Marty Mattner

[Hondo]

This:

Everyone who wears the candy stripes under the Prof is expected to be a defender and defensive minded

Turns into this:

the crows players are well drilled on defensive side of the game

You quote the original comment but ask for a straw poll on a watered-down new version to rally support

In fairness tho - my comment did read like I said you edited your post - I am not accusing you of that in fact full marks for re-quoting it TBH

[Dutchy]

I dont see much difference between the quotes...but anyway play on

[Hondo]

I never said that the Kangas game plan of the last 2 years was any good...big difference

When Craig constantly talks about defensive structure and plays with a 2 man forwardline I dont think my comment is incorrect

11 ppg over the whole season is a huge difference SD, so far thats 25 goals more in the season....add to that that the Roos havent beatne a team by more than 26 points (no blowouts)....while we are talking stats the Roos average 4 more socring shots per game this season

If the Crows kick over 100 points tonight I retract my statement

Dutchy?

[sydney-dog]

Kicked 100 pts in tough conditions

the crows percentage in now 115%, which is the third highest in the league, their is no point kicking 100 pts each game, if you leak 120 pts top the opposition

hopefully we can string a few in a row now

[Hondo]

We have just tripled the score of one of the so-called 'attacking teams', on a wet night

Not bad for a defensive team

[Dutchy]

We have just tripled the score of one of the so-called 'attacking teams', on a wet night

Not bad for a defensive team

who said Hawks were an attacking team??? very defensive team....

[Stumps]

with all due respect dutchy, do you really think the hawks are a defensive team?? they were useless tonight but usually i think they play an attractive sty;e of footy

[Dutchy]

with all due respect dutchy, do you really think the hawks are a defensive team?? they were useless tonight but usually i think they play an attractive sty;e of footy

take out their 3 TD games which are played in perfect conditions and they average 88 points per game, under the AFL average...have only scored over 100 3 times this season...they have a defensive mindset, but also have the advantage of Buddy, take him out and Im sure they would average less

[sydney-dog]

Didn't the Hawks recently kick 30+ goals against the Blues

At times I am not sure why we KEEP driving this "attacking" issue, I just feel that some people for some reason do not put the same level of value on defensive skills and pressure, in the end, the sides that do this well usually wins flags

Brisbane, Sydney, Eagles are examples of this..... and also the doggies in the SANFL..

Shoot out football will not win GF, this is why sides like the WB will probably make the finals however once again will be exposed.

Carltin, yes play attacking footy, have kicked more goals than the crows, however they do not apply enough pressure the other way and they get exposed.

If a side always works hard together defensively and works hard to apply pressure when not in possession of the footy, then they will always be in the contest

Last night, the Crows found the right balance, defensively, they were as good as they have been all year, but they attacked with quicker ball movement and took more risks, some of this was a result of a better structure.

Personally, I hope my club never plays that one way shoot out crap that we see the Carlton's and WB play.

I never want to see my side play a style of footy that we win purely because we have kicked 27 goals to 25, however what I saw last night was the right mix, my expectations , top four sides should not need to rely on kicking 20 goals each week to win a game of footy, if you need to rely on this, you will leave yourself expose, especially in the big games.

[Hondo]

Honestly, I lose track of the labels this year. Some teams are swapping from week to week apparently. People have an obsession with goal-scoring this year and yet when there are games like St Kilda-Collingwood, which by all reports was one one of the games of the season, when only 23 goals are scored no-one says anything. Crows do it and out comes the 'defensive' label and how Neil Craig is ruining the game.

So, who is 'attacking'? Clearly not the Hawks anymore. Collingwood aren't kicking enough goals to qualify surely. Kangaroos can't lay claim to it with their goal scoring. Geelong are about it? Crows held them to 9 goals, again no-one said anything.

What I am saying is - stop the labelling and stop the obsession with kicking 20 goals IMO. Clubs don't get any points for kicking a high score and SD is right, history shows in the AFL and most sports - the team with the best defensive system wins the GF most times.

Centrals in the 2000's and Port before then are great examples of this in the SANFL. They do kick high scores from time to time but it's not an obsessive goal of the coaching staff - they quite rightly focus on winning which, at the end of the day, is what us supporters want.

..... gets off the soap-box ....

[Down&Out]

Getting back to topic- Does last nights effort make it tough to recall Mattner??

[Blue Boy]

Getting back to topic- Does last nights effort make it tough to recall Mattner??

I would think he will find it hard to get back in and I dont think he played at all yesterday which would make it even harder for him.

Only injury or maybe for Doughty @ some stage on the wing !!!

[sydney-dog]

On Mattner

Definitely, he needs to fight for his spot, their are some injury concerns over Proplyzia, but you would think Doglous would be the better one for one swap as he can play the same type of role

Massie ands Torney are the obvious who play the same type of HB role as Marty, Massie has been very good since his inclusion, in regards to Torney, I have been critical, but last night I thought Jason was also very good

If Marty is to come back on the wing, well your looking at Knights, Radar, Van Berlo or Doughty to make way for Marty, Doughty would be the obvious, but again, I believe his form has improved in the past month

If the Crows are able to stay fit and maintain their form, it may be a few weeks before Marty gets another opportunity

[Down&Out]

sounds like a long haul back- he would be very disappointed- thought he had made real progress in some areas of his game.

[Blue Boy]

sounds like a long haul back- he would be very disappointed- thought he had made real progress in some areas of his game.

The coach was tryin to make him a back man and it hasnt worked !!!

[sydney-dog]

Blue Boy

As a footballer Marty needs to develop his Game, he has all the attributes to be a very good player in the back 6, he can play on a tall or a small, he has good pace and he is strong over head

I do not believe that Mart's omission is purely based on form, he needs to improve in some area's of his game, even more importantly if he wants to play on the wing, these area's are

1. Decision making, at times Mart really does chose the wrong option
2. Skills, his execution lets him down, not to mention he has no right leg
3. Carrying the footy, Marty continues to look at the ground and fails to lift his eyes when he runs with the football and time after time runs himself in to trouble

Look at the top Wingman in this comp, players like Dal Santo, he has great skills either side of the body, he always finds time and space because he has awareness of what's around him, because he is not looking at the ground, and he choices the right option

Lets not get distracted by the position he is playing but lets focus on the deficiencies in his game that need improving no matter what position he pla

[Hondo]

He needs to work on parts of his game and it's nothing to do with trying to make him a defender IMO. Even if he was on the wing he'd still get the ball, put his head down, look at the ground, charge and find himself making the same mistakes. He also must dispose of the ball much better than he does - no point dodging 5 players if you are then going to kick it straight to the other side.

I think he'll come back at some stage - with some 'polishing' he could turn into a very damaging player. For all his pace and ability to get around players he rarely hurts the opposition as often as he should.

The good players come back from this even better than before and Marty looks to me like the sort of guy who would do anything required to get back.

[Blue Boy]

Blue Boy

As a footballer Marty needs to develop his Game, he has all the attributes to be a very good player in the back 6, he can play on a tall or a small, he has good pace and he is strong over head

I do not believe that Mart's omission is purely based on form, he needs to improve in some area's of his game, even more importantly if he wants to play on the wing, these area's are

1. Decision making, at times Mart really does chose the wrong option
2. Skills, his execution lets him down, not to mention he has no right leg
3. Carrying the footy, Marty continues to look at the ground and fails to lift his eyes when he runs with the football and time after time runs himself in to trouble

Look at the top Wingman in this comp, players like Dal Santo, he has great skills either side of the body, he always finds time and space because he has awareness of what's around him, because he is not looking at the ground, and he choices the right option

Lets not get distracted by the position he is playing but lets focus on the deficiencies in his game that need improving no matter what position he pla

Other left footers in our side that have no right foot are as follows S.Goodwin / C.Knights / N.Bassett & I.Perrie. What sort of trype are you goin on about in this area ????? Also name me 10 left footers that had exceptional skills on both side of the body and then name 10 right footers - I think you will find the right foot option a little easier.

Plenty of our players burn the ball in our side 3 last night did it a few times with one in particluar a multiple offender.

N.Dal santo a top wingman pffffft- he is lucky he gets to play there.

I go to training very often and see Marty set up in Ben Harts old role - I watched a player last night play in a defensive role last night in K.Massie that should of been there all along - but once agin Mummbles plays him out of position as well.

[Hondo]

Plenty of our players burn the ball in our side 3 last night did it a few times with one in particluar a multiple offender.

So does Marty burn it or not?

If so, are you saying it's OK that he does because others do it too?

[Blue Boy]

Plenty of our players burn the ball in our side 3 last night did it a few times with one in particluar a multiple offender.

So does Marty burn it or not?

If so, are you saying it's OK that he does because others do it too?

Hondo

Of course he does and so do some of his mates.

I feel that he is very unlucky to be made the scape goat for the side when others do the same thing !!!