of the ones to the hands were love taps but he wasn't reported for striking the [injured] hand he was reported for misconduct.

[am Bays]

it is interesting to read the Age today. Saint Kilda and baker have been punished by previous cases they ahve been involved in at the tribunal.

In 2006 they changed the rules so that rather than treating each charge and the points accrued individually after Baker was up on multiple charges. They changed the rules so the points were added together and the suspension worked out from there.

The application of the misconduct charge for attacking injured players came into being after Brisbane targetted an injured Rieweldt when he had a broken collar bone and tried to play on.

[White Line Fever]

WLF, this is where you and I are going to disagree, I think he crossed the line of force especially the one to the chin (which is the one St Kilda fell on the sword tonight at the tribunal as they pleady guilty after seeing the vision) and one of the kidney punches. In those I don't think he decelerated.

I don't think any of them were love taps.

I think some of the ones to the hands were love taps but he wasn't reported for striking the [injured] hand he was reported for misconduct.

I will agree to disagree.
I concede what he did was wrong and misconduct is appropriate...
I don't believe 9 games if fitting to the crime.
The elbow was alot worse, as you can see by the after effects, and 3-4 games is on the money.
But 9... i'm still shaking my head.
Anyway play on

[Strawb]

Johnson played on with a broken Hand. All Baker did was target that hand but he also was punching and hitting Johnson. Both are in the wrong but Baker's priors have hurt him alot under this new system. And BTW what a shiner on baker

[Mr Beefy]

Johnson probably wouldnt even be available for the next 3 games with his broken hand. Smart move by Geelong to accept the ban and reduce it with the Guilty plea, instead of challenging it, which the could have with Judd getting off the week before being so similar!

i'm surprised he got 3 for that elbow,doesn't the tribunal go by what damage his done,was a fair wack,should of been a minumum of 5 weeks going by the injury he caused

Crap J-man, it's a cut above the eye, not a fractured eye socket. He kept playing, he wont miss weeks because of it...but he will miss miss weeks