SA Footy

kickinit wrote:

Red Rocket wrote:Like most people id like to see Essendon struggle at the bottom but not at the expense of justice.
At the start of this saga I must confess I judged them as guilty but the more this whole farce has gone on I get the feeling that most of it has been a media beatup and they are scapegoats. I still think the club and Hird acted poorly and that Hird probably shouldnt come back but im yet to be convinced they did anything other than run program that is unethical.
This Harcourt stuff in the last few days is a disgrace and if true it paints a horrible picture of the AFL. they haf an inkling Essendon were close to the edge and chose to send off blood samples secretly but were not prepared to step in and stop it, they waited nearly 12 months until Essendon self reported. By doing this hasnt the AFL breached its own codes of confuct and duty of care to players?
Im no lawyer but ASADA's case is full of holes and I believe Essendon had a couple of wins today and ASADA are required to hand over plenty of documents. I can see this whole case falling over and ASADA having to start again.
At worst players will cop 6 month bans but ive got a feeling they may escape altogether

The case won't fall over. 1 thing is ASADA is a government organisation, second thing is Essendon are about to wake up a sleeping giant WADA. WADA won't be to far off stepping in. If Essendon are innocent like they claim then they would never be fighting it in court.

Red Rocket wrote:

kickinit wrote:

Red Rocket wrote:Like most people id like to see Essendon struggle at the bottom but not at the expense of justice.
At the start of this saga I must confess I judged them as guilty but the more this whole farce has gone on I get the feeling that most of it has been a media beatup and they are scapegoats. I still think the club and Hird acted poorly and that Hird probably shouldnt come back but im yet to be convinced they did anything other than run program that is unethical.
This Harcourt stuff in the last few days is a disgrace and if true it paints a horrible picture of the AFL. they haf an inkling Essendon were close to the edge and chose to send off blood samples secretly but were not prepared to step in and stop it, they waited nearly 12 months until Essendon self reported. By doing this hasnt the AFL breached its own codes of confuct and duty of care to players?
Im no lawyer but ASADA's case is full of holes and I believe Essendon had a couple of wins today and ASADA are required to hand over plenty of documents. I can see this whole case falling over and ASADA having to start again.
At worst players will cop 6 month bans but ive got a feeling they may escape altogether

The case won't fall over. 1 thing is ASADA is a government organisation, second thing is Essendon are about to wake up a sleeping giant WADA. WADA won't be to far off stepping in. If Essendon are innocent like they claim then they would never be fighting it in court.

Dont know about you but if I believed I was innocent I would do everything in my power to be proven innocent.
Ive gone to court over a $45 parking fine before so if I was charged as being a drug cheat id do everything possible to clear my name.
Yes it looks like a stalling tactic by Essendon but if they believe they are innocent then they deserve to fight it in court, it doesnt matter that ASADA are a government agency or not they still have to operate by the law and I think everyone would admit some of their procedures are not great and if they have gathered information illegally than the case should be thrown out.
Its then up to ASADA to start fresh and go about properly, if they do this and all evidence leads to them as taking banned drugs then give them a 2 year ban. I think Essendon now get to see the documents outlining what charges the players face and what evidence ASADA has, this seems bizarre that the judge would grant this.
As you said though WADA may come in over the top anyway.

kickinit wrote:

cracka wrote:

kickinit wrote:Just remember him lance Armstrong never tested positive to drug test, even when they where trying to get him. Also the substance isn't a banned substance because it's been proven to be performance enhancing. It's banned because there hasn't been any testing done on it. Meaning no one has the correct method for testing samples. A lot of drug cheats never test positive for this simple fact, they are using substances that the testers don't know about.

He also knew he was taking banned substances, was actually the instigator of their drug program & deliberately tried to get away with it. I dont believe the players are at fault here & shouldn't be penalised. The club, Hird & especially Dank should cop all punishments.

The players are well and truly at fault. The players knew exactly what they where given. Players aren't dumb when it comes to doping, they do sit through programs which teaches them about it and what to do. First thing that rings alarm bells is injections, you can pretty much guarantee anything you need to inject is illegal. Secondly to find out whether or not a substance is banned or not is pretty dam simple and can be done within 5mins.

cracka wrote:Bullsh!t the players are at fault. No one knows what they were given yet & wont know until Dank talks. Players get injections all the time during games for pain relief etc, so not everything injected is illegal.

kickinit wrote:Just remember him lance Armstrong never tested positive to drug test, even when they where trying to get him. Also the substance isn't a banned substance because it's been proven to be performance enhancing. It's banned because there hasn't been any testing done on it. Meaning no one has the correct method for testing samples. A lot of drug cheats never test positive for this simple fact, they are using substances that the testers don't know about.

dedja wrote:

kickinit wrote:Just remember him lance Armstrong never tested positive to drug test, even when they where trying to get him. Also the substance isn't a banned substance because it's been proven to be performance enhancing. It's banned because there hasn't been any testing done on it. Meaning no one has the correct method for testing samples. A lot of drug cheats never test positive for this simple fact, they are using substances that the testers don't know about.

Incorrect, he DID test positive but bullshitted his way out of it and possibly bribed officials.

dedja wrote:The script from the doc was falsified to cover the positive test

kickinit wrote:

dedja wrote:The script from the doc was falsified to cover the positive test

He tested positive a couple of times over a entire tour, also have completing negative test in between. testers where happy with the results, as they said they would expect to see that from using that cream. He was never charged with a positive test. If they thought it was crap they would of banned him back in 1999.

JK wrote:You probably have the best group of non-household names, if that makes sense.

I don't rate Collingwood particularly highly this year, but like you I thought trying to cover BJ, JW, and MH would be too big an ask.

I know you've mixed your form in the last two seasons, but it's included several gutsy wins, and your younger players are getting more experienced .. A coupla good drafts/recruits in the off-season and I reckon you should be up among the challengers next season.

JK wrote:Ahh, forgot about the draft sanctions, that will hurt.

Ron Burgundy wrote:2014 been a big enough roller coaster for you Jimbo?!