17th team = A loaded gun aimed at the Roos' head

[Dogwatcher]

Check out the big business brain on Smac!

[smac]

Check out the big business brain on Smac!

Wha? You need one at the moment mate?

[spiderblu]

only SANFL players get these players payments or is that industry standard ????

SANFl makes payments re juniors not AFL and have for several years to my understanding. more than happy to be corrected on this.

- the AFl committed $30 million to the QAFL two years ago."involvement on the Gold Coast, where AFL CEO Andrew Demetriou revealed the league would spend $30 million developing the game in the region over the next five years." from http://www.afl.com.au

- the AFl flies down team officials of QAFL clubs to see how AFL clubs run each year.

Brisbane had the lowest membership of any club in the AFl last year.
hey id expand on this market if i was you.

Fair dinkum this has been done to death on this board. Yeah, your right Tinpot, every single Qlder isn't interested in football at all, as you can tell by the Lions membership figures. NOT. Catch up with the times mate and have a read what everyone said about this about four weeks ago FFS.

regards,

REB

if done to death then clear out...youve missed the point on the juinor situation..

[Jar Man Out]

smac have a think about from this view.

you are the president of the SANFl.

the second best footballing league in this country.

you paid $4 million per club to join the AFl. the same amount as Sydney Wa and Queensland did.

Since then you have had the contractually agreed amount on junior funding cut by the AFL without negotation. (whilst they commit $30 mill to the QAFL)

You have SANFl clubs making half million dollars in losses per year.

you have given the afl the crows and power which provides a huge income stream to the afl per year in the millions.

you have sacrificed the sanfl comp for the afl.

queenslands kids can be raised to rookie list at any time whilst sa kids have to be drafted no matter what the circumstance.

now the afl is commiting a 2nd venture in Queensland which is going to cost mega bucks. whilst a 3rd team proposal in this state is laughed at.

does this sound fair considering both sa and queensland paid the same amount to enter the league. do you think we are getting as good a deal as queensland are. do thwy have to pay $4million for the roos >???

if not . why not ???

give the SANFL 30 mill over 5 years.see how long it takes us to come up with a 3rd team that would be profitable.

Also, the financial arrangement at the Stadium means the club that plays there gets access to all revenue / signage rights under the same financial model that applies to the strong WA and SA teams and Geelong, but doesn't apply to most Vic clubs, massively helping that club's finances. A 20,000 crowd at Geelong makes a big profit, as does a similar crowd at Carrara, but requires a much bigger crowd at MCG because MCG retains many of those rights

SACA was willing to pay $250K for AFl games to be played their. obviously of no interest to anyone.

how much of a crowd would you need at adelaide oval to make a profit.

[Rik E Boy]

only SANFL players get these players payments or is that industry standard ????

SANFl makes payments re juniors not AFL and have for several years to my understanding. more than happy to be corrected on this.

- the AFl committed $30 million to the QAFL two years ago."involvement on the Gold Coast, where AFL CEO Andrew Demetriou revealed the league would spend $30 million developing the game in the region over the next five years." from http://www.afl.com.au

- the AFl flies down team officials of QAFL clubs to see how AFL clubs run each year.

Brisbane had the lowest membership of any club in the AFl last year.
hey id expand on this market if i was you.

Fair dinkum this has been done to death on this board. Yeah, your right Tinpot, every single Qlder isn't interested in football at all, as you can tell by the Lions membership figures. NOT. Catch up with the times mate and have a read what everyone said about this about four weeks ago FFS.

regards,

REB

if done to death then clear out...youve missed the point on the juinor situation..

As you have missed my point. The JUNIORS situation and how it applies in the Qld has also been discussed at length in other threads. This means that the money the AFL has invested in Qld has paid dividends and is not a waste of money as Jar Man Out has implied.

As for the bolded bit - Fancy that. A Blue Blood not in favour of free speech.

regards,

REB

[smac]

Firstly mate, sorry for butchering your post – much easier to respond point by point as you jumped around a little.

smac have a think about from this view.

you are the president of the SANFl.

the second best footballing league in this country.

you paid $4 million per club to join the AFl. the same amount as Sydney Wa and Queensland did.

Since then you have had the contractually agreed amount on junior funding cut by the AFL without negotation. (whilst they commit $30 mill to the QAFL)

If that were actually true, I would agree it’s poor. It’s a common misconception though. Since that cut, funding to junior football has increased back to almost double what it was prior to being cut (can’t recall exact figures). Ask the SANFL where they allocate it.

You have SANFl clubs making half million dollars in losses per year.

I think that’s a scare tactic JMO, most would agree that SANFL clubs have almost never been healthier as a whole.

you have given the afl the crows and power which provides a huge income stream to the afl per year.

you have sacrificed the sanfl for the afl.

Need to move on, was best part of 20 years ago.

queenslands kids can be raied to rookie list at any time whilst sa kids have to be drafted no matter what the circumstance.

Queensland kids also have to play in the junior football programs available in QLD. SA kids get to play in the SANFL. I’d take SA every time for my kid.

now the afl is commiting a 2nd venture in Queensland which is going to cost mega bucks. whilst a 3rd team proposal in this state is laughed at.

Because we don’t fill AAMI stadium now and we don’t have another high density population base to place a team in. I think the distance between Brisbane and the Gold Coast is sufficient to create a largely untapped market. Additionally there are sufficient “Mexicans” in that area to suggest a large aussie-rules-bred population may already exist.

does this sound fair considering bth sa and queenaldn paid the same amount to enter the league. think we are getting a good deal.

if not . why not ???

give the SANFL 30 mill over 5 years.see how long it takes us to come up with a 3rd team that would be profitable.

But it would take 30 years + for that 30 million to be recovered from this market. I would think 5-10 years in the Gold Coast through increased TV rights. Who would pay more for TV rights based on a 3rd SA side?

Also, the financial arrangement at the Stadium means the club that plays there gets access to all revenue / signage rights under the same financial model that applies to the strong WA and SA teams and Geelong, but doesn't apply to most Vic clubs, massively helping that club's finances. A 20,000 crowd at Geelong makes a big profit, as does a similar crowd at Carrara, but requires a much bigger crowd at MCG because MCG retains many of those rights

SACA was willing to pay $250K for AFl games to be played their. obviously of no interest to anyone.

how much of a crowd would you need at adelaide oval to make a profit.

I can’t help you on that one.

i know what the afl is trying to do. but give the SANFL $10 mill over 5 years and it would make a more profitbale 3rd team easily.

I disagree. Profit to the AFL comes from TV rights, sponsorships and the like – less and less of their profit comes from attendance at matches. A 3rd SA team is not likely to assist the AFL in that area. A team on the Gold Coast brings new businesses wanting to advertise nationally, wanting to back their local side, new Foxtel subscriptions, new TV viewers… All things that will bring substantial $$ to the AFL.

[Jar Man Out]

junior funding is back fine ill accept that.

why dont we get $30 million put into the SANFL for the next 5 years.

So Queensland generates more money for the AFl than Adelaide Crows plus Port Power.

I dont believe you on that at all smac. Adelaide crows profits over the last 15 years would embarrass what the lions have contirbuted. crows plus power would provide millions of dollars per year to the AFL in merchadising alone.

plus how much money the AFl invested back into SANFL over the last decade in comparison to queensland. $40 - $50 million less.

sorry can not and will never accept gold coast is more lucarative than a 3rd SANFl club.

especially when SACA willing to pay a quarter of a million per game.


im happy to talk about tv rights. how would you go with your next tv rights without two sa clubs afl ???? think you get offered the same amount .

so how important is this small state in the scheme of things ???


keep discriminating against a invaluable source of income .

[smac]

Just glossed over your last post...

You missed my point slightly - the AFL don't profit from club profits, and that wasn't what I was referring to. The AFL profits from TV rights, AFL sponsorship and the like. Gold Coast will give the AFL far more of that than a 3rd SA side could.

[Jar Man Out]

I disagree. Profit to the AFL comes from TV rights, sponsorships and the like – less and less of their profit comes from attendance at matches. A 3rd SA team is not likely to assist the AFL in that area. A team on the Gold Coast brings new businesses wanting to advertise nationally, wanting to back their local side, new Foxtel subscriptions, new TV viewers… All things that will bring substantial $$ to the AFL.

so nobody would be interested in supporting a third team.

but all companies in oz would fall over themselves to sponsor the bears mark II.

you are aware how the sporting teams have gone in the gold coast of late regarding sponsors ???

[Jar Man Out]

Just glossed over your last post...

You missed my point slightly - the AFL don't profit from club profits, and that wasn't what I was referring to. The AFL profits from TV rights, AFL sponsorship and the like. Gold Coast will give the AFL far more of that than a 3rd SA side could.

for my point smac.


at what cost ?????

[smac]

I disagree. Profit to the AFL comes from TV rights, sponsorships and the like – less and less of their profit comes from attendance at matches. A 3rd SA team is not likely to assist the AFL in that area. A team on the Gold Coast brings new businesses wanting to advertise nationally, wanting to back their local side, new Foxtel subscriptions, new TV viewers… All things that will bring substantial $$ to the AFL.

so nobody would be interested in supporting a third team.

but all companies in oz would fall over themselves to sponsor the bears mark II.

you are aware how the sporting teams have gone in the gold coast of late regarding sponsors ???

In the number 1 sporting code? Hasn't happened yet. I reckon you'll find it's just what the sponsors have been waiting for.

[smac]

Just glossed over your last post...

You missed my point slightly - the AFL don't profit from club profits, and that wasn't what I was referring to. The AFL profits from TV rights, AFL sponsorship and the like. Gold Coast will give the AFL far more of that than a 3rd SA side could.

for my point smac.


at what cost ?????

Up tp them I suppose. They seem to think $30m is the number.

I can't imagine research wasn't done prior to committing those $$.

I reckon we could go 'round in circles all night on this one though. Thanks for the debate, some interesting points made. Cheers.

[Dog_ger]

What about a 20 team comp with 2 divisions...?

Division 1 could be the top 10 in say 2010

We need 4 new teams AFL.

Greed will not allow it to happen....

Maybe a stupid idea...?

A Competition like English Soccer....

[rogernumber10]

The AFL is a non-profit organisation, in that the greater money they make, the greater amount goes into the various groups they fund.

Of the rather lot of money they make, it roughly goes this way:
- 16 clubs every single year get an equal base share for being part of the comp. About 50 pct of the AFL's available money, when you count the second point immediately below.
- A number of clubs who aren't doing as well as some get extra money at various times, to get them back on their feet until things turn around. It's not permanent, as you're expected to show improvement and get off the extra money drip but is there to help.
- AFL invests into grounds and facilities -- Subiaco redevelopment, AAMI new stand, MCG Northern Stand, Telstra Dome, Telstra Stadium, Gabba redevelopment, Aurora Stadium -- to name just those within the last five years. About five per cent of the total money each year. Attendances since 2002, despite the same number of games played each year, have gone from 5.6 million to 6.4 million with better facilities, even though more games than ever are played at tiny capped venues like Marrara (1), Launceston (4), Manuka (2) and Carrara (3) compared to 2002.
- AFL invests money into junior development with grants to every single state, every year. WA, SA and Vic all happen to agree that not enough spent in their respective states, and too much in north. All up though, about 15 pct of the AFL's available money each year goes to the state assocations to get as many kids as possible playing, and to get elite kids into the AFL.
- The remaining 20 pct of the money each year is divided between a future fund (small part) and actually running the game itself with things like travel for teams, accomodation for teams, umpires, salaries etc.

The money they actually get is dependent on the competition being strong in as many places as possible and being attractive to as many different people as possible. The money has exploded in the last decade, once Qld and NSW interest has suddenly surged upwards, bringing on the bigger tv rights and more national company sponsors.
If supporters in every state are interested in some part of the competition, tv viewers in every state are interested in at least one team in the competition in their part of Australia, the game can only be stronger because revenue is pushed upwards.

[smac]

Non-profit may be correct, but they still try to maximise their income. The guts of my argument lies in that point.

[rogernumber10]

Non-profit may be correct, but they still try to maximise their income. The guts of my argument lies in that point.

Absolutely they try to maximise their income, no argument there. As you said, Vic, WA, SA and Tas, ACT and NT are all seen at the moment as producing about as much as they can (give or take a bit) in terms of players, income, supporters, viewers, sponsors etc. The areas that can produce a lot more in each of those areas are Brisbane, the Gold Coast, Sydney and Western Sydney. Brisbane and Sydney are at least giving a but but can both do a whole lot more, the Gold Coast is about to be tried and Western Sydney will be the last jump, a fair few more years away yet.

Doesn't mean that people will be happy about it, and I concede that point straight away. If the Kangaroos have enough fans, sponsors etc to keep them in Melb, they will survive there.
The problem they have is that the AFL is providing 70 pct of their money at the moment, and they are coming clearly last.

[redden whites]

3rd side in Adelaide . laughable.... I see a stadium 33% empty when the current 2 teams play each other.

[Wedgie]

3rd side in Adelaide . laughable.... I see a stadium 33% empty when the current 2 teams play each other.

I'd go watch a 3rd side, they could target real footy fans and might get a few. A lot like me can never bring ourselves to barrack for the Crows or Port and would jump at a 3rd side. I would have followed a 2nd side passionately had it been anything/anyone rather than Port.

[Hondo]

Jar Man Out

Its great to be parochial about SA and the SANFL

But there's also a bigger picture out there and what you are missing is more revenue for the AFL = more revenue for junior footy across Aust including SA

And BTW a 3rd team in Adelaide will not happen in our life times is my strong tip

It would be lucky to scrape 15,000 people at home games ..... very lucky

[redden whites]

If my business paid 4 million for a license in '91 then in a few years made million dollar profits up to now which wont change in the near future I would imagine, and got a 1/15 share of the sale of Waverley to which I had not barely contributed a cent toward I would be rolling around laughing....... Poor SANFL bought into an established product and it has been a goldmine (yes the national part in advertising and tv rights improved because of the SA missing link I do accept).