Adelaide Season 2011

[csbowes]

Crows simply don't have the balls to sack Craig.

There's nothing seriously wrong with him, he's just not the future.

Laidley was great at North, but his time was up, he wasn't going to take us the extra step.

Carman was BRILLIANT at Sturt, but his time was up, he wasn't going to take us the extra step.

Craig has had a good run, but he's lost his way, the club is just wasiting years and wasting potentially good players, they need to grab their nutsack and make the hard decision and put in someone else to see what they can do.

Put in Bassett...

... or persuade Laird to get off his lazy arse and test himself.

There's options out there, they just have to take the chance (though I'm quite happy to see them stay crap).

[JK]

How are Crow fans seeing van Berlo as skipper to this point?

For mine, he has stalled in his development as a player and is now a mere "run with" player who offers little offensively. There was a time 12-18 months ago that he was bound for greater things but seems to be at a stand still.

The captaincy weighing him down, injured, just out of form? What is it?

Adelaides faltering mid-field desperately needs him to find the ball and run the lines, just isn't happening and Thompson is having to do all the hard work.

van Berlo may do all the right behind the scenes things as skipper and set an example at training but he's one of those players who's only been servicable and will continue to be consistently so. Yes, he'll do the odd shining thing as he's got talent (as does everybody whom plays consistently at that level) but, to me, he should be one of the last 6-7 selected - the icing if you will - rather than one of the first.
His ongoing attacking midfield role highlights the defiency Adelaide face in there; he's usually good at getting the ball but he can make some awful decisions.

IMHO, his greatest attributes are courage and a big tank and that's about it .. Skills are average and decision making not much better, might aswell develop him for that run-with role played by Stenglein, Shirley and Reilly in the last 10 years.

[stan]

Jacobs won that many taps last night it wasnt funny but the crows got killed out of the middle. Small problem there, Thompson, Dangerfield and Vince need to learn to work with Jacobs. It cant be that hard because the bulldogs were able to work with him last night. That brings up another Point, Dangerfield needs to play in the middle, its simple he goes and gets the ball. By all means let him rest in the forward line, but still in the middle for most of the game.

[sapaul]

Seems that every week the Crows drop their bundle in the last 1/4, the Dogs played a very average game tonight and still ran all over the Crows. Think there are more questions than answers at the AFC at the moment - please Neil don't come out to the press conference and tell us that you were beaten by "a very powerful side" again....

Have you changed the AFL team you support?

[stan]

The crows need wholesale changes but wont make any except for a few obvious ones. Sellar and Moran should probably be gone to make room for some younger players to get more of a run.
Schmitt any good? not sure really, need to look at that one a bit. Henderson probably was under the pump a bit but friday night he did play his best game for the year. With the forward line they really need to sort of what they are going to do. It appears that they have the right players but not in the right positions. Of course the injuries have hurt them a bit but still.

[Gingernuts]

The crows need wholesale changes but wont make any except for a few obvious ones. Sellar and Moran should probably be gone to make room for some younger players to get more of a run.
Schmitt any good? not sure really, need to look at that one a bit. Henderson probably was under the pump a bit but friday night he did play his best game for the year. With the forward line they really need to sort of what they are going to do. It appears that they have the right players but not in the right positions. Of course the injuries have hurt them a bit but still.

The Crows don't need wholesale changes. They just need to keep fronting up each week and adding to the games tally. I think the list is good, just young and inexperienced. Over the next couple of seasons players will settle into positions and the team will become a balanced outfit. Henderson on the wing Friday night was an excellent example. Supporters just have to grit their teeth and harden up. This is the first down time the club has had since it's inception. It's times like this that being a real supporter is all about IMO.

[Footy Smart]

The crows need wholesale changes but wont make any except for a few obvious ones. Sellar and Moran should probably be gone to make room for some younger players to get more of a run.
Schmitt any good? not sure really, need to look at that one a bit. Henderson probably was under the pump a bit but friday night he did play his best game for the year. With the forward line they really need to sort of what they are going to do. It appears that they have the right players but not in the right positions. Of course the injuries have hurt them a bit but still.

The Crows don't need wholesale changes. They just need to keep fronting up each week and adding to the games tally. I think the list is good, just young and inexperienced. Over the next couple of seasons players will settle into positions and the team will become a balanced outfit. Henderson on the wing Friday night was an excellent example. Supporters just have to grit their teeth and harden up. This is the first down time the club has had since it's inception. It's times like this that being a real supporter is all about IMO.

exactly, well said GN.

Patience is the key!

I remember watching Geelong running around Kardinia park getting beaten and basically the same team played in a premiership 2-3 years later. G Ablett and P Chapman had hair! Kelly, Varco, Wojinski, Otten, Mooney, Stokes, Enright, Hunt, Milburn, Corey, Stevie J, Scarlett all in the team chasing guernseys!

Then all would have had 80-100 games under their belt when they started hitting their straps as a unit!

[AFLflyer]

just think about the backline changes in the last two season.

No - Bock, goodwin, mcleod, davis (this yr) stevens (this yr)
The amount of rebound these guys gave was massive, in particular goodwin, macca and bock. It's pretty much rutten and johncock alone now!

The crows were over estimated at the start of the year, mainly because of the draw. Reality has hit, now it's time to be realistic and rebuild.

[stan]

The crows need wholesale changes but wont make any except for a few obvious ones. Sellar and Moran should probably be gone to make room for some younger players to get more of a run.
Schmitt any good? not sure really, need to look at that one a bit. Henderson probably was under the pump a bit but friday night he did play his best game for the year. With the forward line they really need to sort of what they are going to do. It appears that they have the right players but not in the right positions. Of course the injuries have hurt them a bit but still.

The Crows don't need wholesale changes. They just need to keep fronting up each week and adding to the games tally. I think the list is good, just young and inexperienced. Over the next couple of seasons players will settle into positions and the team will become a balanced outfit. Henderson on the wing Friday night was an excellent example. Supporters just have to grit their teeth and harden up. This is the first down time the club has had since it's inception. It's times like this that being a real supporter is all about IMO.

exactly, well said GN.

Patience is the key!

I remember watching Geelong running around Kardinia park getting beaten and basically the same team played in a premiership 2-3 years later. G Ablett and P Chapman had hair! Kelly, Varco, Wojinski, Otten, Mooney, Stokes, Enright, Hunt, Milburn, Corey, Stevie J, Scarlett all in the team chasing guernseys!

Then all would have had 80-100 games under their belt when they started hitting their straps as a unit!

Ok granted you have a point, but seriously you might havea a stokes, Monney, Enright, and even a Varco and kelly running around. But in no way do you have anyone that will be of the calibure of say Ablett, Chapman, Steie J or Corey. Just my opinion, hey if I'm wrong then so be it, but I feel the crows have a lot of middle road players that dont seem to be gping anywhere.

Look it could just be a fresh change thats required.

[Media Park]

Love the sig Gingernuts...

Well played mate...

[Mr Beefy]

The crows need wholesale changes but wont make any except for a few obvious ones. Sellar and Moran should probably be gone to make room for some younger players to get more of a run.
Schmitt any good? not sure really, need to look at that one a bit. Henderson probably was under the pump a bit but friday night he did play his best game for the year. With the forward line they really need to sort of what they are going to do. It appears that they have the right players but not in the right positions. Of course the injuries have hurt them a bit but still.

The Crows don't need wholesale changes. They just need to keep fronting up each week and adding to the games tally. I think the list is good, just young and inexperienced. Over the next couple of seasons players will settle into positions and the team will become a balanced outfit. Henderson on the wing Friday night was an excellent example. Supporters just have to grit their teeth and harden up. This is the first down time the club has had since it's inception. It's times like this that being a real supporter is all about IMO.

exactly, well said GN.

Patience is the key!

I remember watching Geelong running around Kardinia park getting beaten and basically the same team played in a premiership 2-3 years later. G Ablett and P Chapman had hair! Kelly, Varco, Wojinski, Otten, Mooney, Stokes, Enright, Hunt, Milburn, Corey, Stevie J, Scarlett all in the team chasing guernseys!

Then all would have had 80-100 games under their belt when they started hitting their straps as a unit!

I understand the point you are making and you are more or less correct about Geelong. However Ottens came to Geelong in 2005, the year we were beaten by Sydney in the finals, Varcoe didn't debut until 2007 and Stokes in 2006. Scarlett & Milburn would have notched up 100 games in the early 2000s.
In the years preceding 2005, these future premiership players were playing with such luminaries as Henry Playfair, Mitchell White, Paul Chambers, Charlie Gardiner, David Haynes, Kent Kingsley, Matthew McCarthy, James Rahilly, etc etc. Unless you clean out the spuds, like Geelong did in the early-mid 2000s and give the kids a go, you'll be average. And I dont reckon you'll find too many future Abletts, Bartels, Coreys, etc. on your list. The cats cashed in on the father-son rule, and had some luck with recruiting and players showed good development.
Adelaide, on the other hand, have a fair number of players that have shown little or no improvement in 2-3 years or are as good as they are going to get. They also have a coach who, I reckon, doesn't give some of them with talent enough game time eg Walker.

[whufc]

If Crows fans think they have the next G.Ablett, Bartel, Selwood, S.Johnson, P.Chapman currently running around they are in for a rude shock.

There is only 2 bloke currently at the Crows who may turn into A-Listers Tippett and Dangerfield. Throw in Johncock and Rutten and i would be surprised if many other players would get a game in any side sitting above them.

Remember the Geelong squad was based around relatively high draft picks or would have been in Abletts case. The group of Adelaide players currently are a couple of mid 10 picks at best followed by alot of 20-50 picks.

Throw in the Gold Coast and GWS factor plus the fact Carlton/Fremantle/West Coast are very very young sides this group of players will not deliver a premiership to Adelaide.

Would be interested to see where Adelaides list sits in age order in the AFL this year.

[Rik E Boy]

Remember the Geelong squad was based around relatively high draft picks or would have been in Abletts case. The group of Adelaide players currently are a couple of mid 10 picks at best followed by alot of 20-50 picks.

The highest draft picks we had in the early noughties was pick seven which we wasted on Kane Tenace. We had a few good father sons but we also had a few absolute duds as well. The majority of Geelong's guns were not high draft picks because we have never finished lower than 12th in our 152 year history.

The reason why Geelong had a good squad and have a good team (including some pretty handy youngsters) is down to Stephen Wells who is more important than departed McConnell, Tudor, Hinkley, Costa, Ablett or Thompson. He's the second most important person down at Catland after Matty Scarlett.

In Wells we trust.

regards,

REB

[Hondo]

I was going to pick whufc up on the point about Geelong's recriting too REB. Jimmy and Joel were top 10 picks but StevieJ and Chappy were around pick 30 from memory.

Carlton had all those early picks but would that have been enough without Judd? StK look to have missed their window now and they have a good quota of early picks too.

Not that you are saying this, but in response to whufc's comments about Adelaide's list. Just because there aren't top 10 picks doesn't mean they can't be successful. I reckon Rendell is a good recruiter and I rate Allan Stewart in the background so I am prepared to back the young Crows in from here. That doesn't mean they will be as good as Geelong obviously.

The other relevant comparison is Collingwood. Pendlebury was pick 5 but Heath Shaw 48 and Swan was 58 . I think the Pies are the benchmark now of how to build a strong side without lots of early draft picks.

[gadj1976]

The ability to win a premiership should never be measured against how many top 10 draft picks you have. There are too many variables to use that as a sole measuring stick.

Yes, having top 10 draft picks is a great advantage but by no means does it ensure you're going to win premierships.

St Kilda, Carlton are prime examples of this to date.

Prior to last year, hadn't there been only 1 No 1 draft pick to win a premiership since drafting began?

[Mr Beefy]

I was going to pick whufc up on the point about Geelong's recriting too REB. Jimmy and Joel were top 10 picks but StevieJ and Chappy were around pick 30 from memory.

Carlton had all those early picks but would that have been enough without Judd? StK look to have missed their window now and they have a good quota of early picks too.

Not that you are saying this, but in response to whufc's comments about Adelaide's list. Just because there aren't top 10 picks doesn't mean they can't be successful. I reckon Rendell is a good recruiter and I rate Allan Stewart in the background so I am prepared to back the young Crows in from here. That doesn't mean they will be as good as Geelong obviously.

The other relevant comparison is Collingwood. Pendlebury was pick 5 but Heath Shaw 48 and Swan was 58 . I think the Pies are the benchmark now of how to build a strong side without lots of early draft picks.

Link to how Geelongs list was built

[Jim05]

The ability to win a premiership should never be measured against how many top 10 draft picks you have. There are too many variables to use that as a sole measuring stick.

Yes, having top 10 draft picks is a great advantage but by no means does it ensure you're going to win premierships.

St Kilda, Carlton are prime examples of this to date.

Prior to last year, hadn't there been only 1 No 1 draft pick to win a premiership since drafting began?

Drew Banfield won 2 with West Coast

[Hondo]

Link to how Geelongs list was built

Thanks for that

I have looked into this before which was why I posted as I did. I think that story is a masterclass in recruiting to build a premiership team and it doesn't start with 2 years finishing last on the ladder.

[Mopar Dog]

The ability to win a premiership should never be measured against how many top 10 draft picks you have. There are too many variables to use that as a sole measuring stick.

Yes, having top 10 draft picks is a great advantage but by no means does it ensure you're going to win premierships.

St Kilda, Carlton are prime examples of this to date.

Prior to last year, hadn't there been only 1 No 1 draft pick to win a premiership since drafting began?

Drew Banfield won 2 with West Coast

Des Headland & Luke Hodge are two that come to mind.

[Mopar Dog]

I was going to pick whufc up on the point about Geelong's recriting too REB. Jimmy and Joel were top 10 picks but StevieJ and Chappy were around pick 30 from memory.

Carlton had all those early picks but would that have been enough without Judd? StK look to have missed their window now and they have a good quota of early picks too.

Not that you are saying this, but in response to whufc's comments about Adelaide's list. Just because there aren't top 10 picks doesn't mean they can't be successful. I reckon Rendell is a good recruiter and I rate Allan Stewart in the background so I am prepared to back the young Crows in from here. That doesn't mean they will be as good as Geelong obviously.

The other relevant comparison is Collingwood. Pendlebury was pick 5 but Heath Shaw 48 and Swan was 58 . I think the Pies are the benchmark now of how to build a strong side without lots of early draft picks.

Crows could have had top 5 draft picks in the last 5 years.

Wouldnt of stopped the fact they managed their list terribly. Allowing 6 30+ players to stay past their use by date and retire at the same time.

When a compromised draft was open us.

DUMB IMHO.