1989 VFL GF > 2006 AFL GF

[am Bays]

Spelly you are ahead of your time as usual...

from todays Age an article statistically comparing last year and the 1989 GF. The article emphasises the fact that at no stage in th last five minutes that Hawthorn tried to run down the clock or play tempo/(tampon) football. They still kept attacking (which did help Geelong get back into it though)

Great grand Final, Great Game of footy...

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/evolution-of-the-code/2007/06/27/1182623991499.html

[Benchwarmer]

Great article, some scary stats and proof that footy will always be better then than now ... unless we adopt some 80s philosophies again.

Then again, with the money in the game there is now, we can but dream!

[Rik E Boy]

Some points to remember.

1. 80's football was actually quite dour. It was only a few teams that were piling on the goals. Towards the end of the decade it opened up a bit. It was the 90's when the game really opened up and statisticians were forced to open the record books again. People are comparing this decade with the last. Footy was always going to tighten up after the scorefests of the nineties.

2. Hawthorn couldn't have played temp footy in that last quarter as they were physically smashed and tempo footy is very demanding on the players. All players were playing on courage and gut instinct alone at the end of that game.

3. Only the best games were televised 'then'. There were some bloody shockers played over the years at Waverly, Western Oval and Moorabin. You got to watch the best of the best when you tuned into 'The Winners'. Saturation coverage began to happen in 1987 at a time when things opened up a little (think Sydney Swans piling on the goals at the SCG with Capper flying over everyone's heads). Now we see more football...some of it good and some of it bloody awful.

4. If an attacking team can win this year's premiership the game styles of many teams will begin to shift. Teams are aping Adelaide and Sydney and to a lesser extent West Coast. If the Cats or Pies can get up teams will begin to emulate their style. The Hawks have been in some ugly games but that has only happened when their opponents have deprived them of the uncontested footy that they thrive on (Carlton didn't do this and were smashed). This season is an open year because combat footy is starting to become less effective...this year is a much a battle between styles as between clubs.

So go Geelong......for the good of the game of course.

regards,

REB

[Dogwatcher]

Judging by your post REB (good one too), you'd be happy if the Pies could get up?

For the good of the game of course

[Rik E Boy]

Judging by your post REB (good one too), you'd be happy if the Pies could get up?

For the good of the game of course

Bollocks to that. FWIW, I reckon they might run out of Legs. I reckon Malthouse is an absolute gun coach though. He has proven that at three clubs.

regards,

REB

[JK]

I reckon Malthouse is an absolute gun coach though. He has proven that at three clubs.

regards,

REB

Agreed

[Benchwarmer]

Some points to remember.

1. 80's football was actually quite dour. It was only a few teams that were piling on the goals. Towards the end of the decade it opened up a bit. It was the 90's when the game really opened up and statisticians were forced to open the record books again. People are comparing this decade with the last. Footy was always going to tighten up after the scorefests of the nineties.

2. Hawthorn couldn't have played temp footy in that last quarter as they were physically smashed and tempo footy is very demanding on the players. All players were playing on courage and gut instinct alone at the end of that game.

3. Only the best games were televised 'then'. There were some bloody shockers played over the years at Waverly, Western Oval and Moorabin. You got to watch the best of the best when you tuned into 'The Winners'. Saturation coverage began to happen in 1987 at a time when things opened up a little (think Sydney Swans piling on the goals at the SCG with Capper flying over everyone's heads). Now we see more football...some of it good and some of it bloody awful.

4. If an attacking team can win this year's premiership the game styles of many teams will begin to shift. Teams are aping Adelaide and Sydney and to a lesser extent West Coast. If the Cats or Pies can get up teams will begin to emulate their style. The Hawks have been in some ugly games but that has only happened when their opponents have deprived them of the uncontested footy that they thrive on (Carlton didn't do this and were smashed). This season is an open year because combat footy is starting to become less effective...this year is a much a battle between styles as between clubs.

So go Geelong......for the good of the game of course.

regards,

REB

1. The VFL in the late 70s and early 80s was actually quite attacking with at least one team per match breaking the century and on a number of occasions as a child, I saw both sides reach three figures. A score under 85-90 would usually occur only because of heavy grounds or rain. By the mid 80s, scoring had begun to drop off and as you said, and there were a few teams that were piling on the goals.

Because of the money in the game, professionalism came and footy tightened up as players and coaches had no "day job" to fall back on anymore and the sack meant looking for work and not going back to what you did during the week.

2. Hawthorn couldn't have played tempo footy in that last quarter because it simply didn't exist. Nobody even considered it.

3. VFL Park, the Western Oval and Moorabbin were most conducive to bad footy because of the conditions - VFL Park only when it became muddy or heavy. You didn't always get the "best of the best" on The Winners or Seven's Big League but more often than not you did because Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon, Geelong, Hawthorn and North Melbourne were on most weeks.

The gap between best game and worst game is pretty much the same, in both cases because of one team dragging the other down to their level.

4. I agree that an overtly-attacking team like Geelong must win the flag and recreate an era of attacking football. I cannot fathom a second Collingwood flag in my lifetime (spare me please!) but their football is positive, unlike some of our repeat offenders who smother the contest with unattractive play (Sydney, I'm calling you out here!).

Carlton is one side leading the way - second highest points for, but once their league-worst defence improves, they and clubs of that style will assist in breaking the shackles of negative footy and give us what we want - quality, attacking football.

[JK]

Carlton is one side leading the way - second highest points for, but once their league-worst defence improves, they and clubs of that style will assist in breaking the shackles of negative footy and give us what we want - quality, attacking football.

Will be interesting to see if Carlton remain as attack minded when they do finally have a half reasonable defence in place ... Maybe they play this way at the moment because they figure they are likely to concede a hefty score most weeks regardless?

[Benchwarmer]

The consensus amongst Carlton fans when I was on holiday back in Melbourne was ... hey, we like the way that we are attcaking and if we kick 20 goals each week, then we are bound to win a few games.

They would hope to see the defence improve (maybe trade for one decent FB/CHB and also find a talented FB/CHB in the draft) and use them as the focal point for strengthening and developing a strong back six. Then continue the attack-minded orientation and rise up the ladder in the way Hawthorn has.

Carlton are probably 2-3 years behind Hawthorn at the moment but the key is to strengthen the backline and we should see the Blues where Hawthorn are now in 2009-2010. We can wait for that if it comes true and we get it for a few years.

[JK]

The consensus amongst Carlton fans when I was on holiday back in Melbourne was ... hey, we like the way that we are attcaking and if we kick 20 goals each week, then we are bound to win a few games.

They would hope to see the defence improve (maybe trade for one decent FB/CHB and also find a talented FB/CHB in the draft) and use them as the focal point for strengthening and developing a strong back six. Then continue the attack-minded orientation and rise up the ladder in the way Hawthorn has.

Carlton are probably 2-3 years behind Hawthorn at the moment but the key is to strengthen the backline and we should see the Blues where Hawthorn are now in 2009-2010. We can wait for that if it comes true and we get it for a few years.

Thats what Richmond fans have been saying for the last 20 years

I'm not knocking the Blues either BTW, I've actually found their games amongst the most enjoyable to watch this season, purely because they have a dip and try to get the score on the board at every opportunity despite being severely undermanned ... I hope an attack minded team can win a flag soon (as mentioned above)

[spell_check]

Carlton have already won more games this year than last year, so they are on the right track. Perhaps it's the teams like Carlton, Geelong and the Bulldogs that will show the way (fingers crossed!)

[Hondo]

2. Hawthorn couldn't have played tempo footy in that last quarter because it simply didn't exist. Nobody even considered it.

That's a myth ... teams have been slowing down the play forEVER. The out of bounds on the full rule was brought in because teams were kicking out of bounds deliberately to waste time. Ditto for deliberate out of bounds and ruckmen punching the ball over the line.

The most common way of slowing down a game was simply to start a fight.

With all the rule changes and the scrutiny of fights these days, the only way to slow down the play today is 'tempo' style. And that's OK by me so long as it's not over-used. I'd rather my team kick the ball around for 3 minutes if it means they saved an opponents run-on and 3 goals. In today's footy, a game can be lost on the basis of a slack 10 minutes and 5 unanswered goals by the other side.

Don't put the rose-coloured glasses on too quickly and dream of the 80s. REB's right, I remember VFL games in the 80s often being fairly dull. The SANFL was much better to watch in those days.

[Hondo]

Carlton have already won more games this year than last year, so they are on the right track. Perhaps it's the teams like Carlton, Geelong and the Bulldogs that will show the way (fingers crossed!)

Bulldogs are the masters of tempo/possession footy. Rocket Eade was one of the first to bring in the flood with Sydney in 1996. They were the team that did the 10 or so kicks between the same 2 players a few weeks ago.

Most times through history in AFL and other sports the team with the better defensive action wins the Grand Final. Attacking teams are great to watch and fly high to 4th, 3rd or maybe even 2nd but there is always a West Coast (early 90s and today), Sydney (current) or Hawthorn (80s) waiting to eat the teams that aren't accountable when they haven't got the footy.

Sorry to be a wet blanket guys

[spell_check]

Carlton have already won more games this year than last year, so they are on the right track. Perhaps it's the teams like Carlton, Geelong and the Bulldogs that will show the way (fingers crossed!)

Bulldogs are the masters of tempo/possession footy. Rocket Eade was one of the first to bring in the flood with Sydney in 1996.

Most times through history in AFL and other sports the team with the better defensive action wins the Grand Final. Attacking teams are great to watch and fly high to 4th, 3rd or maybe even 2nd but there is always a West Coast (early 90s and today), Sydney (current) or Hawthorn (80s) waiting to eat the teams that aren't accountable when they haven't got the footy.

Sorry to be a wet blanket guys

I'm sure most people would love to see someone win the flag without too much emphasis on defence, but yes they are rare. West in 1983 would be one of the only times this has happened.

[spell_check]

This is the average number of scoring shot per match by both teams combined for the past 30 VFL/AFL seasons:

1978 58.54
1979 60.38
1980 59.14
1981 57.41
1982 62.32
1983 58.35
1984 57.62
1985 58.05
1986 55.99
1987 57.10
1988 54.99
1989 53.89
1990 55.69
1991 56.84
1992 57.06
1993 57.20
1994 52.43
1995 51.90
1996 51.26
1997 50.20
1998 51.37
1999 50.70
2000 55.05
2001 52.50
2002 50.26
2003 50.62
2004 50.11
2005 50.85
2006 51.06
2007 52.27 (to Round

[spell_check]

Spelly you are ahead of your time as usual...

from todays Age an article statistically comparing last year and the 1989 GF. The article emphasises the fact that at no stage in th last five minutes that Hawthorn tried to run down the clock or play tempo/(tampon) football. They still kept attacking (which did help Geelong get back into it though)

Great grand Final, Great Game of footy...

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/evolution-of-the-code/2007/06/27/1182623991499.html

Just a coincedence though, Tassie, but I'll take credit for your compliment, thanks.

A couple of things I thought interesting from the article:

About less turnovers nowadays - that's one problem with the game. People might marvel at the so called skills, but the games are of keeping possession, and it looks bloody robotic! Also looks as sterile as the rules are.

And that Steven Hocking played out the game with a split testicle?!!

[Benchwarmer]

Hondo

I agree. Any match in the 80s involving Fitzroy, St Kilda or Melbourne had about an 85% chance of being dull because of those teams' skills.

And granted, starting a fight was the best way of slowing down the play ... but we never saw the ball go from the wing to half-back to full-back then out the other side of the ground in a "V" shape like we do now - the worst we got then was a sideways kick as a switch.

Luckily, that is the worst tactic we see at grassroots level nowadays.

I'm not anti-2007 footy, I'd just rather see more positive football from teams and coaches but the odds are that we will never get it more than 75% of the time because of the money in the game nowadays.

[Strawb]

I would rate the 89 grand final as one of the greatest grand finals i have ever seen. It had everything even a streaker. It was wild and wolly and the players played like it was the last grand final ever. A few years later one of the best games at the G was Geelong Vs. Essendon with the shootout Ablett kicked 14.7 i think and the fish got 10 goals. Both game were attacking footy at its best. That what the AFL needs high scoring attacking footy then people will be interested in it more.

[FlyingHigh]

Agree with most of your points Hondo, but one slight difference is that when the leading team forced the ball out of bounds, at least it came back into play as a 50-50 contest. To me the lack of 50-50 contests all over the ground is why football is not as good as it was - in these contests you were kept interested because you never knew what was going to happen. Admittedly, this is probably a result of lesser skills in the past than today, esp as the skill level is very even between all the players.

'89 was the best, '06 was good, '05 was absolute crap, other than the scores being close.

[Hondo]

Agree with most of your points Hondo, but one slight difference is that when the leading team forced the ball out of bounds, at least it came back into play as a 50-50 contest. To me the lack of 50-50 contests all over the ground is why football is not as good as it was - in these contests you were kept interested because you never knew what was going to happen. Admittedly, this is probably a result of lesser skills in the past than today, esp as the skill level is very even between all the players.

'89 was the best, '06 was good, '05 was absolute crap, other than the scores being close.

'05 was hardly crap IMO. Both 05 and 06 were tense, exciting games I thought. But it's personal opinion what you prefer.

As Cornesy always says ... go back and grab a video of a standard mid-season game from 25 years ago. Not a GF but a minor round game. Have a close look and then compare to today. The go back another 10 years and do the same. It would be a bit of an eye-opener for you I reckon.

Very few games can compare with the '89 GF but if you look at the 3 Grand Finals either side of '89 they weren't massively exciting, memorable high-scoring games. It's very easy to say '89 was symbolic of a golden era but I think it's better to judge it on it's own as a superb game for the ages and leave it at that. Don't use it to bag out the game as it is in 2007.