Crows v Geelong

[sydney-dog]

My rankings

Johncock 9
Bock 8
Porplyzia 7
Goodwin 7
Massie 7
McLeod 6
Edwards 6
Burton 6
Stevens 6
Reilly 6
Torney 5
Shirley 5
Gill 5
Maric 5
Jericho 5
Rutten 5
Knights 5
Van Berlo 4
Thompson 4
Griffen 3
Douglas 3
Perrie 2

[SCD]

There were a number of things that you could see live at the ground...
1) it was bloody wet as hell (trainers walking off the oval had water spraying up off their shoes)- so hence the skills from both teams.... BUT Geelongs skills were decidedly better
2) The work rate and help each Geelong player gives each other is amazing
3) Set shots for the crows continue to hurt them
4) playing blokes who are not fit... Rutten / Reilly is not the way to beat the top team
5) playing blokes who are too scared or not prepared to make a contest.. Perrie / Douglas / Griffin (and yes I like the kid) / Shirley

and finally

the umpires have destroyed this game.. 45 free kicks for the day and about 20 of them were there.. disgraceful display by those kermit idiots and really didn't allow the game to flow and it was very disappointing..

On the upside for the crows
Porplyzia and Jerico were good today for workrate and efforts
Burton again showed his 2 / 3 goal a game performance and was clearly our best forward
Stevens did a really good job on Steve Johnson, i've been critical of Stevens as a backman... still think he's a natural forward.. but he did a good job on a dangerous forward
Bock again showed how comfortable he is down back, really think he has cemented his spot back there
Johncock finally looks like decision making and speed and skills are back....

BUT in saying this it's predominately saying good on the back half.. not a good sign as to our ability to ball win a create a winning score. We had enough chances in the 2nd / 3rd quarters to hit the front at least!!

End story is no forward 50 entry in the 1st 15 mins (4 goals to Geelong) and when we were on top in the 3rd quarter we played this crap "tempo" football by our choice and had 4 goals in 8 mins kicked by Geelong in the 3rd quarter cost the Crows the match.

P.S. anyone who has given Perrie anything higher then a 0 in their rankings could only do so on him putting on the guernsy... worst performance of his career and with his inability to kick a goal or provide a contest, needs to be moved on

[haloman]

I must have been watching a different game to some of you lads.
Johncock was loose man until half time and Bomber Thompson rightly saw him as the only thing stopping the flood gates from opening. Milburn had played loose in defence for the Catters in the first half and manned up Johncock after half time. Johncock was still damaging after being manned up........... although the 2 clanger out on the fulls cost him the 10 in my book (and cost us a goal from memory). Bock..........are you guys serious. To me he looks like a fish out of water down back. I must be one of the few that doesn't see this bloke as the answer to our problems down back. His foot skills aren't up to scratch, I believe he is a little suspect overhead in marking contests and he seams to panic a little under presure. Gill.................frustrating.
I thought today was easily his best performance. I love the way he attacks the footy. I can recall 3 seprate occassions today where he came from 3 or 4 steps behind a Geelong opponent, dived on the footy and got it out to advantage. He just seams to me to be another Perrie. Tries hard when HE wants to and just doesn't have the skills of an AFL footballer. Do we really need another Perrie?
Gee wiz though the Cats were good. How good was Mooney's soccer kick back to the top of the square.
The best thing about Geelong is they are entertaining to watch. They take risks, back their skills and leg speed and attack, attack, attack.
Mumbles..........get the tape and see how it's done mate. If the Cats play of GF day I'll be watching.
Can't see who is going to beat them.

[sydney-dog]

Perrie's lack of providing a contest was very disappointing, yes he has area's in his game that are lacking but at least he could of crashed a couple of packs

On the conditions, the first qtr, the conditions were pretty good, no rain and no wind, we continued to miss targets when under little pressure, for example, Torney had a paddock and drilled a footy straight to an unmarked Geelong player, later in the game Proplyzia under no pressure, running into the forward 50 missed a leading target, even Macca blazed away couple times coming off HB under little pressure

The other big issue for me was the lack of courage to take a risk, we self destructed today

[sydney-dog]

haloman

you must of been watching a different game, Stiffy definitely did not play as a spare man down back, and he also comes under fire for being too losoe at times, my view is he shows the courage to leave his man, back his judgement and attack the footy

Stiffy had an opponent all day and was fantastic, back to 2006 form

[NFC]

How anyone can fault Stiffy's game is beyond me. Sure he took lots of cheap marks and he kicked 2 OOF, but he saved the day a number of times today and he was rock solid. Without him the result would have been much worse IMO.

[haloman]

haloman

you must of been watching a different game, Stiffy definitely did not play as a spare man down back, and he also comes under fire for being too losoe at times, my view is he shows the courage to leave his man, back his judgement and attack the footy

Stiffy had an opponent all day and was fantastic, back to 2006 form

Just threw the tape in and I can tell you definatly he was playing loose man in defence from about the 20 minute mark of the first quarter until half time. Bomber manned him up with Milburn in the second half and he still did some good things but he also coughed the ball up a few time under some more presure. Anyone can get a kick without an opponent. I don't doubt the boys ability to read the play and back his own judgement.......first class. Bomber Thompson deserves some credit for that move though. Gave Johncock something else to think about and the result was a goal from a Johncock turn over. That would have been Johncock's only poor passage of the day though, he was outstanding and clearly our best player. No one is 100% perfect I just though Bomber's coaching today was really good and deserved a plug, especially for that move. Another Cat backing themselves in, probably why they are on top of the ladder.

[Psyber]

Psyber
My thoughts on your side

We are in big trouble if Torney plays midfield, I will acknowledge his greatest quality which is courage, however he lacks leg speed and once again today, just failed to hit targets when he was in time and space...

If Torney ever plays midfield I would finally conceed the crows season is over, I rather give our future midfielders time and experience in the role

In regards to CHF, hmmm, why play a kid who has never played CHF and long term does not have the capability to do so, Maric will be a fine ruckman and could play as a third tall up forward, however a CHF he is not an never will be

My Side for next week

F Griffen Gill Edwards
HF Burton McGregor Proplyzia
C Goodwin Thompson Johncock
HB Jericho Bock Macca
B Stevens Rutten Massie
IR Maric Van Belo Douglas (Tagger)
INT Hudson Knights Torney Radar

I would like to see Griffen play as a permanant tall forward, Johncock move to the wing to try and provide some creativity forward of centre, Edwards as a small inside 50 forward, Jericho to HB, where he can use his height, speed and athletic capability to take defensive marks and break lines, finally Douglas to play more minutes in the midfield as a defensive midfielder so he can develop his game.

In regards to Gill, his pace is a huge plus, so why not play Gill out of the square and open the forward 50 to create space for him to lead in too, their would not be too many FB who could go with Gill on a lead

Other considerations, Radar to HB, Radar played this role with some success in 2005 and 06, his ability to hit targets coming off HB would be an assett

I think there are two places you need at least one hard at the ball player who goes into packs hard and can dig it out and handball quickly to faster players - around the centre bounces and around the goals - and thats why I suggested Torney and Edwards with a view to them staying home rather than trying to cover the whole ground like on-ballers. I know this is not the Neil Craig approach.

Maric?, well he is big and strong, he can take a contested mark, and at the very least he would bring the ball to ground and not be marked over. I considered Griffin there, but I think he may potentially be the better ruckman. Gill hasn't convinced me so far - mobile, good hands, poor kick, a bit erratic, potential needs working on - but from Victoria I have only seen him on TV with the Crows, and haven't seen his SANFL performances. Based on these brief sightings Maric has looked better balanced and more direct.

McGregor, doesn't convince me at CHF - too passive and unfocussed looking - I think, if he is in the team, his spot is standing in the goal square or forward pocket keeping a big defender busy and grabbing the odd contested mark. Again I concede I only see what is on TV.

[Hondo]

Could Stiffy amp up his fitness and run through the midfield next season?

[overloaded]

Saw bits and pieces only as I was at a family do, sneaking looks at the telly when I could. But still managed to see about 4 misses from set shots as well as periods of the game where we controlled the footy but did not convert on the scoreboard. On the other side, I saw quick movement of the footy and quick scoring conversions.

Geelong just too good.

I agree with the consensus I think it's time to review the list very critically and make some hard calls on guys that just won't take us any further as a team and start to re-build again.

Congratulations Hondo, you are finally with the program...

[Blue Boy]

Could Stiffy amp up his fitness and run through the midfield next season?

Its talked about often but just wont happen !!!

[Blue Boy]

Why didnt Mattner play yesterday - didnt play SANFL either !!!

[sydney-dog]

In the short term, I don't mind kenny at CHF, he is one player that can stand under the ball and take a contested mark and createw a contest

[Hondo]

I agree with the consensus I think it's time to review the list very critically and make some hard calls on guys that just won't take us any further as a team and start to re-build again.

Congratulations Hondo, you are finally with the program...

So we are clear before we declare agreement

I mean rebuilding once this season ends - Craigy largely maintained the 2006 list hoping for the team that came 3rd last season to go one better. But it's not worked out as planned so now time for some hard calls and fresh blood.

I still maintain that we should be aiming to win every game we play from here on in and not experimenting for 2008 - that's what the pre-season is for. To me, there's a big gap between finishing 8th and 9th - playing finals or not.

If results fall our way, 11 wins could even be enough to get in.

[sydney-dog]

I am not sure what re-buildingactually means, however I agree some big decisions need to be made

I would assume their would be considerable changes, both Hentchel and Biglands will be available, so at least one player needs to make way even before we start considering the trade and draft process

First their are the players who have struggled due to injury, Roo and Bode need to be honest with themselves, can their aging bodies push through a full season of AFL footy.

Then their is the younger players who after 2-3 seasons have yet to make an impression, Hinge, Meesen, Vince, Jericho are the main three that come to mind

Finally, the experience players who either lack consistency, fail to perform in big games or who may need to play second string to allow the younger players to come through, Welsh, Shirley, Doughty, Torney and Perrie all would come under my microscope

All the above players would be on the table for trade, maybe one other, that player is Hudson, given the return of Biglands and the need to keep playing Maric and Griffen,not to mention Tippett waiting in the wings, Hudson may be a trade option, he is yet to resign and may see a return to Melbourne beneficial to his ffotball career. Lets be honest, the Saints, WB, Carlton and Richmond are all struggling for big men

[GWW]

Hudson is a quality player SD i agree, but at age 30 i'd be very surprised if any other club would be interested in him. Could happen, but i'd say unlikely.

[sydney-dog]

Hudson is only 28

Considering, Carlton, Richmond, WB, and Tigers all have young list he may be ideal

Also need to remember the Saints were forced to recruit both Clarke and Gardiner, both mature age recruits because the ruck stocks were thin, you would expect Clarke to retire while Gardiner is still to make his come back from injury, so you would expect the Saints to be on the market for some back up, Hudson is a lot younger than Clarke

[GWW]

Hudson is only 28

Considering, Carlton, Richmond, WB, and Tigers all have young list he may be ideal

Also need to remember the Saints were forced to recruit both Clarke and Gardiner, both mature age recruits because the ruck stocks were thin, you would expect Clarke to retire while Gardiner is still to make his come back from injury, so you would expect the Saints to be on the market for some back up, Hudson is a lot younger than Clarke

Good point, SD, i was going by the fact he was born in 78 so would be 30 next year. You're right he could be traded but i doubt it would be for a quality player, or a decent draft pick, more likely would be a 4th rounder, or whichever club whos interested may just try to get him in the pre season draft. But yeah i can see where you're coming from.

[sydney-dog]

you might get better than a fourth round pick, depending on a clubs need for a ruckman

[overloaded]

Hondo, the time is now to find out who really wants to be part of our future - not in the preseason it is too late. We currently have too many passengers. Our list is ageing and some tough decisions need to be made.I think the following players need to show something or face the inevitable....

Perrie - for obvious reasons, cant kick
Riccutio - may be the greatest crow ever but have not got our $500,00 worth out of him this year, hard to see him worth his salary ever again
Stevens - would struggle for a B grade game in SANFL IMHO
McGregor - shown little in an injury plagued year
Douglas - not up to AFL standard
Welsh - best years are beyond him, flashes in and out of the game too much
McLeod/Edwards - rumours have it there is still tension between these two that has not helped the team this year

Any others???