crows choke

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Re: crows choke

Postby mal » Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:38 pm

Craig has about the 13th worst list and finishes in the 8
Not a choke
Just the form working out
He gets the best outa his ordinary team list during the monor round
Other teams can lift a notch Adelaide usually cant in finals
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Re: crows choke

Postby NO-MERCY » Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:26 pm

All opposition would look fwd to playing the Crows come finals time, especially under Craig, easy winners!
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Re: crows choke

Postby Footy Smart » Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:34 pm

but I'd rather be a better team in 3-4 years, when Geelong's weakened, so we're at least a chance to win the flag.



That is why your club will go no where well said idiot. The facts are Craigy has done very well with the squad he has been given and he has developed some great kids who under other coaches would have failed and been lost.
I would much rather support a team that doesnt execpt mediocrity like your mob who drink to much port river water.... In 2 or 3 years time the crows will have a much better squad than Port because our young lads will have played in finals while your yongsters are used to having a few beers on saturday when Septmeber comes around.

Well said footy_mad10

GO CROWS
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Re: crows choke

Postby JK » Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:53 pm

mal wrote:Craig has about the 13th worst list and finishes in the 8
Not a choke
Just the form working out
He gets the best outa his ordinary team list during the monor round
Other teams can lift a notch Adelaide usually cant in finals


Very much agree with that Mal, I guess the only thing that muddies the waters for me, is that the Collingwood team sheet of yesterday probably didn't have 24 names rated among the best 8 ... Take out Thomas, O'Bree, Pendlebury, Davis, Cloke, Swan, Fraser, Medhurst and you're left with a pretty long list of kids that aren't household names, yet they play with so much energy and honesty and hold their nerve away from home.

Im not pointing the finger at NC, but I think the battle of the two lineups yesterday was pretty even, home crowd swings things in Adelaide's favour, but it looked to me that he got out manouvred by one of the master coachs.

Just an opinion, not a dig at either team.
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Re: crows choke

Postby footy_mad10 » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:26 am

Footy Smart wrote:
but I'd rather be a better team in 3-4 years, when Geelong's weakened, so we're at least a chance to win the flag.



That is why your club will go no where well said idiot. The facts are Craigy has done very well with the squad he has been given and he has developed some great kids who under other coaches would have failed and been lost.
I would much rather support a team that doesnt execpt mediocrity like your mob who drink to much port river water.... In 2 or 3 years time the crows will have a much better squad than Port because our young lads will have played in finals while your yongsters are used to having a few beers on saturday when Septmeber comes around.

Well said footy_mad10

GO CROWS


Sorry about my facts regarding straight sets, I made a mistake.

But, can you tell me which of your "great kids" is going to be your McLeod/Goodwin/Edwards/Riccuito???? I don't think you can...

You have Bock and to a lesser extent Porplyzia. There is no way Vince, Maric, Douglas, Knights, VanBerlo, Stevens or anyone else is going to hold your club in good stead for the next decade.

What I was saying was, Port had a great year last year, this year was terrible, and yes we probably gave in too early. However, we have Boak, Salopek, Chad and Kane Cornes, and a few others, who will be great players for the better part of the next 6 years.

It is my opinion, and just an opinion, that I believe Port will be more successful in 3 years time, than the Crows will be, whether that is a Premiership I don't know.

I don't doubt that NC has done a good job with his list and injuries, however he will not get to a GF let alone win one with his shoddy gameplan being so defensive minded!
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Re: crows choke

Postby Footy Smart » Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:30 am

footy_mad10 wrote:
Footy Smart wrote:
but I'd rather be a better team in 3-4 years, when Geelong's weakened, so we're at least a chance to win the flag.



That is why your club will go no where well said idiot. The facts are Craigy has done very well with the squad he has been given and he has developed some great kids who under other coaches would have failed and been lost.
I would much rather support a team that doesnt execpt mediocrity like your mob who drink to much port river water.... In 2 or 3 years time the crows will have a much better squad than Port because our young lads will have played in finals while your yongsters are used to having a few beers on saturday when Septmeber comes around.

Well said footy_mad10

GO CROWS


Sorry about my facts regarding straight sets, I made a mistake.

But, can you tell me which of your "great kids" is going to be your McLeod/Goodwin/Edwards/Riccuito???? I don't think you can...

You have Bock and to a lesser extent Porplyzia. There is no way Vince, Maric, Douglas, Knights, VanBerlo, Stevens or anyone else is going to hold your club in good stead for the next decade.

What I was saying was, Port had a great year last year, this year was terrible, and yes we probably gave in too early. However, we have Boak, Salopek, Chad and Kane Cornes, and a few others, who will be great players for the better part of the next 6 years.

It is my opinion, and just an opinion, that I believe Port will be more successful in 3 years time, than the Crows will be, whether that is a Premiership I don't know.

I don't doubt that NC has done a good job with his list and injuries, however he will not get to a GF let alone win one with his shoddy gameplan being so defensive minded!


Mcleod, Goodwin, Edwards all have had indifferent years. They havent been in our best all year and we have still won enough games to finish 5th so i say the young group as a whole has carried the load well. From what i saw on saturday Mckay is a going to be great and vince will develop he cleaned your mob up in the first show down.... Vanberlo will continue to develop he has had a few 30 plus possie games and has been released a bit more Dangerfield will be given opportunities, Douglas is classy and has had a solid year but has just fallen off a bit lately, Maric, Tippet, Moran have shown patches of what is to come. IMO reilly should be in the team before knights as he uses the footy better and can kick goals. Cant wait to see Taylor Walker up forward and whoever we add to the squad. Lets not forget
Douglas
Tippet
Maric
Mckay
Moran
Vince
Are all around or under 22 and have games under there belt and finals eexperience now.
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Re: crows choke

Postby Footy Smart » Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:34 am

Constance_Perm wrote:
mal wrote:Craig has about the 13th worst list and finishes in the 8
Not a choke
Just the form working out
He gets the best outa his ordinary team list during the monor round
Other teams can lift a notch Adelaide usually cant in finals


Very much agree with that Mal, I guess the only thing that muddies the waters for me, is that the Collingwood team sheet of yesterday probably didn't have 24 names rated among the best 8 ... Take out Thomas, O'Bree, Pendlebury, Davis, Cloke, Swan, Fraser, Medhurst and you're left with a pretty long list of kids that aren't household names, yet they play with so much energy and honesty and hold their nerve away from home.

Im not pointing the finger at NC, but I think the battle of the two lineups yesterday was pretty even, home crowd swings things in Adelaide's favour, but it looked to me that he got out manouvred by one of the master coachs.

Just an opinion, not a dig at either team.


NC wouldnt be the first coach to be beaten by mick would he???? I thought with what we have we did well this year no doubt. If you look at it Swan, thomas, fraser, medhurst etc all did something when our goodwin, mcleod, edwards, thompson did absolutely nothing. We are very similar in melbourne they would have no idea who vince, douglas, mckay are like we dont know who stanley, dawes etc are over here


Bing on next year
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Re: crows choke

Postby JK » Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:50 am

Footy Smart wrote:
Constance_Perm wrote:
mal wrote:Craig has about the 13th worst list and finishes in the 8
Not a choke
Just the form working out
He gets the best outa his ordinary team list during the monor round
Other teams can lift a notch Adelaide usually cant in finals


Very much agree with that Mal, I guess the only thing that muddies the waters for me, is that the Collingwood team sheet of yesterday probably didn't have 24 names rated among the best 8 ... Take out Thomas, O'Bree, Pendlebury, Davis, Cloke, Swan, Fraser, Medhurst and you're left with a pretty long list of kids that aren't household names, yet they play with so much energy and honesty and hold their nerve away from home.

Im not pointing the finger at NC, but I think the battle of the two lineups yesterday was pretty even, home crowd swings things in Adelaide's favour, but it looked to me that he got out manouvred by one of the master coachs.

Just an opinion, not a dig at either team.


NC wouldnt be the first coach to be beaten by mick would he???? I thought with what we have we did well this year no doubt. If you look at it Swan, thomas, fraser, medhurst etc all did something when our goodwin, mcleod, edwards, thompson did absolutely nothing. We are very similar in melbourne they would have no idea who vince, douglas, mckay are like we dont know who stanley, dawes etc are over here


Bing on next year


All fair points mate, and I agree that NC definitely wouldn't be the first to be out coached by Malthouse.
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Re: crows choke

Postby SCD » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:13 pm

I'm amazed at the crap Neil Craig is copping over this...
IMO the Kangaroos and Crows are in the same boat with this one...

Good team, no superstars to get them over the line when it matters. They play well in Rounds 1 - 22 when the footy is about flooding and running off a half back flank to create scores...

Come finals time > it becomes 1 on 1, accountable footy and to be honest the Crows don't have enough blokes who are classy enough to win the 50/50 contests on a regular basis. They are great in pack situations, but go missing when it's just them and their opponent.

Also worth noting that without Porpy and Birdman, the Crows are lacking their match winning ability.

Neil Craig has done a very good job with an average list, but without the draft picks that Hawks / Saints / Carlton or Father / Son that Geelong have had, they will continue to be a middle of the road team, well drilled and coached > but not enough skillful players to win games when it counts...
Port Power has 16 years history at Football Park...

The Port Magpies have 40 years history and the two shall never be confused or combined
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Re: crows choke

Postby JK » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:21 pm

SCD - I think most people agree with you and view the Crows the same way you have in your post.
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Re: crows choke

Postby footy_mad10 » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:22 pm

Agree with both of you, NC is not the only one to be beaten by Malthouse. I think Taylor Walker is impressive and will be good given the chance, along with Dangerfield, but from the other list you mentioned i can see 1 or 2 playing 100 games and thats it. I'm not having a crack at the players anyway, I'm having a go at NC, i think his defensive minded game plan is terrible..... you look at the top teams, the teams left in the comp now, they all have the potential to kick 20 goals, every game, and often kick 15 goals on a bad day.

Geelong: Mooney, Chapman, Lonergan, Stokes, Bartel, Ablett, Corey, Ling, Varcoe etc etc
Hawthorn: Franklin, Roughhead, Williams, Rioli, Bateman, Hodge, Crawford etc etc
St.Kilda: Riewoldt, Kozitschke, Milne, Schneider, Gram, Montagna etc etc
Collingwood: Cloke, Dawes, Davis, Medhurst, Thomas, Swan etc etc
Bulldogs: Hahn, Cooney, Johnson, Murphy, Akermanis, Welsh, Giansiracusa etc etc
Sydney: Hall, O'Loughlin, McVeigh, Goodes, Moore, O'Keefe, Bolton etc etc

I'm saying that the game has changed and you need to be able to kick goals, and Adelaide have not got the players to do so, or the Coach willing to try new things!
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Re: crows choke

Postby JK » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:26 pm

footy_mad10 wrote:I'm having a go at NC, i think his defensive minded game plan is terrible..... you look at the top teams, the teams left in the comp now, they all have the potential to kick 20 goals, every game, and often kick 15 goals on a bad day.


I think he's forced to have them play this way due to the current nature of his list ... If they played open shootout style footy, they would get massacred quite regularly and wouldn't be playing finals footy I reckon, again, just my opinion.
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Re: crows choke

Postby footy_mad10 » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:29 pm

Constance_Perm wrote:
footy_mad10 wrote:I'm having a go at NC, i think his defensive minded game plan is terrible..... you look at the top teams, the teams left in the comp now, they all have the potential to kick 20 goals, every game, and often kick 15 goals on a bad day.


I think he's forced to have them play this way due to the current nature of his list ... If they played open shootout style footy, they would get massacred quite regularly and wouldn't be playing finals footy I reckon, again, just my opinion.


I partly agree, however has NC ever tried it? Look at the Bombers, they won some games, and got murdered in others, however over the next 2-3 years they will be playing finals footy, and the style to win finals games, IMO.

I just am of the opinion that in todays game, you need to kick more than 15 goals repeatedly to play a style of footy which will win you finals.
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Re: crows choke

Postby JK » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:39 pm

footy_mad10 wrote:I partly agree, however has NC ever tried it? Look at the Bombers, they won some games, and got murdered in others, however over the next 2-3 years they will be playing finals footy, and the style to win finals games, IMO.


That is a most excellent point and I agree with you mate ... They also had the benefit of older stars like Lloyd and Lucas who are both forwards, however I agree that the goalkicking ability and experience their youngsters picked up this year around those older blokes, has been extremely important for them.

Adelaide Footy Club is run like a business so bottoming out is not on their agenda, it's worth remembering the importance in financial terms of not doing so too ... I'd imagine the hierachy demand finals participation each year from the coach, so the coach goes and does what he believes gives him the best opportunity to meet his required target, with what he has to work with.
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Re: crows choke

Postby footy_mad10 » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:56 pm

Constance_Perm wrote:
footy_mad10 wrote:I partly agree, however has NC ever tried it? Look at the Bombers, they won some games, and got murdered in others, however over the next 2-3 years they will be playing finals footy, and the style to win finals games, IMO.


That is a most excellent point and I agree with you mate ... They also had the benefit of older stars like Lloyd and Lucas who are both forwards, however I agree that the goalkicking ability and experience their youngsters picked up this year around those older blokes, has been extremely important for them.

Adelaide Footy Club is run like a business so bottoming out is not on their agenda, it's worth remembering the importance in financial terms of not doing so too ... I'd imagine the hierachy demand finals participation each year from the coach, so the coach goes and does what he believes gives him the best opportunity to meet his required target, with what he has to work with.


Agree totally, but the financial gain in making a GF (like Port last year, to my utter disappointment) is far greater than just limping into the finals each and every year. I think NC in years to come will be remembered as a coach who got his teams to the finals and failed to deliver come finals time, a choker.

Yet, if they bite the bullet and have 2 or so years out of the 8, for the long term benefit in 5 or 6 years, you never know! But NC is stuck in his ways, all be it due to the Crows heirarchy's demands!

Look at Hawthorn and Geelong 4 years back, where were they? You need a stint near the botom before success comes!
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Re: crows choke

Postby Rik E Boy » Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:27 pm

footy_mad10 wrote:
I partly agree, however has NC ever tried it? Look at the Bombers, they won some games, and got murdered in others, however over the next 2-3 years they will be playing finals footy, and the style to win finals games, IMO.

I just am of the opinion that in todays game, you need to kick more than 15 goals repeatedly to play a style of footy which will win you finals.


I reckon he did try it early on mads but when he lost a couple of blokes he had to go back to 'Plan A' as it were. I also think that the Bombers will have to wait a bit longer than you think. Adelaide has proven it won't be giving up it's spot, ditto Collingwood. Sydney and the Roos look a bit vulnerable but Essendon also have get past Carlton and Richmond in the pecking order. Throw in Port and West Coast on the rebound and you'll find that a spot in the eight might be a bit further away for Essendon than you might think.

regards,

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Re: crows choke

Postby Footy Smart » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:06 pm

Rik E Boy wrote:
footy_mad10 wrote:
I partly agree, however has NC ever tried it? Look at the Bombers, they won some games, and got murdered in others, however over the next 2-3 years they will be playing finals footy, and the style to win finals games, IMO.

I just am of the opinion that in todays game, you need to kick more than 15 goals repeatedly to play a style of footy which will win you finals.


I reckon he did try it early on mads but when he lost a couple of blokes he had to go back to 'Plan A' as it were. I also think that the Bombers will have to wait a bit longer than you think. Adelaide has proven it won't be giving up it's spot, ditto Collingwood. Sydney and the Roos look a bit vulnerable but Essendon also have get past Carlton and Richmond in the pecking order. Throw in Port and West Coast on the rebound and you'll find that a spot in the eight might be a bit further away for Essendon than you might think.

regards,

REB


Exactly REB he did try but in the end you need targets to kick to. Adelaide dont have a loyd or lucas who can pluck it from nowhere. We do well with what we have but atm there are no other options JB, buddy, roughy etc arnt going anywhere so where do you find the answer atm its not as easy as blame the game plan, blame the coach, blame the players its a process we have to go through hopefully walker, moran, tippet and sellar also can do a job or us in the future. They are all starting there careers.
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Re: crows choke

Postby Mr_Willy » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:11 pm

I thought the Crows would be up for draft picks this year, so I am more than happy with 7th!!!
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Re: crows choke

Postby leftlegger » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:34 pm

Some quality comments on this thread. Pity about the title.

I thought the crows did well.
They are very frustrating to watch, but must be commended on how far they did get this year.

Crows officionados! Would they have Daniel Kerr in their sights for 09?
Yeah, Naah,..... Bollocks!
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Re: crows choke

Postby scoob » Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:54 pm

Quote from edwards on foxsport article:

"Don't get me wrong, I think we're good enough to beat Collingwood but we weren't good enough on the day, when it counted.

then he tries to say they didnt choke??? you play a team who you should beat at home and lose due to not playing well enough on the day - so they choked - all be it on the day.
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