Dumb Port/Choko Dumb!

[Blue Boy]

Port rushed through 8 points.
Port lost by 8 points.
Its not rocket science.

From someone who doesn't barrack for the Crows or Port it'd be a damn shame if Port make the finals and the Crows dont as Port play complete crap football to watch.
There was only one team playing football tonight and on behalf of all football fans I was barracking for them, well done Crows.

Wedge man

I think Gilly has turned you

[Psyber]

All week Chocko says he is going to attack and take it up to the Crows .... even mumbled that all the coaches have worked the Crows out (except him clearly) ... and then with 5 minutes to go in the third quarter he sends the runners out, when they have a 2 goal lead, to tell the players to slow it down and waste the last 5 minutes. Burgoyne and Cornes waving their arms around.... And it wasn't just then either ....

A tactic Chocko has admitted his team isn't experienced enough to pull off, yet when he is under the pump he panics and pulls it out again. It's not the team's natural game and they aren't good at it but hey, lets do it at the crucial stage of a crucial game

What does he think is going to happen in the finals? Teams just going to lay down and let his team be attacking all game?

Yes, I was pessimistic about the Crows chances going into this game with Bock out too, and the struggling to score effectively didn't help, but when I saw Chocko's boys trying to play defensive possession football it gave me hope. They have never been good at it - that's why they only got one premiership out of several years at the top of the table when they were at their peak. I still think they got the one Premiership because somebody made Chocko let the players keep attacking that year.

Sure the loss of Brogan made a difference, but Lade should never have been left to ruck the whole game and exhaust himself. I was amazed that Thurstan's was taken off and Lade put back on after so brief a break.

[mal]

Grand Finals are always played in daylight
Grand Finals are usually dry days
PP won a flag in dry conditions in a day game this millenuim

To call a Premiership coach Dumb is unfair

[Psyber]

Grand Finals are always played in daylight
Grand Finals are usually dry days
PP won a flag in dry conditions in a day game this millenuim

To call a Premiership coach Dumb is unfair

"I still think they got the one Premiership because somebody made Chocko let the players keep attacking that year."

[Dutchy]

If Port had a decent coach they would have more than 1 premiership, with the talent and structure that was given to Williams on a platter he should have done better IMO

[Hondo]

If Port had a decent coach they would have more than 1 premiership, with the talent and structure that was given to Williams on a platter he should have done better IMO

Port didn't do enough from 2001-2003 despite the minor premierships and those crucial home final losses (Hawthorn 01, Collingwood 02 and Sydney 03) will always haunt Chocko IMO. Just as the last 2 years finals let-downs will haunt Craigy - ditto Jars at North Adelaide.

Still, if he can rebuild this team and get them back there then full credit to him

For mine, I think Chocko is a good coach and no-one can take the 2004 Premiership away from him.

[Booney]

If Port had a decent coach they would have more than 1 premiership, with the talent and structure that was given to Williams on a platter he should have done better IMO

I believe a coaches best work is done during the 22 rounds to get a team into finals style,match winning football.In finals,players need to lift to the occasion,in 02-03 I think the playing group will look back and feel they let Williams down.Not the other way around.

[GWW]

If Port had a decent coach they would have more than 1 premiership, with the talent and structure that was given to Williams on a platter he should have done better IMO

Thats a bit unfair as Choco has been responsible for developing a hell of a lot of players who at other clubs would have been (and were) just average types of players (Kingsley, Schofield, Paxman, Mahoney, R James, etc etc). It wasn't Choco who received this on a platter, he was the guy who turned the club into a competitive force within 10 years of their introduction into the league. They failed in a finals campaigns obviously, no disputing that, and he would take some blame for that, but the same thing has happened to other clubs with great lists as well (eg Saint Kilda, Kangaroos in 98 GF). What Choco has done after the cleanout of the last couple of years, in terms of whats been achieved this year has been very commendable.

I think people are reading way too much out of last night's result (although yes i accept its following a pattern of the last 5 or 6 Showdowns), and not putting it into context of the whole season (which all Port supporters knew would have its ups and downs). Compared to clubs like the Bulldogs, Essendon, Carlton, Richmond etc, Port has had very few decent draft picks in its history and all the achievements it (and Williams) has made have been on its own merits.

Look at what Freo has done in 2 more years (than Port), and i think this certainly puts things into context.

[Psyber]

If Port had a decent coach they would have more than 1 premiership, with the talent and structure that was given to Williams on a platter he should have done better IMO

I believe a coaches best work is done during the 22 rounds to get a team into finals style,match winning football.In finals,players need to lift to the occasion,in 02-03 I think the playing group will look back and feel they let Williams down.Not the other way around.

Not from what I saw watching the finals and the season games on TV. I always thought they played better when they ignored the coach and attacked. Watching the runner come out and then seeing them go on the defensive and get run over was painful. I am not biased against Port Power - I barrack for them against everybody but the Crows out of state loyalty. [I would never barrack for the Port Adelaide Magpies.]

Port Adelaide in that period reminded me of the Crows under Gary Ayres, when they underachieved too, by adopting the same tactics.

[Port Adelaide Proud]

If Port had a decent coach they would have more than 1 premiership, with the talent and structure that was given to Williams on a platter he should have done better IMO

Choco can/could only do so much. He can only tell his players what to do. They need to go out and do it. It's not Choco's fault if the players can't do as instructed.

[Psyber]

If Port had a decent coach they would have more than 1 premiership, with the talent and structure that was given to Williams on a platter he should have done better IMO

Choco can/could only do so much. He can only tell his players what to do. They need to go out and do it. It's not Choco's fault if the players can't do as instructed.

But what if he gives stupid instructions - like keeping Lade in the ruck until he couldn't keep going instead of having Thurstans give him a spell more often during the day?

Or as he did during Port's two seasons before the premiership, sending out the runner, going ultra-defensive, and being run over as soon as they had a slender lead?

[Port Adelaide Proud]

Who knows what Choco told the players to do, only he and the players know. If Choco did tell them to play that way, then yes, he made a dumb decision. But I think that he told them to play attacking footy, yet the Crows just didnt allow it, and well done to them for that.

The Crows sucked the Power right into their game plan.

[carey18]

If we all no this then y couldnt the coaching staff have a game plan to beat this?

[sydney-dog]

Port Adelaide Proud

If Chocco instructed his team to play atractive footy then yes " Dumb Port / Dumb Chocco"

The conditions did not enable attractive footy, what you should demand is committed footy, players who are prepared to put their bodies on the line to win the higher amount of contested footy and a willingness to force the ball forward at all cost.

Definitely not a night for attractive footy, however a night to grind out a win

[Rik E Boy]

I'd have Choco ahead of Craig at my club any day. Choco has been there and done that but Craigy hasn't gotten his side over the line in September once. I could wear the losses to Craig coached combinations if I could console myself with a premiership DVD!

regards,

REB

[Psyber]

I'd have Choco ahead of Craig at my club any day. Choco has been there and done that but Craigy hasn't gotten his side over the line in September once. I could wear the losses to Craig coached combinations if I could console myself with a premiership DVD!

regards,

REB

As I've said before, I think Port got the Premiership despite Choko because somebody supressed him. It should have been their third! There was a pattern then: Port got in front, the runner came out, Port went defensive, Port went down. So there we know what the instructions were then.

I agree - this weekend we don't know what they were, but I assume nobody refused to relieve Lade for a while against the coaches instructions to do so. That would seem obvious!

[jackpot jim]

Mark Williams Has the HIGHEST win/loss ratio of ALL the current coaches for the Last 6 years.
Not bad for someones who's DUMB.

Whats that Make DUDS' Like SHEEDY, PAGAN, WALLACE, MALTHOUSE and the rest of those pathetically Over Rated Victorian Coaches?????

OR is it Just the Players that make Coach???????????

Above Coaches Teams are all Shite, Collingwood included BUT Coaches Like Laidley, Clarkson, Thompson, Roos, Worsfold, Williams are all 1st club coaches that have not been given the SUPERCOACH tag BUT are the ones having Recent success.

So again, which is it ? Players Make the Coach OR vice versa?

[Dutchy]

Mark Williams Has the HIGHEST win/loss ratio of ALL the current coaches for the Last 6 years.
Not bad for someones who's DUMB.

exactly my point JJ, wheres the results from this high %????

[Hondo]

OR is it Just the Players that make Coach???????????

That would be an interesting topic all of it's own

Could anyone have coached the Lions to premierships 2001-2003 given the quality of their squad?

What about Blighty's turnaround at the Crows?

I think it's some combination of coach and players + a luck with injuries + hitting form in September + the draw + tons of self-belief/confidence that gets a premiership - very difficult to isolate one factor as all have to work together IMO

[silent hour]

[quote="jackpot jim"]Mark Williams Has the HIGHEST win/loss ratio of ALL the current coaches for the Last 6 years.
Not bad for someones who's DUMB.

Whats that Make DUDS' Like SHEEDY, PAGAN, WALLACE, MALTHOUSE and the rest of those pathetically Over Rated Victorian Coaches?????[quote="jackpot jim"]

The only win/loss ratio I worry about is in Finals and Grand Finals.