Pav a Crow in 2008?

[Hondo]

Again we degenerate into Crows sniping ...

4 questions:

1 Why have we decided the Crows have a 'no trade' policy - where did Massie, Thompson, Stevens, Bassett, Torney, Welsh come from? Several trades in recent years have fallen through for the Crows through faults in the system, eg Damon White

2 Why have we decided that trading is the way to success? Clubs heaviest in trades in recent years are Freo, St Kilda, Richmond and Kangaroos .. draw your own conclusions as to how those trades have worked out .. Kingsley, Hay are a couple that come to mind.

3 What fault can be layed at the Crows for recruitng Knights, VB, Porplyzia, Vince, Griffin, Douglas, Maric, Hudson in recent years?

4 Why cant we discuss the potential recruitment of Pav without resorting to digs about Crows drafting and recruting? I sense

[sydney-dog]

Hondo 71

Absolutely right, let's have a look at the past two seasons, not many trades completed, Adelaide are not alone in regards to not closing any deals.

The real issues are with the trade process

1. Clubs should be able to trade future draft picks, i.e the Crows should be able to offer it's first round pick for the next to drafts

2. It is up to a club to determine what a player is worth, it would be good if their was some criteria in place that places a market value on a player

3. Their is no mediation process, their should be independent people available to help broker a deal.

I know for a fact the rows try to trade for Jay Nash and Faulkner, but the Bombers and WB both asked for a first round Pick, to me this is demand is totally unreasonable, so how is this the crows fault?.

The crows and the Dee's also had an agreement in principle regarding a trade, but the Dee's pulled out at the last minute, again how is this the crows fault.

This site continues to amuse me on how some people make judgments on simple observations, or long term assessments based on short term observations.

In regards to a possible trade for the Pav

1. The crows will not offer the captaincy

2. I don't think it will be as simple as a straight trade between two clubs, it never is for high profile players. The crows may need to trade for another first round pick to pass on to Freo, this would involve a three or four club deal, it may even get more complicated if players like Judd and Fev are also available

[Dutchy]

geez we get defensive again dont we....

your coach has put it on public record that he doesnt like to trade players...look at trades done since he ahas been at the helm...not many, therefore a fair observation I would think

SD...you have said before you get frustrated at not promoting the youngsters quickly enough, I think the lack of Rising Star noms confirms this...

[Hondo]

I answer the Rising Star question -

Brent Reilly 2005
Sarge was the next one back in 2000!!!

unless they pull their finger out and get some kids playing some gametime 2008+ might be lean years for the crows

It would be interesting to look back at the history of rising star noms and see how they turned out, in all seriousness

Have you got the list you can post Dutchy? Maybe in a new thread?

[am Bays]

Well with 8 kids in teh U/18 All Australian side it is fair to say a number of WA kids will go top 10 or even top 5. To secure them Freo or West Coast might be prepared to trade stars to get them to limit the go home factor...

[sydney-dog]

Dutchy

Agree in regards to the lack of rising star nominees, this is a direct result of the crows chosing to develop players in the sanfl rather than providing early opportunities

Johncock was the last player I can recall who was fast tracked without playing too many sanfl games

In specific to trades

Agree, Craigy has stated that he does not like de-listing players, but he has too, and as you have mentioned, he does not like the trade, this being said, he has not said that he will not trade.

Lets not trade just for the sake of trading, it needs to be the right deal for both clubs and all players involved

I am confident, if we further improve the process, than more trades will get completed from all clubs

[NFC]

If Maric, Griffen and Douglas are good youngsters why arent they playing regular AFL footy?

Because they are just that, youngsters.

And how many 20/21 year-old ruckman are permanent members of their team? Not many.

And Douglas is in his second year and the Crows are one of the most conservative teams in the league, it’s hardly surprising that he’s not a regular.

[Dog_ger]

Please forget this great man.

Lets look to the future.

Consentrate on our youth...!

[sydney-dog]

Dog_ger

crows can't win

if they don't have a crack at Pav they will be heavily criticised, if they do, they well also be criticised.....

Pav is only 26, he has a good 7 years left in him, the crows have never ever had a quality CHF, he is a South Aust, so why not have a crack at him

it's not like the Crows have a young key forward coming through

[Dutchy]

why would they be criticised for having a crack at Pav?

[JK]

Despite what some people think, the Crows have a good squad of young players coming through to go with a handful of older players most of whom have more than 1 season left.

Crows older crew is no different to Port's with Tredders, Wakelin, Cornes, Lade, Wilson, Brogan yet most people assume Port are this young side on the up and the Crows are being booked in to Resthaven

Out of this list,Tredrea 27,Cornes X2 26/22 are the most likely to be there in 3-5 years.

But Lade and Brogan have shown,as is most often the case,old cagey ruckmen can be extremely valuable to a team.(Lade more so than Brogan,no doubt).

Adelaide's older brigade of Roo,McLeod,Edwards,Goodwin and Bassett are the type who rely on running power as much as thier 'guile'.These players tend to not hold out as long,and the fact all are the other side of 30,it does appear to be a team relying on the older heads.Dont get me wrong,Porplyzia,Douglas,Van Berlo,Rutten(a miserly big,big man) all have futures ahead of them.
I just feel Port's younger group are 2 or so years ahead of thier Crow counter parts,many of those 23-24 year olds,even if not having played in the 04 premiership,have spent time around a successful club,it is only the older Crow heads who remember the really good times.This might be the difference between which one of us,if either,win a flag in the next 3-5 years.As I asked before,if Pavlich is chasing a flag,who is the better bet to win one in the next 3-5 years?I think Port,if either at all.

I'm with you on this one Danielson

[Rik E Boy]

LMAO. Whoever ends up with him will pay through the bloody nose, no doubt about it.

regards,

REB

So you wouldn't trade for him?

No I wouldn't. Worst ever! Our mob can actually score more than 11 goals a game.

regards,

REB

[Rik E Boy]

geez we get defensive again dont we....

your coach has put it on public record that he doesnt like to trade players...look at trades done since he ahas been at the helm...not many, therefore a fair observation I would think

SD...you have said before you get frustrated at not promoting the youngsters quickly enough, I think the lack of Rising Star noms confirms this...

Well, it is the Crows we are talking about LOL. Seriously though, any trade to shift Pav would be huge. The last time a club did that was when Adelaide (yes Adelaide) managed to secure Wayne Carey, or perhaps the Otto deal for Geelong. Securing Pavlich would cost a lot more than both the trades I mentioned hence my initial comment.

regards,

REB

[Hondo]

Port and Crows older brigades:

Goodwin 30
Roo 32
Bassett 30
McLeod 31
Edwards 31
Welsh 28

P Burgoyne 29
Brogan 28
Lade 31
C Cornes 27
Tredrea 28
Wakelin 33
Wilson 31

In 5 years time it's arguable that C Cornes will be the only one left of either group. In 3 years Port will have lost Lade, Wakelin and Wilson and all the others will be 30-31

After these groups there are comparable groups of younger players in both squads IMO. Just because a team is playing lots of younger players (because they have to), doesn't mean those younger players are any better or that team has any better prospects. It just means they are being played because they have to.

Booney, TBH who knows? You'd have to line up the junior players against each other and make a call on them but it's just speculation, we'll find out in 2012!

[Dutchy]

along with the Saints and Sydney the 2 SA side would have the most players over 28 I would have thought...going to be very interesting how this all plays out over the next 3 years

[Rik E Boy]

along with the Saints and Sydney the 2 SA side would have the most players over 28 I would have thought...going to be very interesting how this all plays out over the next 3 years

It means more Cat victories at Girlee Stadium YAY!

regards,

REB

[Blue Boy]

Dog_ger

crows can't win

if they don't have a crack at Pav they will be heavily criticised, if they do, they well also be criticised.....

Pav is only 26, he has a good 7 years left in him, the crows have never ever had a quality CHF, he is a South Aust, so why not have a crack at him

it's not like the Crows have a young key forward coming through

I dont rekon any one will have a crack at the crows if they try to move heaven and earth to get the Pav in the hoops !!!

[shooter]

The pav is a confirmed Crows supporter.
I don't think there is any doubt that his preferred destination would be Adelaide if he were to leave Freo.
That gives the Crows an edge over the Power in that regard.

However, the crows will have 2 problems if they choose to trade for him.
1. Freo will ask for an arm and a leg. What/who will the Crows be prepared to give up to get him?
2. Salary Cap!

Number 2 will be harder to fix than number 1 i think.

Crows had the opportunity to negotiate with Freo for Pav the same year they got Carey.
The reason they pursued Carey and not Pav was that Carey was at least $200k cheaper.
(Pav was getting $550k from Freo while Carey was getting paid less than $350K).

The Crows are always close to the salary cap so making room in the cap to fit in the Pav will be difficult.
I suspect that the types of players that Freo would like to get in any deal would not be the highly paid ones, so sorting out problem 1 above will not fix problem 2.

Port will also suffer from the same problems, imo.

By far the most likely scenario is that Pav will stay in the west.

[Dutchy]

your dreaming if you seriously think Carey was getting less than $350k at the Roos, FFS he was the best player we have seen for 30 years!!!

[smac]

Or you could calm down a little and read his post Dutchy. Sounds to me like he was saying the Crows would be paying Carey $350k, nothing to do with his salary at the Roos.